Rav Wolfson's vort empowers us.
It makes us feeled beloved by Hashem.
We don't need to CREATE great tefilos.
We ARE the tefila.
So, even if we are in middle of s'e and realize we just dropped the ball on _ number of brachos.... we can just start concentrating  RIGHT THERE, and do the best we can with what remains.
Hashem was listening till now and is still listening, so lets make the most of it.

Another time, he explained the zemiros "svachin asader tzafra v'ramsha..." 
We will say praise to Hashem in the morning and evening, to you,  Hashem, who is holy, who created all souls... holy angels, humans, animals of the field, and birds of the sky.

The Gemara says, if the early ones were like angels, we are like people, and if the early ones are like people, than we are like animals....

The zemer is refering to the generations who praise Hashem. The 'morning' generations of old, and the 'evening' generations, when things are cloudy and misty and confusing. Yup, today.

They all praise Hashem. the early generations... the angels. The later generations, the people. and the latest generations... the animals, the birds.

We are like the birds... chirp chirp, but not much between the ears. Birdbrains, in ruchnius at least.

But guess what, which one do you think Hashem values most?

A mashul:
The King had a reception. There were philharmonic orchestras playing complicated compositions. There were singers with harmony that titillated the ears. The guests were impressed... to a degree. They had seen this before.  8)
But there was a show that knocked everyone off their feet. There were animals that assembled and bellowed... yup... praises to the King. Birds came, and unbelievably, performed songs of praise to the King.
:o
This was unprecedented, unheard of before.. what a show!

THAT was the King's greatest pride!
:D

Beautiful kutan. Thank you. And I love that zemiros  I hope hashem, does/could love it when we praise him.

hey k and t and anyone else who is visiting us here.

ive been thinking about these tefillos a bit. i am not giving up, but i have some questions.

these are thoughts ive had before, and im curious to know what you think and anyone else can feel free to chime in.

you see, i was thinking while davening on R"H that I can daven for plenty, but how many zchuyos do I have?
Do I really want HKB"H to grant me all these little things? Am I deserving of them? Honestly, I may not be.
Our forefathers at numerous times expressed fear or concern, because they thought they might not have zchuyos left.
Who am I to be asking HKB"H for so much so many times?

Also, do I know what's good for me?
HKB"H knows what's good for me. Maybe it's supposed to rain on my head and I am supposed to get drenched for some reason I may never understand. Maybe I'm not supposed to get this job. I feel and think that it might be more appropriate for me to turn to HKB"H and ask for whatever He knows is best for me. I don't want to sound haughty and make like I'm the one who knows exactly what I need and what is good for me.

All that being said, last night before I went to sleep, I was so ready to act out and I was going to run back to my computer to post, but I really needed some sleep and I could also turn to HKB"H, so I did. I asked to fall asleep quickly and to wake up for slichos, which I did. I didn't even know what time the minyan was starting and I got there on time. They went a little too quickly for me, which is frustrating, especially since I was in a yeshiva minyan just yesterday. I did get there
, though, and I'm clean. Thanks Man!! (that's a figure of speech for anyone who doesn't chop, clearly I don't think Gd is a man, we are created b'tzelem Elokim, though...)

Sturrlge, I think 7up answered your question today on a diff thread. I'm gonna look for it. Basically , if this would wrk on zchusim, I wouldn't be alive today, I think. Everything hashem does is chesed. Just living , breathing, giving me enough food, a job, a family ,a gue family  and more... Do you think I can ever repay? Never. He just gives me all these things cuz he loves me . So , when I daven I tell him , that I know I dont deserve it at all, but  can he give me a matnas chinom? Just cuz hes my father and he loves me..no other reason.


I think we actually dont. How can we? Its seems like the correct thing to do is to ask for whatever is good for me right now. But I always add, that not only should it be good in gds eyes. But in my eyes too. Im not an angel. I cant know everything. I want to see its good now. This reminds me of a vort I heard on RH. Why do we say Lshana tova umesuka? It would seem repetitive. Isn't good, sweet? But in reality, EVERYTHING is good. Every single thing hashem does is l'tovah. Yet, lmaaseh, we don't see it. So we ask that we should have a not only 'good' year, but 'sweet' too.

TrYiNg wrote on 23 Sep 2009 06:26:

;D, sorry youre having such a hard time with the name...

i think i saw mom's post. and i hear, i just feel uncomfortable asking for so much.
and the second point you make as well is good. so maybe i can just ask to be able to see the mesikus badavar
and not for something specific, but im not sure i feel so comfortable even asking for that.
maybe i should be accepting of whatever it is even if it doesnt seem sweet to me.
i want to learn that everything truly is sweet even if it may not seem that way.

and maybe you can ask Him to help you zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz...

