snibril wrote on 25 Aug 2009 14:54:


Right... and it will make it worse...

R' Zelik Epstein once explained why the YH keeps getting frightened every R. H. by the shofar... doesn't he get our trick already?
He answered, that the YH knows, better than anyone, what a fake he is. So he is the ultimate insecure person, knows his end is destined, he eventually will be exposed. So it really doesn't make a difference that the last 3000 year's shofar was not the 'real thing'. This years may be it...

So frustrated at work, keep thinking I may as well give in, and then reminding myself that's not going to help anyway. 

As Mr.B would say: "GEVVVAAAAALLLLLLLLLLDIIIGGGGGGGGGGGG"

Snibril, I continue to be amazed every time I read another thread and watch how someone so nicely implements the handbook material. The handbooks really contain a wealth of information, and I'm so glad you've taken full advantage of it. You're an example to the rest of us!

2B

Day 5:

I fell last night (to be precise, this morning).  The good news?  Since I've committed myself to recording my ups and downs for 90 days, come what may, I'm carrying on from where I left off.  I think my new goal will be to try and add just one more day with each 'run' - I don't mean I'll give up after that, but if I can at least make it that far, it will give me a sense of progress.

What actually annoyed me more than the fall itself was the amount of time I wasted, and the fact that I was up till so late - I'm not good at surviving on so little sleep.  You'd think my common sense would kick in (and it did, just too quietly), but then we all know that the Yetzer Hora has little time for common sense...

I'm most worried now about whether/how to discuss this with the girl I'm dating.  (I know there are several threads on this theme already.)  I really feel like it's going well with her, but I'd feel that I was being totally dishonest with her if I didn't let her know what was going on with me.  I can't see myself proposing if I've got this huge skeleton in the closet, but I'd have to be able to convince her (and myself) that I'm doing all I can to change.  I wouldn't be surprised if I've (subconsciously) sabotaged previous dates with other girls because I haven't felt able to open up to them, but haven't been willing to commit because it's not fair to them. 

Sorry to go off-topic a bit!  I actually installed K9 last night, but (unsurprisingly) found other sites that weren't blocked.  I'm going to add the sites I was on to the blocked list, but I definitely need to look into accountability software.

As you write that you have already gone through the many threads on the topic, this quote from Sissels Bok might add some perspective on how to view your "skeleton in the closet": "While all deception requires secrecy, all secrecy is not meant to deceive." In my opinion, that says it all.

I won't comment on your fall. I'll leave that for Berdichev to say "FELL SHMELL" - a line which is so frequently used on this forum.  :D

2B

I think it depends on the purpose for the secrecy.  If it's to defend someone else, then it's for the good.  If it's just to defend yourself, then I'm not so sure.  Moreover, if keeping it secret is going to hurt someone else, then I can't see how it can be good. 

Not simple at all. Rabbi Twerski actually wrote me once that people have a responsibility to let their prospective date know. Yikes. Yes, this can break the chance, but if you let them know when you're doing really well and have made great progress - well, if they're the RIGHT ONE for you, they will RESPECT you even MORE.

Then it's a matter of defining when I'm doing 'really well and have made great progress'? I'm not sure how to judge that.  And I don't know whether it'll take a week, a month, or a year.  I guess it's a personal feeling? 

Also, I'm worried about using my prospective kallah as a confidante - ok, that's great once I'm married, but beforehand seems like I'm laying the pressure on them to help me stay sober, when that's not their responsibility (ok, other than kol yisrael arevim zeh la'zeh).  I'd love to have someone like that I can trust and confide in, but it doesn't seem fair on them.

Day 6:

Fell again last night, although not as badly as the day before (I didn't go all the way, and didn't waste as much time on it).  I think I need a geder which will stop me staying up so late in front of the computer - that will simultaneously help me to stay sober *and* to get to bed earlier!  Maybe a neder not to use the computer/watch TV after 12 for any reason?

I spoke to another SA leader yesterday, and learned about what goes on at the meetings.  I'm hoping to attend my first sometime next week.

snibril wrote on 27 Aug 2009 08:35:


I just thought of an idea--maybe plug your computer (or at least your monitor) into a Shabbos timer.  It will shut off all by itself.  (this could help as a reminder, but something more might be necessary to keep you from just turning it back on).

Dear Snibril,

1.) K9 has time controls - set it up so that you are unable to use the computer so late.

2.) Using the computer late at night is not a good idea in any event.  See, e.g. www.webmd.com/sleep-disorders/news/20030620/nighttime-computer-users-may-lose-sleep.

3.) Whether to tell your prospective Kallah is a sensitive issue, and may depend on whether you have a normal y"h or whether you are a true addict.  Also, if you want the person to marry you, you need to be 100% committed to stopping.  One way to demonstrate that is to have some very serious sobriety under your belt before broaching the subject (again, if it is deemed appropriate that you tell her).

Day 7:

I had a 'trough' day yesterday (as in, I was at the bottom of a trough), and fell several times, but to paraphrase a popular expression, "what goes down, must come up"    I think I've moved on a step since the last time I tried this - I'm not going to let my falls bring me down, but will try to use them to push me up.

I've finally got my filter set, and will probably be adding to it as the days go by.  Thanks for your suggestion about time controls, Kedusha - I will definitely consider it.  As regards my prospective kallah, I don't have very much sobriety under my belt yet, but I am making much more definite steps towards sobriety than I've made before - I hope that when I manage to get to an SA meeting next week, this will be further enhanced.  I'm not jumping into anything anyway, so I've got some time to work on myself (and our relationship).  Right now, I'm trying to focus on the ideas that:

- I need to work on one day at a time
- Every success moves me forward - a fall also moves me forward if I use it in the right way
- I need to daven more! 

You have the right mindset, You have all the tools ready(filter , Meetings, this site)

Hashem just wants to hear YOU cry out for him

GO for it

Bestrong88

Hi all,

Well, the 90 day thing didn't quite work out....

On the other hand, I'm making definite progress:

• I'm 2 weeks sober, which is my longest in a long time.  Admittedly, I feel like this time of year I have that extra impetus of RH and YK to help, and so I'm worried about the future (i.e. Cheshvan!), but at least for now, I'm doing well.


• I've joined an SA group, and have been to two meetings so far.  I haven't spoken to many members on the phone yet, but I'm working my way through the handbook which is a LIFESAVER!


• Yesterday I told my closest friend about it.  He told me that he's also had problems in this area, and we're hoping to support each other through chizuk and chavrusa.


• I'm booking some time today (I hope) to speak to a local rav about how best to progress.  I'm not very familiar with him myself, but I've been told he's been able to help other people with similar problems, so I hope he can advise me.


• I decided that I had to tell my prospective kallah.  I was already talking to her about other things that I thought I needed to be honest with her about, to do with my general frumkeit, and I finally managed to get this out too.  I explained that I'm doing SA and I'm on this forum (albeit infrequently, sorry!), and that I'm speaking to this rav soon.  I think she's willing to be supportive, although she needs some time to think things over and absorb what I was saying.  At any rate, I didn't feel I could keep her in the dark on this any more, especially since I want things to work out with her.  I just hope I didn't tell her for the 'wrong' reasons e.g. to get the guilt off my chest, to 'boast' about how I'm making progress, etc.

On a related note, can anyone give me the name of the sefer that I've seen bandied around these boards?  To do with shmirat habrit?  Or are there several seforim people can recommend?  My friend and I would like to learn through one together.  Thanks!