Helpfyi wrote on 21 Jun 2011 16:37:
I understand your point, but what exactly do you focus on when walking in the street? the foor? that is even harder! i try to hum a tune (when really faced with a challenge i hum nesana tokef tune from yom kipper!) but i really know I'm trying not to look, how do you make it 2nd nature not to look? yes telling yourself not look is hard but just not noticing it is somewhere i'm not holding by yet.
Shevous i had a challenge to keep to the agreement so that kept me going (btw i'm still going strong on that, only slipped once with gazing since :D ) but i want to keep on going without feeling suppressed.
I'll reply in this thread, if you don't mind.
There are a few things we could mean by look, gaze, stare, ogle, see, notice, dwell upon, etc.:
(1) Seeing something
(2) Seeing something and dwelling upon it
(3) Going out specifically to see something
(4) Looking around for something to see
(1) Seeing something - we cannot help this in most cases. So how do I deal with it? If it is not appropriate, I look elsewhere, and focus on something else. Like a building, a flower, a passing car. Some people control this by controlling their surroundings (a famous Rebbe bought out the entire First Class cabin on an El Al flight, and stipulated no female stewardesses), some seem to be able to see without it being a problem. But if "normal" people go out with the intention "I will not look", it gets a little difficult. Let me explain by way of analogy:
I know (I actually do know) two brothers. Both would be useful in a fight. One goes out waiting for some anti-Semitic comment or other confrontation (he purposely wore his iPod on display, for example), so that he can beat someone up. The other brother just goes on his way about things. Which do you reckon has more fights? In theory, they are both "just walking to
Shul". Why go out looking for trouble?
On the flip-side, if someone goes through a dangerous area, it would be stupid to go unprepared - with a mobile phone, a can of mace, armor, a firearm... (depending on whether we're talking Harlem or Kosovo). But that doesn't mean that you have to wear it obviously, and go out to fight. If you focus on what you are doing, not what you will encounter on the way, you are more likely to be safe.
So we "normal" (or perverted?) people cannot reasonably control what we see. But we can work on changing how we see it (I am trying to work on this at the moment, and I fear it will take decades), and on what we do when we see it.
(2) Seeing something and dwelling upon it - this is the province of mortals, and especially those like me (us?). This is where the preparation comes in - how will we deal with it? I think this is what your question was about. How not to gaze on what's already there. This is where I employ the trick of distracting myself - replacing the thought. I can really only do this once I am aware that I am looking (not just passively seeing). Firstly, what is my purpose? If it is walking to work,
shul or home, then I can concentrate on that. If that is not enough, I can look elsewhere (as above). I found that when I do it enough, it becomes second nature, and I spend less time "dwelling". Just do it... but put the fight out of your mind. You're not fighting, you're just looking elsewhere.
But... we're prepared for a fight? Yep - I prepare for a fight, so that I don't have to. I am walking home, but have a firearm in my back pocket. Something jumps out of a bush... I point my firearm at it, and maybe shoot it dead. But not because I am going out to shoot something - it is in my way, and I am going home. It's just a part of going home. (
Art of War, SunTzu - 4:15)
Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory. I would much rather look back and say "oh, I had a fight - fancy that".
And does it work? For me, yes. But then, I have a different definition of "work". Firstly, realize where I am coming from - I did lots of really bad stuff. I still do bad stuff, by the standards of some of the people who come here - I have Internet, I watch movies... but I have come a long way from where I was. So for me, I'm happy to have the challenges I face on a daily basis. Yesterday, for example, I was "zoned out", and when I zoned back in, I had my eyes on a reflection in a window. Nu. It happens. I'm human. Did I enjoy it? Yes. Nu. It happens.
Looking away isn't what took the work, it was the "Nu, it happens" aspect of it. Believing that I am not someone who must always be perfect. Looking away, for me, is
easy. (not looking back is hard, though
![](https://guardyoureyes.com/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/emoticons/new/wink.png)
) (I mean that) (that's why I need to distract myself).
So has "it worked"? Yes. Overwhelmingly - retraining myself took (and takes) a very long time. I cannot use perfection as the sole measure of success. Instead, I can just do what needs to be done, and look back over time and think "wow, things have changed". Will I be cured overnight? No. I won't be. But I have faith that I will continue to get better.
Would the average
frum wife think "it worked" if she noticed this in her husband? Probably not - she would have him sleeping on the sofa if she noticed him looking at things the way some of us on here probably look... and this is after months of working on ourselves. And sometimes, we are harsher on
ourselves than those wives. So - has it worked? I suppose it depends on your definition of "worked".
Helpfyi wrote on 10 Jun 2011 15:40:
But we can all put it in the way it works for you, point is that not looking at all is the best protection, once you look or just happen to see, the fight is to not "shtell" on it just drop it and go on.
Yeah
![](https://guardyoureyes.com/components/com_kunena/template/default/images/emoticons/new/smile.png)
I agree
And to belabor the point - you need to replace the void left from dropping it. Both in your mind, and in your eyes. And I cannot tell you what will work for you in that regard - but it needs to be something other than "fighting" or being happy that you fought, or (
in my minority opinion) something that you come to associate specifically with the fight (rubber bands, etc.). For ADHD little me, pretty much anything else will do, as long as I am not "preoccupied with the fight" like I was when I was a teenager (with good reason, at that time).
All that said - this is what works for me, in my situation, now. I once needed to go to war with a specific bit of myself, that I feel I needed to cauterize, because it was overwhelmingly unhealthy, and needed to be eradicated. This was specifically to do with some thoughts that came to me, and I needed urgent action. It's what I referred to in my very first post on this site - even then, I waited for the thoughts to come to me, rather than walk about waiting to eradicate them. Maybe some people do need to go to war with the things that they see, or their eyes, or whatever. I just know I would go insane.