hey all, sorry i haven't posted in a while.
so how are things?  i'm currently learning in a yeshiva in israel.  the experience has been incredible and i'm having a wonderful time.  i've definitely made some good progress in my struggle.  at the same time, i'm still having problems and unable to go more than two weeks without falling.  it's kind of depressing, because i feel like if i'm only able to maintain this level in yeshiva, i have no idea what will happen when time is finished here.  idk, what are your thoughts? best!
yoni

Hellloooo, Yoni! Welcome back!
Enjoying the yeshiva? I bet it makes a big difference from china, a?
Stay with us here, we will help each other out.
Mottel

Hi Yoni!
Welcome back.  Good to hear from you.
If you're falling every 2 weeks, I'm guessing you're not following a proven recovery plan.  Consider studying and working the 12 steps, or another method.
Wishing you much success in your learning and personal growth,
Alex

re obormottel: the yeshiva is outstanding.  it's definitely given me the atmosphere i really want to be able work on myself.  iy"H i'll be here for at least a year.

re alexeliezer: i've been using the taphsic approach, keeping myself busy, etc. but it's still been difficult.  yeshiva has basically cut down the times i have problems, so it's very easy for me to know when i'll have problems.  the difficulty obviously is dealing with it when i'm. any non-12 steps suggestions?

thanks all
yoni   

Yoni, welcome back!

I'm so happy they you are having a good experience in Yeshiva. Keep up the good work and keep on trucking!!!

Gevura!

yoni wrote on 23 Feb 2012 18:32:


Yoni,

I'm going to be Jewish here and answer a question with a question.
What do you have against surrendering your lust to Hashem?

I'm not a big fan of Taphsic.  I don't think it gets to the core of the problem.  Masturbation and pornography are symptoms.  Taphsic addresses these by giving you more motivation to fight the urge to act out.  But the real problem is lust.

If you have an infection producing a fever, stronger and better fever reducers may provide temporary relief, but what you really need is an antibiotic to stop the infection.  In my view, Taphsic is like a fever reducer.  It fails to address the underlying lust.  This is harder in the long run, because you're always fighting.  Taphsic is about giving you better weapons with which to fight.

I don't fight lust.  I can't fight lust.  I've lost the fight every time, eventually.  I have admitted that I am powerless over lust.  So when lust comes knocking, in any form, my only hope is to immediately surrender my lust to Hashem and beg him to take it.  I don't want it.  I can't use it.  I wish I could.  I enjoy lusting.  But it nearly destroyed me and my family.  So I have been brought to my knees.

Now that I'm not lusting, I can resume growing.  Growing emotionally, growing spiritually, growing closer to my wife, children, siblings, friends.  Growing closer to Hashem.

I couldn't do that while I was fighting.

re alexeliezer:
every time i post a comment asking for suggestions, people say that i need to surrender my lust "addiction" to Hashem and let him do the fight for me.  i'm obviously missing something, b/c i've taken major steps to deal with my problem.  there is the taphsic vow, which i agree with you it doesn't solve the problem, it does help deal in the short term at least.  i daven every day to hashem to help me, i have fully recognized that i'm powerless to beat this on my own, i read the daily chizuk, i keep extremely busy, so what's the deal?

here, i'll give you specifics and maybe you can give me a more specific suggestion than the vague phrase "surrender."
here in yeshiva, porn is not at all a problem, and the is so incredibly packed that it's pretty easy to find an appropriate distraction when necessary B"H, the problem is at night when i'm trying to sleep and thoughts just bombard me relentlessly.  no matter how utterly exhausted i am from the day, i can expect to spend at least one-two hours a night trying to quiet my mind amidst the storm of thoughts, and there's simply nothing i can do.

i'd love to hear your assessment of the situation / non-12 step suggestions. 

Yoni,
I can relate.  Fantasy, intrusive thoughts were the biggest part of my addiction.
Here's what worked for me.  In addition to careful shmiras eynayim, I react to each and every intrusive, unwanted thought with the following tefila:

"Ribbono Shel Olam, I am powerless over lust and my life has become unmanageable.
Only You can restore me to sanity.
I turn my life and my lust over to Your care and ask You to please heal me from this illness of lust.  I don't want to lust, I only want You and a relationship  with You and Your Torah, (and appropriate attraction to my wife).  Take my lust.  Please, take my lust."

Tell Hashem I surrender my lust to You.  I don't want it.  I want Your will to become my will.

That's only 3 steps 

For the insomnia, I think about the Torah I learned that day.  I mull it over, say it in my mind very slowly.  The Y"H can't take it and puts me right to sleep.

i already do that, i find it to be only limitedly helpful though.
idk, i'm suspicious of the this whole "surrender" thing mainly because of how vague it is. you can't surrender lust the way way you'd surrender something physical. 

believe me, i've completely given up on being able to deal with this on my own but then actualizing it into behavior just isn't happening.

i have other solutions which i've found to be more effective at dealing with insomnia (thinking about Torah makes my insomnia much worse actually), but if so much as a single thought gets into my mind then getting rid of it is pretty much impossible. 
thanks for the advice, let me know what else you've got.
best and a good shabbas! 

yoni wrote on 24 Feb 2012 08:42:


I understand.  I felt the same way.  But there are many things about life I don't understand.  I got out of that rut by just doing it.  Which in this case means just saying it.  Feelings come from actions.  So I kept saying it.  It worked.  Then I internalized it.  Now I understand it.  That's the order.  Naaseh V'nishma.  First do.  Because it works.  Then understand.

That's the best I've got.  Gcd Himself.

thanks for the advice.  i'll let you know how it goes.
best,
yoni