Hi guys,
I need some help. Tomorrow I don't have school. Although I did M, I barely managed to stop myself from looking at P today. The vow I made to pay $20 every time I did in this month has really helped. However, this leads to a new problem.

You know that feeling you for the last hour of a fast. That desire for food that is so great that you know that when you are able to eat again that you will eat way to much. I feel that way about the P. I just know that when the fine is removed that I will not be able to stop myself. I will end up locked in my room with P of hours, undoing all the readjusting this month has caused. I could make another vow to pay $20 or $10 every time I look at P next month, but it was so hard this month that I fear I will run out of money. I only have a little money left and if I lose it then I may brake my vow.

I don't know what to do. I am not sure if I go tomorrow P free. Even worse, the next month could be a disaster if I do/don't remake the vow that made this month a success. Does anyone have any advice?

--some_guy/Elias/Eliyahu

If the vows are working then you should definitely continue them.

If the problem is that you're worried about running out of money then maybe for next month you can try a different punishment, but make sure it hurts as much as this one or it won't help.

Also like you said, make sure to renew the vow before then end of this month or it's an almost for sure fall.

About tomorrow, don't worry about it.Now isn't then so there isn't a point in thinking about it, just focus on staying clean tonight and tomorrow you'll worry about being clean then.(and if tomorrow is too big to worry about then just worry about the first half of the day during the first half, and the second half when it comes.

You may also want to start thinking about working on the masturbation part also, most people find it easier to work on them together.

I hope this helps, keep us posted

I'm not a big fan of the "vow" thing. Either is Dov. you can read some of his recent posts here guardyoureyes.com/forum/19-introduce-yourself/205629-hello-everyone?limit=15&start=30#207528 . It seems like it's just a way to "hold your breath" so to speak, and is a distraction from real recovery. It is not a long term solution. It's more like a temporary band aid. What tools are you using for recovery?

I like it though...
it's not a cure all, but it's a good pitch to have in your repetoire...
like that occasional knuckleball.
(DARN IT! What has HAPPENED to RA Dickey? He's stinkin up the joint!)

Thank you everyone for the help. I have not fallen today in any way. Today has actually been so much better than yesterday. Its probobly because I didn't even M today. Yesterday I did so the desire to M and lokk at P was so much greater. People here always quoting this, but I am not exactly sure where it is from or how it goes. "Man has a small organ. If he feeds it it will hunger. If he starves it it will be satisfied."

About my vow problem. I think that the route cause of my addiction is that I started M to cope with depression and stress created elsewhere. Now the stress is caused by M, making a cycle. I think that if I make it impossible to do this than I will be break this cycle. I just have to stop. I have decided what to do.

On condition that I do not regret this vow by the 11:59 May 31, than for the month of June of the year 2013 I must put $10 in a tzedakah box every time I look at P and prick finger with a needle every time I intentionally M.

--some_guy/Elias/Eliyahu

On a diffrent note, I read a article on this website that triggered me. Can I ask someone to reword it so it may not trigger anyone else?

if it's a post then report it to the moderator (button on lower right corner), no one will get in trouble he'll just change it.
Otherwise try The guard at eyes.guard@gmail.com.

some_guy wrote:

What will happen once you "break this cycle"?

Hi gibbor120,

When I break the cycle, I have some ideas on how to cope after I stop M. I am seeing a therapist, I am going to exercise on my bike and I have almost stress from my grades. Before I was so worried about my getting into college. Now that I have decided to go to a yeshiva, I don't have to make honor-roll every term every year anymore. In a true twist of irony, although I have stopped trying so hard, I have still made honor-roll every term. I think that if I can break the cycle, my new coping skills will help keep me clean for long periods at a time.

--some_guy/Elias/Eliyahu

I fell today, but I will be fine. Once the next month's vow takes effect I am sure I will be able to go for longer streaks. Also, I want to explain the rules to the vow so that the Yetzah Hara has absolutely nothing to say.

