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90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less
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A platform of recovery for Jews who find themselves struggling with addictions to pornography, masturbation or other sexual problems. Post anonymously about your struggles without fear of anyone finding out who you are. Ask questions, post answers and be inspired! Get tips and guidance from the experts who moderate this forum, as well as from fellow strugglers.

TOPIC: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 66772 Views

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 27 Apr 2014 17:18 #230658

  • Dov
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I have some concrete suggestions for anyone wishing to discover with Hashem's help if he or she is a sex/lust addict or not.

First, I agree w/MBJ. If a person is not really trying other things, then it's just playing around, whining, etc. Try other things and see if they work. Trying the same thing that does not work is really just whining.

Second, and this may sound the same but it isn't: really try other things. Emphasis on 'really'. Like the Kotzker would say, the opening can be the size of a needle-eye - but it needs to be m'eiver l'eiver (through and through)...in other words, REAL. Over the years on GYE I have met dozens and dozens who have said things like y'all have here and even shreid gevalt saying "I'll do anything, anything!" - but they won't go in person to an SA meeting in their neighborhood - they won't even talk to another real sexaholic in recovery on the phone - and if they do, they will still use their fake GYE names or their 'middle' names, or they davka use a 'Google number'. Why the fear? What's the shame? I thought he was willing to do anything!? It obviously is just a 'religious problem', and getting real is not convenient.

Sure I would not post my cell# here on GYE where anybody can (and does!) read it...but I would share it with you if you email me and explain what's going on with you a bit so that I see you are for real. Why wouldn't I? It's how I got my first recovery contact person, too, 17 years ago. A guy named Jeff shared recovery with me and I took action, got into recovery with real actions - and my avodas Hashem, our marriage, and everything in my life has been different ever since, one day at a time...and I have been sober with G-d's help one day at a time since then, as well.

Who has the willingness here?

A guy who is married and still masturbating his brains out (or worse) and lying to his family and everyone and even himself and living a double life and not stopping for years...why is that not being treated as seriously as hemorrhoids would be? Sure, they are shameful and embarrassing, too - but you get help when something hurts, no matter how embarrassing it is!

If it really hurts, that is...

And that's the problem with all this religious sin-talk. It's just philosophical pain, that's all. The proof of that is that so few are willing to take real action to stop it! Only philosophical or virtually real actions, like posting from behind a virtual name on a virtual forum...and they think that's real, just cuz it's so hard to do? Gevalt.

Anyone who is interested in making the discovery we are talking abt here is invited to join a phone group in which we all drop our usernames. A group of guys only, by invitation only. Each guy is allowed on only after they are spoken with personally to make certain they are for real. Otherwise how do you know who is listening in on the call? A newspaper? Your wife? Your mother? You don't. So how could there be honesty and openness?

If all you want is information, fine. Read more advice and enjoy yourself a while longer. But that is not the derech that AA discovered years ago that works, and it is not the way any of the ba'alei mussar and tzaddikim discovered works - the way that works is real people getting real with other real livepeople about what's really going on, and sharing the answers with each other. Hence the power of the mussar va'ad over 'listening to shmoozes'. The Piascetzner Hy"d wrote about this in "Bnei Machshovo Tova", and so have many others like R' Elimelech in #13 of the Tzet'l Kotton, and it has always been the derech of the serious mussar students, as well. Get realer, not smarter.

All of us addicts have been through the pride-based phase of insisting we just need to get smarter, "to beat this thing"...till we are finally beaten down enough not to be so proud any more. Like Par'oh exactly. We like to call it 'vayigbah libi b'darkei Hashem' and other nice things...but it is really just fear-based shame and pride.

I was there for the first 20 years of my sexual acting out, and finally had enough.

If you have had enough guessing and want to do something real, just email me or PM me if you are interested and we will talk it over. I am not afraid of you and you need not be of me, either. There is no cost here and no obligation to do anything but bring yourselves to the group as all else are. We do not ask for your credit card numbers, home addresses, face-time, or religious affiliations. And I am not a therapist looking for business on the side. We are just a group of addicts in recovery b"H, sharing it as our 12th step, period.