I'm loling so loud. Cant believe i actually wrote that.  ;D



Maybe. But again, I'm not angel. I'm not a tzadeikes. Who more than he knows? So I think  I do have to see the sweetness. I cant ALWAYS imagine its sweet. So I still ask hashem to make it appear good in my eyes. I'll work on this , maybe in my next gilgul.  For now, gnite

sturggle wrote on 23 Sep 2009 06:14:


Sturrgle ( ;D), you are touching on the most basic questions of tefila.

The purpose of tefila is to bring us close to Hashem. Whenever we ask for something, it is with the understanding that if He does not want it, we will not get it. The purpose of tefila is not to 'get it', it is to make us realize that it comes from Him.
The world has laws of nature that mask the Creator, at the very same time that they show Him. The purpose of tefila is to get past the mask part.
Think of it simply as the first form of hishtadlus. For some big tzadikim, this might be the ONLY form of hishtadlus to make. For us, it is usually not enough. But it is critical for us, to make us realize that our hishtadlus is just that, and that it all comes from Him.
We are not TELLING, we are not NAGGING. We are describing what we would like, and recognizing that He is the one who can give it to us.



Let's add some additional questions:
How does tefila work? Hashem, who is our loving father, surely wishes to give to us what we need. And if he does not give us something, likely He understands that we would not REALLY benefit from it. If so, then what is the point of tefila? To convince Him that we really DO need it? LOL.

Tefila is called avoda, and is in the place of karbanos. But avoda and sacrifices are giving, and tefila seems to be a shopping list of things we are asking for. What type of 'service' is that?

The source for the halachos of tefila comes from Chana (Haftora day 1 RH). Why is a woman the source of tefila?

Why is there a set list of bakashos, why don't we ask for what WE want?

There are different mehalchim, of course, but the one that speaks to me is based on mystical sources. I don't know the sources, I've heard the information from R' Yaakov Hillel, and R' Akiva Tatz.

The answer is that the purpose of tefila is to change OURSELVES, not Hashem. And there is no better way of changing a person then through what he wants.

You ARE what you want.

Its called your ratzon, and that is the source for all the decisions and actions you take.

So chazal gave us a preset list of bakashos. They want us to ask Hashem for THESE things, because they knew that these things are what we need to perfect our ratzon.

It gets deeper.

The prime benefit of tefila, according to the Nefesh Hachayim, is to ask for these things FOR HASHEM.
???
We want these things so that we can serve Hashem.

We start shmona esrai as a servant approaching his Master, and saying I'd like to have these things to be able to do my job, for YOU.

I know it sound high, not something for little us. Maybe it isn't. But it IS the ultimate goal, and knowing that may help us do it, at least sometime.

Because THAT  is the meaning of ovodah shebelaiv zu tefila. The service is training ourselves to want to serve Hashem. To want to serve Hashem with daas, with teshuva, with selicha, with geula, with refua, with parnasa, with kibutz galius...etc.
To practice wanting these things so that we can better serve HIM.

This is the sacrifice that we are making. We are giving up our petty, mundane concerns.

Ever watch ants scurry around, busy busy, but only filling their minds with with their little world... to them this is the entire universe. This is all that counts. Well, people that live life day to day, the way many of the world do, are just enlarged ants (this came from R' Quinn, who learned it from R' Shraga Feivel)

We are connecting to Hashem and saying we want to be part of His ant colony.

A proper tefila helps us get what we are asking for, because it changes US, not HIM. We become worthy  of it through tefila.

TrYiNg and Kutan (yes, with a big K ),

I hear your points and you make good ones.
Is it weird that I feel bad asking HKB"H for something?
I mean, that's just what it is.
I know to ask to be close to Him.
I know to ask for Him to give me what is good for Him.
I just don't know what any of that is and I dare not play guessing games.
Does this make any sense? ???

I got home very late last night and I was very tired and had not davened maariv yet. I asked HKB"H to help me daven, which I didn't do so well, and go straight to sleep w/o "checking" the GYE forum, cause we all know what that leads to...

