HEY GUYS I DID IT!! I DIDNT GAZE AT NOT ONE WOMEN! I HAD A COUPLE OF FIGHTS BUT WITH HASHEMS HELP I DID IT.

I did have a "wet dream" on yom tov which almost broke my spirit, but i decided that I'm going to totally ignore it and since i am ohnis i didnt let it get to me and i continued on my happy way. I could have been depressed and throw in the towel but that would have been the YH himself.

LET ME KNOW HOW YOU GUYS DID!

Congratulations!

I would like to apologize for my earlier tone.  I learnt something about myself and my perspective - allow me to share:

When I was younger, I would stand outside shul with other guys, with the specific intention of "watching the show".  And indeed, there was a show to be had.  It was the way of things, we knew it wasn't particularly sanguine, but it happened, nevertheless.  In fact, we even went to other shuls where the show was known to be particularly good, at certain times.

When you initially posted, I had forgotten about this.  Nowadays, I go to shul, without any specific nefarious mission.  When do I struggle?  When I am confronted with something.  So I do not go looking, but I see.  How could I forget that I once went looking?

If you are like I was then yes, not looking is your struggle.  If you are like I am, then dealing with what you see is the struggle.  I stand by what I said about over-sensitizing oneself (seriously - try "not looking" into the corner of a room for 5 minutes - I would go crazy!), but that is only relevant to someone without the problem of "looking".  For who I was those years ago?  "Not going to look" was what I needed!  I was already sensitized!

And thus, I apologize.  I had forgotten my struggles of the past, in the struggles of my present.  And I was insensitive to the struggles of others, which may have something or nothing to do with what I once suffered.

I have learnt how easy it is to forget the old struggles, which says a lot about why some might not fully understand the struggles of others, especially if they have never faced them.  I guess it really punches home "what works for you", and respect for others.

Congrats Helpfyi!  Perhaps you can share your technique - what worked, what didn't.  Your approach to the night incident is good koach for the rest of us.

thanks Helpfyi, your commitment thread came in handy over yom tov, it gave me an extra boost to be careful and not to take in all the eye-candy.
shkoyach!
chazak ve'amatz

TheJester wrote on 10 Jun 2011 08:02:


I'm not sure what you mean, your struggle is once you see, its not that i go "looking" i live in a development where there are women all over the place especially on yom tov, so its always dealing with "what you see". What i was trying and B"H was successful was not to "GAZE" i did see women but it stopped there, i looked away before it got to me, i kept my eyes to myself i didn't scan everyone on the street. And this that you say that its like " looking in the corner for 5 minutes", i would say just the opposite when you don't guard your eyes you feel like a slave to  your eyes, you feel that you have to look at every women in the street ind its never enough and drives you crazy. When you guard your eyes you are FREE, you don't feel like s slave you can mind your own business and be happy.  But we can all put it in the way it works for you, point is that not looking at all is the best protection, once you look or just happen to see, the fight is to not "shtell" on it just drop it and go on.

ontheedgeman wrote on 10 Jun 2011 12:11:


The technique is really that you have to have the ratzon to do it. I came to relize that i was not happy with my wife at all. After looking at all all other women where ever i go and looking at too much porn, how could i be happy with her??
So i want to have quality of life, and so do that you have to be happy with what you have. Once you realize this then you can start. You have to realize that every time a lady comes your way and you don't look they throw a party in shamyim! you have to take each test at a time, each one you pass there is a party in shamyim, each one you fail they morn and hope next time you pass. Each test that you get is to help you grow higher, like the holy words of the Steipler Gaon " We have tests bec if we would just be the same with no ups and downs then we would never get anywhere bec we would just be happy with what we have. But when we fall or get a test then we see that we need to work on our self and then we get even farther then before". 

Another tip, every time we are faced with a test, to look or not and we don't the seforim say a holy spirit enters us and it is a great time to daven bec hashem will hear us and its a great eis ratzon. With that in mind  every time i see a test coming my way i daven to Hashem, there are things we all need and we all have what to daven for, at that time of the test its like a little yom kippur , talk to Hashem tell him " Hashem i'm not looking just for you!!" with this you will be closer to him and be happier with your life and everything in it which includes you wife.

As far as my approach to the wet dream, the way i see it is that since i was being good with my eyes the YH was desperate to get me some where. He threw me this to try to get me depressed and give up. Instead i got up and said HA HA I'm gonna make believe that it never happened and continue on my way.(will do teshuva in the right time, not now) after a while i hope he will ease up but the YH has many new ways of getting us and we have to be on guard and we might falll but sometimes the test is how we react after.

i hope this helped you out.

[Moderator's note: No substantive changes were made.  I don't usually correct spelling (anymore) but I had a reason for doing it this time].

Did well with shmiras eynayim over Shavuos.  Making the extra commitment here was helpful, and I remembered it.  I took some long walks and there was definitely candy out there.  Had to take off my glasses a couple of times.  I have no doubt why I was created nearsighted.

Shteig on!
Alex

I don't know what I would do if I didn't have glasses to take off, it's a great way to miss all the eye candy out there. The driver has never asked me to take over driving the bus and there are only two things to see from the window anyway, women and girls.

everyone i'm so happy we all did great over yom tov, we should try to keep it up, if we do this long enough we wont have to take off our glasses!

Helpfyi wrote on 21 Jun 2011 16:37:


I'll reply in this thread, if you don't mind.

