I'm a 20 year old yeshiva Bochur here in New York. Where to begin? Everyone is suffering here on this site to some extent, and, if your reading this, kol shekain if you respond, thank you, I know personally its extremely hard to stop thinking of our own issues.

I wont bother with a lengthy story, I already once did  hat under a different user name, some of the old timers might remember, basically, I'm a baal teshuva, who left a prestigious college (this is my need for praise talking), and its been 3 and a half years since then, I'm now in a very good yeshiva, soon off to brisk. The thing is that despite what the Rosh Yeshiva or Rabbeim think of my illiuishness, my brain is fried from 8 years of p & m. I think of nothing else. It used to be that I could keep some of my life b'seder, now I barely learn,  just an illusion here and there, and most of my time is spent on p & m.

Now Brisk, then kollel, poor wife of mine... I feel most of all guilty and shameful that I will ruin a wonderful girl that has this ideal -- to support a serious learner, to have kedusha. She will give up her comfort, her natural instincts, and support me, while I'm doing  the opposite of what shes striving for.  Even if I go back to 12 steps (for the 4 th time), and get better, she will have still been supporting a lie. I'm not the kadosh that she thinks, and I cant even imagine my brain thinking of other things.

My questions are; is there success in kollel for a hardcore addict if he recovers? Even if I'm in recovery, I'm still not the pure Kollel boy she thought she married, how could I not be ashamed of myself? Is it better for someone like me to let of my dreams ( could be that its all just to get away from working, all for kavod) and go work, or could be I can recover, and learn to obsess about torah?

There are deep deep issues with me, other than this, over the things that I did, but I will reveal them later on. Thanks

Welcome!

Ah, 20 years old and you know how to learn!  A beautiful life can be yours, b'Ezras Hashem, if you make it your top priority, bar none, to become and remain clean.  Are you ready to make that vital move?

Hey. Im afraid that ill remain this negative depressed person that I am, and then I will leave kollel and not be able to even have a job. Im so lost and afraid. Sometimes, i even have thoughts of regret for learning, but I know I would have the same issues in college. I dont have ny life, I break out sometimes because of my hectic lifestyle, and that keeps me inside for days without seeing anyone and I fall even more. Your telling me I can be happy in the future in learning, if I get clean?

Well, whether you should stay in learning full time or work for a living (which is perfectly respectable and required by the Kesuba, unless your wife is Mochel; keep in mind that few people can stay in full time learning their entire life) is a separate issue that needs to be addressed even when you will, b'Ezras Hashem, be clean. 

But, first things first.  If you have emotional problems that require outside help, get therapy, or do whatever it takes to resolve them.  In addition, work on being clean, one day at a time, with the tools that GYE offers.  By doing these things, you are setting yourself up for success in marriage, and in whatever else you chose to do with your life.

I have high hopes for you.  Hatzlacha!

Thanks I get what your saying, the thing is, Its a decision now, because if i choose to work, i need to start preparing for exams (actuarial) and get in that mode. I dunno, could be they'll kick me out of yeshiva even, =/.  I guess I need to decide on my own, but i feel like dying.

You're only 20, so you don't necessarily have to start working now, even if you plan to do so a few years down the road.  But, if you stay in Yeshiva, use your Yeshiva years well - they are very precious.  And, that means working on staying clean, one day at a time.  This way your Yeshiva years will be meaningful, as well as, IY"H, any time you spend in Kollel.

Oy oy my heart goes out for ur pain. but take in mind that ur very young and have a whole life ahead of you. u seem to be very talented and have a drive to be matzliach, so dont let your past bog u down, and don't carried away with worry about the future. please look at the present and you will see light. and then a day will come and you'll look back at this struggle and feel pride how you made it work. be strong one day at a time.

A lot of guys are in your exact same boat and you need to share the pain with them.  You are not alone.  I was there 15 years ago, times are different now, but it's a very difficult stage, I recall it too well.  I ended up finding low paying work that ended up giving me a good foundation with numbers later in life, so I hear your actuarial point.  Not everyone is designed for life of learning and if you are stuck on p & m you need to find the menucha to get back your nefesh, first and foremost.  If your Rav doesn't understand the challenges of being hooked on p&m, that makes it tricky but not impossible. 

