Start every day with praying to be saved from lustful obsessions for today.
And daily phonecalls, amigo, are a vaccination against lust, however long it lasts, and then you make another call.
Also, I second Alex's take on taphsik, although it does work, it is not an ideal to strive for.
Mottel

I really do relate.
I used to make outright sh'vuas that I wouldn't look at or search for untznius images on the internet for X number of days, months. That was the extent of the sh'vua, because I knew that that much I could keep. Guard and most of the others are against these sh'vuas because they're dangerous, but they worked for me up to a point (it didn't help with shmiras eynayim in other settings, and it actually made the intrusive thoughts worse.) Once I found this site and discovered the true nature of my problem (addiction), and began working the steps, truly surrendering my lust instead of holding on to it and fighting it, my sh'vua expired and I no longer felt the need to renew it. I've lived without a sh'vua for over 3 years now, B"H, still taking it one day at a time.

I was browsing the forum, and I feel like I might have ended up relating to this:
Gevura wrote on 31 Jul 2012 03:37:


And so, if I do anything like my slips of the past few days, I will reset the count in order to drive home the seriousness. Because, apparently, I have not hit bottom.

Have a pleasant day,
Meir

Funny how making that commitment has given me a sense of freedom. Today was wonderful, so far. IY"H the rest of the day will be wonderful too.
Good evening!
Meir

That's beautiful, Meir. Good night.

BTW, calling someone counts as recovery work even if you don't get to speak to them, because it still puts the disease on notice that you remember about him and are doing something to innaculate yourself from its obsession.
Kal v'choimer, leaving a message with a quick update: It's me, still sober, my current struggle is this and that, have a sober day.
It's great help for the recipient as well, k'muvon v'gam poshut.
Just thought I'd share this with you...
Have a sober day,
Mottel

Hmmm.... Do you think he was talking about anything in particular... This sounds familiar...
OOOHH! You wanted me to leave a message next time? Sure!

Hatzlacha!
Meir

I was wondering how it was possible for me NOT to lust at the people I dated. Every time I date, I didn't lust. This is new to me- I lust at who I look at. I was wondering why I wasn't...
Then I saw Dov's post, and now I understand much better.
Dov said:
"My point is this: we do not have lust problems over one whom we are busy loving right now. If you are really in recovery, then living is oseik bimlachto - sexy dressed women are just a distraction to the business you are really involved with right now. So you will walk past it. She is none of your business, for you have other business. Just like the farmer. He sees the intercourse - but it means something else to him because he is busy. You can see the women but they mean something else to you - because you are busy going somewhere and thinking about something else."

So, basically, I was too busy getting to know her to lust- it would've been too distracting.
Interesting that it happened subconsciously, though...

My father raised a fascinating point last night. He asked how it would be Muttar for frum male photographers to photograph women's dancing. This is an extreme case- as an addict, I would say it's impossible to focus on the job in such a situation, but who knows? Maybe non-addicts who are focusing on the job can handle it! I sure hope they all asked a she'ailah first...

Have a pleasant day!!
Meir

Meir, you (and surely, Dov) are so right. thanks for reminder.

I could never be such a photographer, BTW. It would just be hubris for me to take such a role, and that would prevent Hashem from helping me. He works that way, you know. Our gayvoh pushes Him out of the way - Chaza"l say this, not me: Docheik raglay haSh'chinah - kal v'chomer it does not let Him in to begin with.

Nu, but like RT says so well, some apparently can do it, and do it successfully.

There was a guy - a really nice guy - who used to attend my homegroup SA meeting many years ago, who was a professional DeeJay. Sweet 16 parties, weddings, Bar and Bat 'mitzvas', you name it.

He never got sober.

Nu.

dov wrote on 09 Aug 2012 23:58:

Awesome story, how come we didn't hear it 'til now? ;D

oy wey, what did I say?

If you mean that:




well... I am just wondering (and I think I heard You, reb Dov, that your were mepakpek bedovor ze as well (unlike r. Tversky)) why people should be categorized as addicts after they've experienced a couple of falls.

I never said that real addicts should not go to this meetings.

And I know that I wouldn't be matzliach with such a profession (photographer). I dont think THAT is toluy on addict - not addict.
and I am also bichlal not sure if chza"l would allow to mate animals beyadaim.


p.s. Did this boy (DJ) die? or what do you mean with "he never got sober" ?

RT wrote on 10 Aug 2012 10:50:

The attached is "Chazal" Avodah Zarah 20b

Yep, I saw this gemore, I am speaking about our generation.

Dont think nowadays this sevore of "oysek bemelachto" is shayach anymore.

To me it wouldnt.

Why do you ask, chaver? Do you happen to have a bull in your backyard that is having a tough time getting the job done? I mean, if this is not a shayloh lemayseh, then how is it any better than lusting?

And "Torah hee, velilmod ani tzorich!" is a poor, poor rationale for a sexaholic - or probably for anyone who likes to look at porn and masturbate, even if he is not an addict. "Torah hi" was what led the Kadosh R' Akiva under the bed of his Rebbi during sex...could you or I do that without ending up masturbating (or wanting to)? It'd be disgusting and completely assur for many reasons. But for R' Akivah it was the right thing to do!

So forgive my sharpness, please. If you have a cow in trouble, then keep searching this sugyah to your hearts content. But I'm leaving it to the farmers...

BTW, Q: what does a Jewish cow say? A: Nuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu.

OK, a little stale, but not spoiled ;D