There are a few things we could mean by look, gaze, stare, ogle, see, notice, dwell upon, etc.:
(1) Seeing something
(2) Seeing something and dwelling upon it
(3) Going out specifically to see something
(4) Looking around for something to see

(1) Seeing something - we cannot help this in most cases.  So how do I deal with it?  If it is not appropriate, I look elsewhere, and focus on something else.  Like a building, a flower, a passing car.  Some people control this by controlling their surroundings (a famous Rebbe bought out the entire First Class cabin on an El Al flight, and stipulated no female stewardesses), some seem to be able to see without it being a problem.  But if "normal" people go out with the intention "I will not look", it gets a little difficult.  Let me explain by way of analogy:

I know (I actually do know) two brothers.  Both would be useful in a fight.  One goes out waiting for some anti-Semitic comment or other confrontation (he purposely wore his iPod on display, for example), so that he can beat someone up.  The other brother just goes on his way about things.  Which do you reckon has more fights?  In theory, they are both "just walking to Shul".  Why go out looking for trouble?

On the flip-side, if someone goes through a dangerous area, it would be stupid to go unprepared - with a mobile phone, a can of mace, armor, a firearm... (depending on whether we're talking Harlem or Kosovo).  But that doesn't mean that you have to wear it obviously, and go out to fight.  If you focus on what you are doing, not what you will encounter on the way, you are more likely to be safe.

So we "normal" (or perverted?) people cannot reasonably control what we see.  But we can work on changing how we see it (I am trying to work on this at the moment, and I fear it will take decades), and on what we do when we see it.

(2) Seeing something and dwelling upon it - this is the province of mortals, and especially those like me (us?).  This is where the preparation comes in - how will we deal with it?  I think this is what your question was about.  How not to gaze on what's already there.  This is where I employ the trick of distracting myself - replacing the thought.  I can really only do this once I am aware that I am looking (not just passively seeing).  Firstly, what is my purpose?  If it is walking to work, shul or home, then I can concentrate on that.  If that is not enough, I can look elsewhere (as above).  I found that when I do it enough, it becomes second nature, and I spend less time "dwelling".  Just do it...  but put the fight out of your mind.  You're not fighting, you're just looking elsewhere.

But...  we're prepared for a fight?  Yep - I prepare for a fight, so that I don't have to.  I am walking home, but have a firearm in my back pocket.  Something jumps out of a bush...  I point my firearm at it, and maybe shoot it dead.  But not because I am going out to shoot something - it is in my way, and I am going home.  It's just a part of going home.  (Art of War, SunTzu - 4:15) Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory.  I would much rather look back and say "oh, I had a fight - fancy that".

And does it work?  For me, yes.  But then, I have a different definition of "work".  Firstly, realize where I am coming from - I did lots of really bad stuff.  I still do bad stuff, by the standards of some of the people who come here - I have Internet, I watch movies...  but I have come a long way from where I was.  So for me, I'm happy to have the challenges I face on a daily basis.  Yesterday, for example, I was "zoned out", and when I zoned back in, I had my eyes on a reflection in a window.  Nu.  It happens.  I'm human.  Did I enjoy it?  Yes.  Nu.  It happens.

Looking away isn't what took the work, it was the "Nu, it happens" aspect of it.  Believing that I am not someone who must always be perfect.  Looking away, for me, is easy.  (not looking back is hard, though ) (I mean that) (that's why I need to distract myself).

So has "it worked"?  Yes.  Overwhelmingly - retraining myself took (and takes) a very long time.  I cannot use perfection as the sole measure of success.  Instead, I can just do what needs to be done, and look back over time and think "wow, things have changed".  Will I be cured overnight?  No.  I won't be.  But I have faith that I will continue to get better.

Would the average frum wife think "it worked" if she noticed this in her husband?  Probably not - she would have him sleeping on the sofa if she noticed him looking at things the way some of us on here probably look...  and this is after months of working on ourselves.  And sometimes, we are harsher on ourselves than those wives.  So - has it worked?  I suppose it depends on your definition of "worked".

Helpfyi wrote on 10 Jun 2011 15:40:


Yeah   I agree

And to belabor the point - you need to replace the void left from dropping it.  Both in your mind, and in your eyes.  And I cannot tell you what will work for you in that regard - but it needs to be something other than "fighting" or being happy that you fought, or (in my minority opinion) something that you come to associate specifically with the fight (rubber bands, etc.).  For ADHD little me, pretty much anything else will do, as long as I am not "preoccupied with the fight" like I was when I was a teenager (with good reason, at that time).

All that said - this is what works for me, in my situation, now.  I once needed to go to war with a specific bit of myself, that I feel I needed to cauterize, because it was overwhelmingly unhealthy, and needed to be eradicated.  This was specifically to do with some thoughts that came to me, and I needed urgent action.  It's what I referred to in my very first post on this site - even then, I waited for the thoughts to come to me, rather than walk about waiting to eradicate them.  Maybe some people do need to go to war with the things that they see, or their eyes, or whatever.  I just know I would go insane.

WOW very nice and thanks for the time writing it. I agree with all, however each person has to know what will work for him. the point that you need to fill the void after you see is 100% true i daven to hashem and say "see hashem i passed the test in this zechus please help me with etc..etc or i talk to myself and say "see i didn't need to look i lived and feel better". But when you go in the street and you know your going to encounter something to look at, your approach as to not fight i have to work on bec by me i go out with an attitude of "to look, is not me" its like if i ask you do you want a beer or a cup of wine and you choose the wine, do you feel suppressed  that you don't have the beer? no you like wine much better and say to yourself "i'm a wine guy". So to i go out with "looking is not me" approach. I think if we continue to work on it like that we'll change our out look and then we wont need to fight. Now i'm at war with it and trying to keep my streek, but i'm working to get to not fighting.