It's called "The Desperados", we meet on the phone for an hour at lunch every Sunday and Thursday (NYC time). You will not find the access code (PIN) posted anywhere on GYE, cuz it's private. As it should be. We keep everything private, unlike things here on the forum which are kept private only by remaining hidden and virtual. Get the idea? It's a little like in-person meetings.

Right?

We are starting a new cycle in a week from today iy"H. It will be about our 8th so far.

Another concrete eitzoh is to finally open up for real with all the details and truth to your trusted Rov, therapist, etc. But it has to be for real, complete, and honest. No "zera levatola' and 'shmiras einayim' issues - just straight honesty about what you do, when, where, how often, and what's going through your mind at the time, before, during, and afterward. Then go on with him from there. It is often a first real step toward a better life (and many will suggest going back to a thing like idea #2 above).

Lots of love and best wishes,

Dov
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Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 27 Apr 2014 18:41 #230660

  • cordnoy
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I agree with MBJ and with Dov.

1...try what works, and make sure it's a real attempt. [This is a serious introspective point, for there are people that think they are doping religious things, or constantly talkin' with therapists, but really to no avail.]

2. What dov says about opening up in real time and place is crucial; I would just mellow it a bit. Go to an SA meeting (it doesn't have to be in your neighborhood). Open up to someone (even far removed from you). Take those steps slowly and carefully.

Final note: Take what everyone says here with a grain of salt (including and especially me). Someone says that you MUST know if you're an addict or not and we go ballistic! Oy! I do not know! what's gonna be? Someone claims this or that; they/we are all tryin' in someay to help. Most is from our personal experience. Not every person is the same; they hardly are. That is why a therapist, Rav or mentor is so important.

Final, final note (what happened to the 20 words or less??): I (as the mikvah thread can attest to) have opened up (and was brutally honest) to a frum therapist in Israel, to a frum quasi-therapist/friend here in my neighborhood, to many people here on GYE, and lastly joined an SA meetin' away from my neighborhood.

It was not before all those steps that I came to the realization that I am an addict (nurture or nature...who gives a @#$%?). I was an addict and am an addict, and for all probability, will always remain one. How do I survive (for I shall survive)? By focusing solely on the moment before me....not the past and not the future. Make the correct decision for now!

b'hatzlachah.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 28 Apr 2014 05:58 #230713

  • R76
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cordnoy wrote:
i did not come here because of the sin
i did not stop (for now) because of the sin
i did not become mean during my acting out
i was not depressed
it was enjoyable
the build-up was heaven
lustin' was excitin'


Definitely -- that is why it is so hard to give up. I have been clean almost seven months but I miss that time more and more. I have many different issues to deal with.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 28 Apr 2014 06:05 #230714

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Dov wrote:
In the same exact vein, lu yetzuyar that masturbating or using porn were a mitzvah for normal Yidden - it would be completely assur for me. For I am an addict. I would have come to recovery (just as alcoholics come to recovery even though drinking is not a sin) because the way I use sex and lust is gluttonous and compulsive. It messes with my sanity and my life enough that I couldn't tolerate it even it weren't assur - nor even if it were a mitzvah!


I do not know if I am an addict in that respect. I have been acting out for many years but I have not suffered in this world -- perhaps I can even be called normal by contemporary American or Conservative Jewish standards.

I do have many other problems -- I am very lonely, I am severely depressed, I am unemployed and I do not like the area in which I have PhD.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 28 Apr 2014 06:09 #230715

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lightning wrote:
Och, people, you realy make me cry!!
How the HELL should i know if i am an addict or not?????
Isn't the fact, that i'm waching pornography since im 13, tried 10000 times to stop, married and continued to watch, have a double life( from outside a ben torah), spending hours over hours and days over days mastur. , therefore causing terrible pain to my wife AGAINST MY WILL, begging to Hashem to free me from this terrible behavior or to show me a path, having even sometimes sucide thoughts, - enough to tell that i'm an addict????


