bardichev wrote on 22 Jun 2010 22:42:

I really didn't want to start a new topic as it is contrary to the holy explicitly expressed wish of the rebbe shlita, but the rebbe always seems to talk about women who are non-tznius -- "she may be a problem". i would like to talk about women who are not a problem. who dress and talk as true bas-yisraels should, and our warped crazy minds lusts after them precisely because they seem "so holy- so pure" ^{(8th day)}.

does anyone know what i'm talking about?

Does anyone know what you are talking about? Oh boy, do I know what you are talking about. Most of the women in my corner of the planet are pure and holy and not anyone's problem but they are sooooooooooo beautiful and perfect and they have bodies exactly like the women who display theirs. Just got to keep my eyes on the floor and think about something else.

I know what you're talking about. I'm finding though that it's becoming easier to treat them as people and not lust after them. I think that if you treat them as dangerous pink elephants, that's what they'll be, but if you just treat them normally and stop imagining that there's something there, you'll be fine.
Say hello when you need to, be polite, done. Don't bump into trees because you don't want to look at the shaina meidel.

kidushashem wrote on 18 Oct 2011 00:29:


SHE's not a GIRL she's a person
SHE's not a GIRL she's a person
SHE's not a GIRL she's a person

it's not working, any tips?  ???

kidushashem wrote on 18 Oct 2011 00:29:


but there IS something there  :-[

kidushashem wrote on 18 Oct 2011 00:29:


i'm not bumping into trees- don't worry about me  ;D


[besides for once when i was on a major "up" and in the corner of my eye i saw a girl approaching so i veered off course a bit to avoid her, but then she imitated me, putting us on a straight collision course
with my eyes almost stuck to the sidewalk i attempted to move even further- but there she was again almost bumping into me. and then....
she spoke- she spoke to me and told me "good shabbos" which is when i realized that it was my sister ;D we had a good laugh on that one, but i was a bit embarrassed at having treated her as a pink elephant]

;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

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Anyone ever figured out the logic in that?


Hey, BB. And anyone else listening, I hung out for three hours yesterday with one of our "Shaindy-with-the-pretty-hat-on-her-shaitel"s (although her name isn't Shaindy). And I coined a new phrase:

I strongly relate to the idea of this thread. In a way it's much harder for me wiht tzniusly dressed women, they feel so much closer to home and thus draw out the lust in a terrible way....

Ok, so next time you come across in the street my "holy and pure" wife, pregnant, with a overloaded twin carriage, plus 2 children holding on to the side, and 3 more schlepping from behind, and you start lusting, it would be a good idea to say a prayer for her, that might help humanizing her in your eyes. (Example of a prayer “Hashem help her that the children should let her get a good night sleep every now and then”).

I relate 100% I go crazy from that also, I know Im not the only one that gets a voice in their head going "Maybe shes your future wife"

Its pretty nuts.

Ill tell you though that I feel guilty ""using" them than I would a non-tzniusdike person because I know that SHE doesnt want to be the CAUSE of someone else's sin. Ma'She'ein'Kein by the others. So that helps in a weird way

yiddish wrote on 10 Aug 2012 02:32:

Hey! Reb Yiddish Boy, Welcome. I haven't noticed you yet [maybe because all your other posts are in the married section, and if you have a problem with the fact that you're wife is tired and pregnant, perhaps you should keep it there (and maybe also help her a bit with the five kinderlach)].

But since you're a yiddish boy on GYE and have a holy and pure wife, I love you, and pray that you and your wife live together in meaningful harmony and have a great life, and let us all [solemnly] say Amen.

I never chapped this inyan of "praying for her". Lemoshol, how does that work if I encounter an image on my computer (chas vesholom!) of an immodest female, but lemayseh it's not a real photo, but more like a Photoshop creation, i.e. a figment of somebody's imagination. So whom an I praying for? (The one whe concocted the image?)

MT

I think it works for real people more. Also Ill tell you that sometimes I feel like when I pray for one of my nisyonos (hows that for objectifying...) its actually a trigger-ish experience because now I feel like we have a "connection" lol Ok so I know its crazy but it is what it is.

So maybe with this (praying technique) we can say pshat in the story of Pinchas and the Midianite:

The Torah relates that a Jewish man came forward and brought the Midianite in front of Moshe and all the Jews, and they were crying at the entrance of the Ohel Moed. And Pinchas saw and he got up and grabbed a spear, and killed the Jewish man and the Midianite...

The mefarshim ask, why was everyone else crying? Perhaps we can say that when they encountered the immodest Midianite, they cried and prayed for her. But Pinchas did not believe in that approach. He took action and eradicated the evil - and Hashem rewarded him for his zealotry.

Hmmm...

MT

Lol

I look at it more basic. They were crying maybe in hopelessness, what do we do? etc. And Pinchas was like ok enough of this nonsense Im going to DO something about this and stabbed them with the spear.

So too us we have to stop crying about our woes. OH NO poor me :'( :'( :'( I cant do anything about this .. and get UP, pick up a SPEAR for crying-out-loud and kill some yetzer hara with ACTIONS 8)

Reb MT: With all due respect. When I lust after "Malki" or "Chani" or "Esti", it's because my head is screwed on wrong, it's because I imagine that Malki is thinking, what if TZ and I could just "have it out". But Malki's thoughts couldn't be further away, she thinks TZ is a nice guy and all. But so what? Lotsa nice guys out there, she has a husband, kids, life. TZ and many other addicts don't have "life" they have themselves, their egos, and their lusts. So TZ hears Chani make a joke and shoots a smile her way, no one else "chapped" the joke yet, and TZ gets all wrapped up in the "connection" he and Chani share, which in his warped head equals "pleasure". Chani knows that TZ has a great sense of humor, so? He's a good guy.
TZ doesn't see them as "good people", he sees them as "opportunities", they need to be buttered up, smiled to, and then they're all mine...
[I don't wanna get any more graphic, in fear of upsetting Zeidy, but the oilam gets what I mean.]
Now, if TZ thinks, what can I give Esti, how can I help Malki, what are her problems, and how can I pray for her; he begins to realize that unlike him, she may have a life etc. and all his obsessing over her is just, obsession...
You write:
Machshovo wrote on 10 Aug 2012 14:48:

Exactly the point, Malki, Chani, Esti are also my imagination, if I step out of my imagination and am forced to pray for them as people, not as pixels I created in Photoshop, or as scenes I put together using Final Cut [anyone knows what that is?]. I'm forced to stop lusting, cuz hey! That's fake, No she didn't just it's all my imagination...

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