I joined this Chevra erev pesach two years ago. I am in the exact same place as I was two years ago. It is for this reason that visiting this place makes me sick.. I am sick of reading about the endless slipping falling etc. It feels like I am holding up a mirror to my own life. I tried really hard for a year.  I got no where. For the sake of honesty I would like to explain what I mean when I say that I have gotten no where. Through this site especially dovid Chaim, I have learned to love my wife and kids. I am a great father. I have learned to deal with people in a calm manner. I am happy. I have gotten no where in terms of sobriety. I act out just as much as before. I am not motivated to stop. I therefore say that I have gotten no where..
Chag kasher vsameach

I think you used to have another name.

I have been here I think three years and I still fall and sometimes fall bad. I do not think I got noewhere. I think I have bcome freeer of the pull of lust but I do share the feelings of frustration.

I wonder if you have been living the finals steps of the program?


Truth is I have been putting off calling guys from the calls. I will b'n do it and report back.


also see my new thread

www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=5249.0

Want to add that I would rather brainstorm than be frustarted. maybe some old timers can share if they have found longer term sobrity and what are the keys to keeping it and what helps you lose it?

Gevura ShebYesod wrote:

Test mega quote

admin wrote:


TEST MONSTUH QUOTE!!!!

TEST SMILEYS

Our memory is a filter. I filters out what it doesn't want us to remember and leaves us with the parts that he wants us to remember. There is a famous sex addict that says that we never remember all the bad smells accociated with the addiction. In my case I remember all the frustrations of the year that I was working very hard on curbing the addiction. I remember the insomnia, the frustrations, the falling. I had forgotten that it was the most beautiful year of my life. Although there are things that have stayed with me until today, but the tefilah and the connection to hashem were something unbelievable. I grew in bitachon and I breezed through my nisyonos.
At the same time I couldn't stand having to associate myself with this Chevra. The phone calls, separate email, etc were so difficult to maintain. I needed to sneak around and make calls with no one in earshot. At least sneaking around the Internet you choose the time. I don't thing I have pinpointed the reason exactly but the bottom line is that I can't get into this again? It's just to hard.

It seems to me that you are looking very hard for every reason to justify your not being a part of the forum. You dont need to explain yourself, unless you feel guilty about it. If that's the case then deal with your guilt, but please dont attack the integrety of GYE ! Plenty of us have been helped and owe our lives to GYE. It's too hard for you? Maybe you shouldnt be so secretive about it, a major step for me was coming out into the open and sharing my problem with my wife. I will agree that the attitude of talking about slipping as if it isnt a big deal bothers me as well, but I am told that it is important for the addicts recovery process. so i deal with it. I think everyone takes out of GYE what they need and what works for them. For many the hischayvus is a necessity, for me the posting and chart was a life saver. My mixed up friend, Do whatever you want but dont knock a system that is obviously good for many people.

Gesh, i don't think he was knocking the site, he's just saying it's too hard for him to participate.

Mixedup, i feel for you. I understand the frustration of not having a perfect recovery, and of getting burnt out after being on a high of great shteiging in davening and ruchniyus. i too have gone through such ups and downs. But it's important to understand that the struggle is what counts, and every little bit of improvement is a big madreiga. Perfection is not necessary, or expected. Just do what you can, and hand it over to Hashem.

Hatzlacha and Keep On Trucking!

Gevura!

i would think the program would suggest you ask G-d to give you strength to be active in the program

There are two approaches to understanding how the twelve steps works. The big Book would have you understand that you higher power actually saves you. Other people seem to think that the main point is that by giving yourself over to a higher power you are letting go of your ego. Since our main problem is our ego by letting go of our ego we loose the addiction.
The first approach is philosophical difficult for a frum jew. We believe that only hashem runs the world. How can a six hand statue work to save the Buddhist. One of the cornerstones of the program is the belief that I can can be saved through the program. A alcoholic Buddhist that was saved through the program was saved through his higher power. For me to believe that is a serious avera.
The other approach is that the higher power didn't actually save him. He just just got out of his ego. This means that basically all the higher power stuff is just a mind game. By believing that the higher power can save me I save myself. This is also problematic because I still have to believe that the Buddhist was saved by his higher power, and besides I'm too smart for mind games.

Mixedup wrote on 25 Apr 2012 14:01:


I don't understand HOW the steps work, and I don't really give a darn about that or about recovering Buddhists.

Tachlis, I know that, when I DO the steps, they work.

I did hear once that, in a sense, idolators are better off than athiests because at least they believe in something beyond themselves.

Also, G-d is patient and gives people lots of time to turn around. The program literature is filled with people who chose the group, or an oak tree in their back yard, as their Higher Power. Eventually, they came to believe that G-d is really their higher power. There are lots of ba'alei aveirahs that should have been struck dead by lightning years ago, but they continue to live, and have fulfilling, productive, and successful lives by, at least, some standard. We could have the same discussion about Kosher food, or Shabbos observance, or Taharas Hamishpacha, or about Shaatnez, or about salting your hard-boiled eggs before eating them. So, to keep things in perspective, this question isn't really specific to recovery and, therefore, is not really a reason to discredit it.

So, even for a frum Jew, I don't think this is a problem. I think that such "problems" are often just excuses in disguise.

--Elyah

I don't understand how they had recovery if I can't believe in there higher power. As a frum jew I cannot believe or use a system that requires belief in idolatry. Even if it works I am still prohibited from believing in it.
It is preferable to be a addict than use a syst that requires belief in idolatry.

If the early alcoholics believed on a tree and it worked that is a very sick system.

There is no requirement to believe in Idolatry.

Also, the tree story was not exactly the mainstream. The Big Book doesn't write about pagan druid practices of communion with the trees out in the woods somewhere. Nowhere in the steps does it say, "And you must boughed down to trees and be saved!"


--Elyah

If the idol worshipper was saved through belief in his higher power, and I believe in that system than I believe in idolatry. It's that simple sorry. Every person that does the twelve steps picks for himself a higher power according to what he needs a higher power to do. That isn't idolatry?