I am sorry -- you are SUFFERING from this. I did not SUFFER -- I am unmarried and up to seven months ago lead a sexual life which would be considered normal by nonorthodox Jews -- I acted out about twice a week and had a large collection of magazines and DVDs -- all bought in regular shops. That is one of the reasons it is so hard for me to commit to change.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 28 Apr 2014 06:13 #230716

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Dov wrote:
Second, and this may sound the same but it isn't: really try other things. Emphasis on 'really'. Like the Kotzker would say, the opening can be the size of a needle-eye - but it needs to be m'eiver l'eiver (through and through)...in other words, REAL. Over the years on GYE I have met dozens and dozens who have said things like y'all have here and even shreid gevalt saying "I'll do anything, anything!" - but they won't go in person to an SA meeting in their neighborhood - they won't even talk to another real sexaholic in recovery on the phone - and if they do, they will still use their fake GYE names or their 'middle' names, or they davka use a 'Google number'. Why the fear? What's the shame? I thought he was willing to do anything!? It obviously is just a 'religious problem', and getting real is not convenient.
Dov


Maybe part of me does not want to change. Definitely I have some desire to change as I have been ``sober" for seven months. How can I get in touch with telephone partners?

The other issue is that it is hard to for me to talk about the wrong I am doing. It is much easier for me to talk about the ways in which I am suffering.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 28 Apr 2014 06:14 #230717

  • cordnoy
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R76 wrote:
cordnoy wrote:
i did not come here because of the sin
i did not stop (for now) because of the sin
i did not become mean during my acting out
i was not depressed
it was enjoyable
the build-up was heaven
lustin' was excitin'


Definitely -- that is why it is so hard to give up. I have been clean almost seven months but I miss that time more and more. I have many different issues to deal with.


i remember visitin' hell twice....it is not a place i wanna return to right now.
My email: thenewme613@hotmail.com
My threads:
GYE Handbook | Gibbor's Insights | GYE FAQ - Thanks Skep and DMS123456789 White Book | Big Book (Alcoholics Anonymous)

If one gives up at the first sign of a struggle, he is really not ready to be successful."
"Tryin' and doin' are two different thin's - tryin' is hopin'; doin' is succeedin'.
"The right thin' to do and the hard thin' to do are usually the same."


Disclaimer: I am not a cheerleader; B"H, there are many on the site. I am here to change myself, and with God's help, by some mistake, I might even help change others.

MY POSTS ARE NOT WRITTEN AS A MODERATOR UNLESS EXPLICITLY STATED.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 29 Apr 2014 17:53 #230845

  • tryingtoshteig
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Dov wrote:
But there is another point to be made here: The Nuclear Reset Button.

Can someone post that here? I am not sure how to do it but will goof about and try if no one else can do it.

The Nuclear Reset Button

Dov wrote:

And it may sound obvious...but it's not:

Tehillim, kedusha, and even the 12 steps with meetings, sponsors, written stepwork, and regular phone calls whenever in trouble, etc - none of them work at all if we still do not really need to stop.

See, right after we masturbate, everybody wishes they'd stop! So us frum guys suffer so much, struggle so hard, and fight tooth-and-nail (all l'Shem Shomayim, of course). But we just don't feel right, do we?

There is only one surefire way we all know to bring our dirty, yucky, painful selves close to Hashem - really honestly close:

masturbate again!

Within a minute or so we find that we are dropped cold out of lust like a rock. Brought to our humble, reeling, holy senses again like the worst cold shower in the world. It's horrible five minutes later. We become frantic to finally fly right, despondent, ready to reach out like never before..."I'll do anything to quit and not fall the next time!" See? We are brought back to our senses! We wanted nudes five minutes ago - and now, all we really want is sweet tahara! Because we masturbated and 'got it over already'.