Think about this:  What would it mean to Hashem for someone who had 8 yrs of p and m due to no real fault of his own (tinuk she'nishba) who turned his life around.  Is that a lie? Is that something to be ashamed of?  Is that something that is not worth the whole olam habah of a kollel wife?  I'm not saying anyone needs to know about it, but just think you're living a lie.  If you are on the road to getting better, even if chas v'shalom there is a slip, this is part of the tshevah.  Your tikun may be worth more to Hashem than all the other guys in the kollel combined!

Get back on track.  Become the BT that you aspired to become when you started this process.  Mostly, just never give up.
Black Bigday

Here's the interesting thing - the yetzer hora is attacking you on several fronts. Nothing new there, it's his standard approach. Not only is he attacking you in the form of this disease, but alongside it comes the feeling that you're worthless, a lie. And you feel like you don't know which way your life is going, and that any girl that marries you is getting a bad deal.

Now before I even say anything, realize that if the yetzer hora is saying all that (and you he is), then the opposite must be true.

If you get clean, truly clean, why should there be a lack of kedusha in your life? Your work to move away from this garbage and closer to hashem would be the most beautiful thing to him. And here's the secret - you can give it up, and you can be happy without it.

As for your wife, you'll talk to a rebbe to decide what you should say to her, and how. And the right woman for you will respond well to what you say.

You have a beautiful life ahead of you, if you choose to grab it. As always, you need to ask your self this question - do you really, Really, REALLY want to walk away from all that pleasure?

Dudayai, I would just add one thing to the pearls of wisdom expressed above. I also very much used to have those thoughts at the age of 20, a desparate desire be clean NOW and be ready for marriage NOW. It took me a year or two in recovery but bH I am now mostly able to live "one day at a time".

This style of living is a beautiful gift from Hashem and it is the backbone of emunah. I do today what I need to do and I don't worry about tomorrow because I trust that Hashem will take care of it then. Additionally, I just don't know what tomorrow will bring, so why waste energy worrying about it.

That said, if your only 20, you just don't have to worry about your wife and whether to learn or work. The thing to concetrate it on (imho) is to seek out the help that you need. Speak to a rov or rebbe that you are close with, get some outside support and help and learn as much as you can alongside your recovery. Unless there is external family pressure to think about work and marriage, just leave it until after a couple of years of solid recovery.

Believe me when I say, real life is beautiful when you are not alone and are clean and you will get there. Speak personally and frankly to Hashem outside of tefillah and build a real kesher.

Chazak ve'ematz,

a fellow struggler,

ahm

Hi there,

Whoa, slow down there. Don't worry about the future. Get sober for today. For the next 24 hours. and then do it again tomorrow. One day at a time. This works.

You said you were in 12 steps. which program? did you have a sponsor? did you work the steps?





dudayai wrote on 16 Nov 2011 22:54:

Kedusha wrote on 16 Nov 2011 22:59:

There are a lot of wise responses, but I think this one hits the mark.  Getting (and staying) sober must be your priority - period.  All the other stuff isn't that important right now.  If you don't get sober, everything else will fall apart anyway.

You haven't mentioned why the 12 steps didn't work for you so far.  Did you work it?

Hey D,

I love to learn but cant do it all the time.  What about doing kollel part time and work part time without exams. or maybe do as I do, work in a regular job and most of the time if you can, listen to tons of shiurim on the job and have kedusha while at work. you're busy with your hands, busy hearing Torah, no time for shm--tz. 

time to stop living the lie.

sounds  to me as though you are burnt out...

one thing in my humble opinion, dont continue in kollel just because thats all you know. it feels safe to stay in a safe place, to grow you have to get out of your comfort zone.

Imagine working, being mashpia positively to other jews out in the world by being an example, and feeling happy and free.

Bottom line is, you ask ten jews, you get 15 opinions .....machtzich meshigah...

Get a Rav you trust and can be 110% open-- be honest, and follow his advice.

Thats my 2 cents from 45 years experience in all worlds.

Thank you for all the beautiful replies, I really feel better, as to answer why the 12 steps didn't work; I have been on and off 12 steps for about 2 years, and I know those books, listened in to meetings, did long 4th steps, constantly listing to audios of real aa meetings, Joe and Charlie book study, etc. Countless hours, but I never really changed.  I always felt that I never gave my will over to G-d, meaning I would be honest and better in midos, but I could see myself failing in Mitzvos, so it was as if I didnt really care about G-d, just used him for my gain, and I just cant pinpoint it exactly but I left 12 steps with the conviction that there are other ways to recover, and then went back, and so on. I also didn't like the 5 % success rate. I think Im slowly realizing that 12 steps is my only option.