Sturggle,
Thanks for the promotions to Big K, but it is not deserved... I did not create the post above, I was just sharing what I heard!
Davening for Hashem's sake is of course a madreiga, and it does not mean we need to be up to it at the moment. It just is helpful to know in what direction one is expected to go. And then, sometimes, when there is a siyata dishmaya, Hashem gives us a present and we can taste what it is like.
Regarding your questions, which I really did not address properly....
Asking things from Hashem is not like a child nudging a parent. Can I have a (fill-in-the-name-of-the-toy-that-is-currently-in-rage). Can I have a (ditto). I really want a (ditto).
That type of asking is selfish.
We ask as a form of submission. It is a meditative activity that brings us back into focus as to where the things we want really come from.
This is the simplest level of tefila, it is the aleph beis. This is what tefila is.
So, the more the merrier. A father would not mind at all if a son came and humbly said, you give me everything. You give me my entire existence, my place of dwelling, you protect and save me, I am completely dependent on you. It happens that at the moment I would like (ditto). If you see fit, would you please grant it to me?
and then end with praises...

R' Tatz related a story of a women who went to a renowned gadol to ask for a yeshua for her very sick child.
He first asked her, tell me, if you knew for sure that it is Hashem's will to have this child taken from the world, could you make peace with that?
And after much introspection, she honestly said, yes.
Well, he answered, now we can start davening.

In other words, we are not "telling" Hashem we want this and this. We must have it.  (you sometimes see people davening with extreme shuckeling, eyes tightly shut, fists clentched.... can't say for sure, but they might be doing just that... erroneously) We are saying that we are submitting ourselves to HIM, because we know He is in charge of all, and therefore requesting of Him the following. It is a complete exercise in HUMILITY. It is not an exercise for a trial lawyer!


And regarding knowing what is good for us, you are right on the mark on that.
R' Pam would often say that one should not daven for a specific outcome, but rather for 'success' in a specific endeavor... and leave it to Hashem to decide what success really is. I remember distinctly at the begining of the Iraq war, he said not to daven, for example, for the downfall of Sadam Hussein specifically, but that the war effort should be matzliach.

Of course, there are many specific things that we can daven for, such as Hashem, please grant me a safe trip to work.
and so on.

and if you don't mind, I'm going back to kutan. the big K is making it hard for me to daven properly.
:D

ok, k, you made me chuckle.
thanks for your responses.
i think ill write some more responses later.
want to process a bit.

Sturggle, I'm not sure I  understand your question. Hashem doesn't work harder when he gives you something, its all the same for him. So why do you feel bad? Besides, sometimes we don't get certain things , precisely because hashem wants us to ask for it. There is nothing sweeter to hashem than hearing his children call out to him.

Kutan, beautiful, thanks for your post.




But, we truly want these things for hashem. Nothing high about it. Think about it , isn't it what we care about most? Isn't this whole struggle about him?


what else do we need these things or anything for?

The issue of wanting all this so that we can serve him... is DEEP.

There are two wantings... in the mind and in the heart.

The two are separated by the throat area.

The throat area has the oref... as in 'am kshai oref'.... which prevents the brain from influencing the heart... unless there is a lot of work put in.

The goal of tefila, and this is a life long process, no short cuts here, is to create a razton (a magic word... the source or m'kor for everything that we do) to serve Hashem, with our HEARTS.
it is an 'avoda sh'b'lev'

and the way is through meditation with our minds, and humbleness, standing like an eved in front of his master (pre-Lincoln days). See the Biur Halacha in the Mishna Brura that suggests that missing this attitude is me'akev in the whole davening!

Knowing with the heart means it is instinctive. Its like the story of R' Moshe ztl not crying out in pain when someone slammed the door on his finger, so as not to embarrass that person.  It was not a calculated decision it was instinct.

That is Ratzon.

All this said and done, I need to report that I forgot about this whole thread completely today.

V'ata v'ata v'ata. Need to start NOW.

Gut Shabbos all...
kutan

;D
;DYom Kippur ;D
;D

I love Yom Kippur.

Interesting thing is that I've never felt so clean like after this Yom Kippur, and I also find that starting after YK my sensitivity to lust has heightened.

But being a talmid of Dov, I am not trying to figure it out.
Just keep asking Him for his handouts.
And he is still giving them, bH!

Bl'n, we will resume asking Hashem for 'pashute' things throughout the day.

kutan

I love Yom Kippur.

Interesting thing is that I've never felt so clean like after this Yom Kippur, and I also find that starting after YK my sensitivity to lust has heightened.

you are more sensitive because you are clean thats good keep it uppppppp
bbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbbb

Kutan,

You say, "Interesting thing is that I've never felt so clean like after this Yom Kippur, and I also find that starting after YK my sensitivity to lust has heightened."

I have the same feeling. I think that the the seriousness and "burden" (it was a good burden) of the Yomim Noraim made me more alert and in constant attack mode against the Y"H, and now I feel a little more relaxed, which makes it harder to fight.

Does anyone have any songs they can post? I find that when I listen to some of the songs that were posted in the past (both the freilach tunes as well as slower moving tunes), it helps me.

Nishmas