1: Only M that results in E requires a prick of the finger.

2: If I M or look at P, than leave the room and M or look at P again, then I must pay two penalties. This applies even if I leave and enter the same room within a millisecond or if a knuckles-breath of a limb leaves and enters the room. If I begin to M and then leave and enter the room and continue to M, then I must prick two fingers. If I begin to M and then leave the room and continue to M, but stop myself before E, then I am not penalized in any way (this exception does not apply to P and will be counted as looking at P twice).

3: If I am reading/watching something that was not created with the intended to arouse, but it does arouse me anyway, I can wait 5 minutes for the feeling to pass on its own. If it does not pass after 5 minutes, I must leave the room. If I stay it is considered looking at P.

4: Anything that happens while in a sleep deep enough that talk is impossible is excused.

5: Thoughts are not punishable in any way.

6: A prick of a finger is preformed by piercing the skin deep enough that any amount of blood exits the body through the pierced site.

7: If I run out of money and I look at P, than I must prick every finger, thumb, and space between two fingers and thumbs once.

8: Any person over 18 years of age that tells me to stop pricking my fingers in a face to face meeting, then any and all situations requiring a prick of a finger become permitted.

9: A prick of a finger must happen to the top of the finger or at least a nails-breath down the finger. Pricks between two fingers can happen on any site that is above the palm, below the knuckles and touchable by the two fingers in question. If one of the fingers is a thumb then the third requirement is unnecessary.

Dude...I'd stick with kenassim like "saying 10 tehillim" rather than physical pain.

LIKE: IT'S ALREADY BAD ENOUGH TO FALL--AND THEN TO REWARD THE DEPRESSION BY HURTING YOURSELF?

Also, though thoughts aren't punishable in anyway, it is still important to try controlling them, though that can be tough.

KOT! I love you Elias! You are a great person.

(also, it is important to not rely on one method alone, but several methods. TaPhSiC is great, but I think a long term-solution that deals with perfection or other factors that have caused the problem in the first place are important too.)

Though I am only 17, and not 18, DON'T HURT YOURSELF LIKE THAT!

(Also, why should the age of the person telling you that matter)?

some_guy wrote:


Sorry, but this is not recovery, Elias. I who respect you a great deal say: It is just plain nuts.

You know I love you, chaver, and have no reason to say anything negative to you other than true concern. And I suggest that you do not do this plan. And worst of all, it will not work, for it makes no change in you at all, except to connect your sweet lusting with physical pain. You will create a monster, not a sober man, this way.

And here is the last thing: Have you spoken clearly about it (with all the details) to your Rov/Rebbi? With anyone sane besides you? I bet my bottom dollar that you have not.

Hope you choose a better plan, or get real help. Call me if u like.

Hopefully,

Dov

You guys are right. I regret that vow, so now it is void. I vow that if any time during the next month I M, than I must say 10 tehillim and if I look at P than I must put $10 in a tzedakah box.

--some_guy/Elias/Eliyahu

That's progress, but in my opinion, TaPhSiC should also focus on stuff before the fall, such as:

If I take a 10 minute walk while listening to an audio shiur 30 minutes or less before falling, I will only have to give $5, but if I don't, I have to give $50. Or something like that. Good, you have the component AFTER the fall--but I don't think the requirement to say 10 tehillim is enough to dissuade you BEFORE the fact. You need something for BEFORE you fall

You see: the point of TaPhSiC is not to serve as THE method of recovery--it is a technique of fighting urges if and when they arise. It is not a way of attempting to give ourselves motivation to never act out again, as that can be daunting.

Best of luck! KOT! As always, listen to what Dov has to say!

I am going to add a condition for before I fall later. I want to go slowly so it is easier to adjust. If I try to jump right in and fail, then I may abandon it all.

On another note, I have been clean since Sunday. I feel great!

--some_guy/Elias/Eliyahu