I write this with the utmost respect, and I am writing this with a deep pain for me and a lot of other yidden.

The post on has been removed, that post was a quote from a work By Dr Jenny Rosenfeld, a religious woman, founder of the. Tzelem at YU and author of recently published "The Newlywed
Guide to Physical Intimacy"
The work has been of tremendous help for me and a lot of other people.
Personally I would have left yidishkiet complety if it was not for her, because I realized that if I did not flee, I would suffocate and die. BH her work, based on R Tzadok shed a new light, gave me hope and encouragement, increased my love of Hashem, I even started masturbating less.

The moderator wrote "other statements appear so far from normative Halacha and Hashkafa that I'm not convinced that Rav Tzadok actually wrote them" I ask what specifically is so beyond the pale in that post?

Most importantly the moderator writes
"The danger of quoting from unpublished manuscripts is that such quotes are difficult to verify"
Yet guardyoureyes has a video on their website www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Tips/SealofTruth.asp
I  know of a teenager who almost committed suicide after seeing that video on jewishsexiality.com, and that video can cause much more damage than that above post ever could (just ask any mental health professional, no matter how frum)
And the truth of this video is based solely on the testimony of one person,    and it is therefore impossible to verify, unlike manuscripts that is difficult yet possible.


NB kedusha writes " a number of things she is quoted as saying seem very far from a Torah Hashkafa and seem to distort Halacha as well.  For example, whitewashing the issur of holding hands with a niddah; suggesting that Penuyos go the Mikvah to minimize the issur, which the Poskim have dealt with and forbidden."

This is complety false, in fact the Dr says just the opposite, I fail to understand how a guardyoureyes admin can publicly accuse someone based on what someone wrote on a blog (I maybe wrong kedusha but did you read this on "the moderate voice" blog?)

Her is what the Dr writes "none have put this opinion into writing; and while some individuals may practice this, it is certainly not a mainstream approach. See the response of the Rivash in this regard where he states that we deliberately don’t allow single women to go to the mikvah so that they not come to engage in premarital sex"(p47)

And "After reviewing the various halakhic solutions which have been suggested for
premarital sexuality and showing why I reject each of them individually..."

Dear Baal Teshuva,

The respect is mutual - Kol HaKavod, you sound like someone who has come a long way in your Avodas Hashem.  Halevai that we would all follow your example.

The post was taken down, because it violates forum rule #3 (and, in my opinion, also #2).  See www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=1136.0.  I'm sorry for any pain caused to you and to anyone else.

BT, you have some good points... And the article about Rav Tzadok may all be true... But posting it here on this forum is too dangerous, and let me explain why. Most of the guys here are not struggling with "normal" masturbation issues like most teenagers. If they were, the article would perhaps be a chizuk to them. They are struggling with a damaging addiction that is ruining their lives. And they need to understand that breaking free is in their own best interest, not because it's assur, but because it is taking their lives over and distancing them from the real world, from their wives, kids, jobs and Hashem.... If they read this article and start to pat themselves on the back that it's normal and not such a big deal - they may not take the difficult steps neccecary to break free. They may be distracted from the real dangers inherent in their obsession.

So this article may indeed be a life-saver for some people within a certain context, and Rav Wolbe indeed says very similar things as well - to teens and mechanchim... but it is too risky to place it here on GYE.

I hope you understand.

guardyoureyes I can accept what you write my only issues is this, saying that the post violates this
"The GYE forum welcomes diverse viewpoints and creativity, provided that they are within (or at least not in
conflict with) a Torah framework"
Is very damaging to people who have been helped and comforted by ideas like the one's expressed is the post, if these ideas are seen as heretical then all the comfort, hope and encouragement falls away.

And remember just as there may be lots of people who's lives are messed up from addictive masturbation, there are also lots of teens, and older singles who's lives are messed up because of the paralyzing. guilt surrounding their masturbation.

Kol tuv

I just want a clarification: as long as something is comforting, it doesn't matter that it's heretical?
The guilt about masturbation is real, because the problem with it is real. Putting addiction on a side, there is comfort found in Toiro for those who find themselves habitually sinning, by masturbating or otherwise.
Toiv V'Yoshor Hashem al ken yoire chatoim badorech. Loi b'mes horosho chofetz Hashem, elo b'shuvoi madarkoi v'choyo. Etc etc.
This is, in my opinion, also an important distinction between those Toiro books that scare a person away from sinning, and those books (read: chassidus) that show you G-d's Love and beauty of keeping the mitzvois.
But the frame-work of getting rid of guilt and developing positive outlook on life has to come from within Toiro, not from the outside.

baalteshuva wrote on 16 Nov 2011 17:54:


You can disagree with me as to whether the post violated rule #2, but I think we can all agree that the post was the type of topic "where opinions are strong and which can easily
lead to controversy . . ." (rule #3).

See www.guardyoureyes.org/forum/index.php?topic=1136.0

Also, I'm not saying whether this is the case here, but there is such a thing as "counterfeit chizuk."  Even Chizuk must be within a Torah framework.

Kevod harav guard, if i may humbly disagree. i for one have no addiction to mastrubation and still find such an article very damaging, for the life of mine why do i have to hear that doing it once in a while is not such a problem and its human, that may very well make me into an addict knowing my track record. 

Dear SouthafricanJEW, happygrowth, confusedyid, londonbocher, Strivingforhonesty, BaalTeshuvah and Tryingtolive,

You have been on this forum and on GYE for long enough, in enough "gilgulim". (See some first correspondence over here: www.guardureyes.com/GUE/RTwerski/Can'tStop.asp)

Maybe it's time to find somewhere else to hang out?

It's not acceptable to post an article from Rav Tzadok (as strivingforhonesty), and then use a different username (tryingtolive) to say that you're new here and you read that post and it saved your life, and then use a third username (baalteshuvah) to post an open letter to GYE about how "pained you are" that the article was removed. That's not exactly striving-for-honesty, is it?

I have a feeling that your guilt is causing you to do these sneaky things, to try and convince yourself and others and that your approach is correct.

Strangely though, you're the only one who keeps coming back with these same mantras... I haven't heard anyone else on this forum espouse such views...

I wish you a lot of Hatzlacha elsewhere.

Not sure what to call you, but keep in mind that numerous hours were spent by GYE members responding to the posts from your latest alias, under the assumption that you were someone new to GYE. 

I suggest that an open letter of apology would be in order.

We have some smart detectives here.

Thanks!

It's been called to my attention that he is not able to apologize, because he is no longer permitted to post on the forum.  Striving (or whatever you want to be called), I wish you well.  Although I can't speak for anyone else, I am personally willing to forgive you for having wasted my time, but only on condition that it does not happen again.  I would recommend that everyone else do the same.

This is better than I thought....
I did spend a considerable amount of time on this, but I think it was beneficial to me in a way that it reinforced my own values and understanding of what we are dealing with.
I have been in denial of how serious the problem is for a long time, so it didn't surprise me that a fellow could hold such views sincerely. Too bad he had an agenda other than striving for honesty (we sorta picked up on it, haven't we fellas?).
Anyways, machul, machul, machul.

P.S. do you think that LordHenryWeston or whatever was the same guy too?

It was interesting for me to feel myself getting defensive at his posts, only to realize shortly thereafter that this guy was a total fraud.

Actually, I felt a lot less defensive than I would have a short time ago.  I'm learning (slowly) not to let other's views tie me in knots.  (think second step, who do we give control to?)

Thanks to all of you for responding, and saving me the trouble of figuring out how to respond.

Testing