It works every time. It's the nuclear reset button, isn't it?

After our painfully intense 'zera levatola', life and avodas Hashem suddenly and painfully makes sense again. Sure we are farther away - but at least we are in the game again! ..or so we think. The sex obsession is blown out of us, gone. Holiness is again in view, at least. Menucha...

...for about a day (maybe)

Maybe I became willing to start recovery because I got tired of reset buttons, that's all? While we are flaming addicts, there eventually comes a point at which we realize that in order for us to live successfully we do not really need to give in and end the game by masturbating (again) so that we return to our holy senses. This is a total shock to a frum porn and sex addict.

We always saw our lusting, fantasy, and sex-with-self as the opposite of our avodas Hashem...and surely, the lusting and the fantasy always are. But not so the zera levatola! So often we held our breath, counting the days till....till it built up to a crescendo of crushing tension. Then we used the good old nuclear reset button - ending the game. We just couldn't take it any more. How long can you hold your breath? Eventually, everyone who is holding their breath needs to come up for air! So we fall, R"l. "It's Game Over, I guess," the poor guy says.

But it's not really ending the game at all! It's just starting a new game!

Anybody here who has ever been addicted to computer games knows exactly what I mean, here, by "GAME OVER" just being a reset button. Think it over.

Hatzlocha using this.

(Hatzlocha using anything! )

p.s this post can be found here
"ויעזור ויגן ויושיע לכל החוסים בו ונאמר אמן" -- ArtScroll Gabbai's Handbook

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 10 Jun 2014 17:49 #233238

  • Atzmosyosef
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# Whatever it is
Look at some pointers from DOV - that guy cuts through the surface.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 18 Jun 2014 11:58 #233757

1. Affects mental health
2. Weakens moral character
3. Leads to more sin
4. Causes health issues
5. Confuses and dims emotions
6. Leads to immorality
7. Can become addictive
8. Makes you less reliable
9. Weakens and harms relationships
10. Leads to further disappointment

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 18 Jun 2014 12:39 #233758

1. It is good for your health.
2. It is good for your business success.
3. It is good for your relationships.
4. It is good for your loved ones and friends.
5. It is good for your continued success and happiness.
6. It is good protection against wicked people.
7. It is good for love, purity and to keep your good middot.
8. It is good for learning and understanding about this world.
9. It is good for improving the bad moments in life.
10. It is good for having the ability to do mitzvot properly which improves connection to G-d.

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 02 Jul 2014 14:25 #234474

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Well done anon !!!!
I really liked the way you contrasted those 10 statements.
Like the asseres Hadibros !

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 27 Jul 2014 04:36 #236079

  • Val
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It's a trick. Don't short circuit yourself! If you are married then get more creative with your wife, re-kindle your relationship with her! She is the key for you.

If you are single then don't give up on finding a wife! Re-direct your energy towards that goal.

Lastly, get on your knees and pray to Hashem! Beg and plead and cry and keep doing it over and over and over again. Be a pest to Hashem! I did it and personally received a miracle sealing against acting out that has now lasted 30 days!

Val




I love you guys and this site is awesome!

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 27 Jul 2014 16:52 #236101

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Welcome Val!!

it's great that you're here!!

Don't be a stranger, tell us about your struggles, how you are staying clean, and more!!
Yankel | My Ladder | Talking to Hashem
I'm just a dude, another guy on this bus.
Have a great day, unless, of course, you made other plans. ~ obbormottel
"Nothing changes as long as everything stays the same" ~ Dov

Re: 90,000 Reasons To Say NO to acting out.... in 20 words or less 28 Jul 2014 18:14 #236190

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Welcome Val!!

great to have you here, keep on posting and let us know how your keeping clean, the davening thing is for sure the greatest tool i guess thats whats helping you most but let us in on what else is going on,

KUTGW and KOP(praying, posting)!!!
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