helplessjewboy wrote on 24 May 2011 00:41:


Please don't dishonor the great Ba'alei Teshuva on here, by comparing them with mere Tzaddikim!

I am sorry, TheJester.

I still haven't grasped the true meaning of Ba'al Teshuvah.

As for me, I just fell, and I absolutely hate it. I don't have money to spend on accountability software, and so I cannot stop myself from looking stuff up. I feel horrible and don't know what to do. The Rav that writes "Dear Bachur" said to occupy yourself with work.
Someone please tell me what to do.

Dear jewboy,

You're definitely on the right track--opening up to people, looking for guidance, and joining this forum.

I think, for your own sanity, it might help to look at it like this--you've gotten caught up in something, for whatever reason.  You need help to get out of it.  But there's nothing wrong with you and nothing to feel guilty about or ashamed of.  You're actually in good company.

--Eye.

helplessjewboy wrote on 27 May 2011 21:38:


That was said in jest (see my name)




Two quick questions:
(1) Have you installed the free filtering software, K9 (CLICK HERE FOR FREE WEB PROTECTION SOFTWARE) yet?
(2) Are you getting enough real-life support, which is responsive and relevant to you?

On the falling aspect - if you have a genuine desire to change for the better, and you can keep yourself striving and not getting into a depressed rut, then you will get there in the end.  Really.

If you PM me about how you manage to get around any filters that you are using, I might have an idea or two for you, on a technical level.

TheJester,

Thank you. I do appreciate the humor. It helps in tough times.
I have installed the K-9 filter from six months ago. It doesn't block everything because there are certain things that come from me. I need only slightly obscene things in order to prompt me to act out. That is my real issue. It's mostly me.
I just need something to monitor my websites and send them to a friend who has full internet access and that can call me when he starts to see the website ease towards the bad ones.
Do you know if there is anything like that?

Jew Boy

If I understand you correctly, you are saying that no filter will recognize your triggers, and therefore you need a human to "oversee" everything you do.  If that is indeed the case, I would suggest it is impossible, and you need to consider alternatives.  It is impossible, because it would probably take a full-time team to pursue and investigate everywhere you go, and whether it poses a risk.




I would also suggest that you need to have an honest think about how you see your own problem.  Something many of us (I specifically include myself here) is we say "the problem is out of my control - if only I had [money/time/friends/different parents/etc.] then it would be OK.  What can I do?!".  Are you really taking responsibility, or are you saying that you are helpless?  Either conclusion is a good one, as long as it is honest.

Tell me - what steps are you currently taking?

helplessjewboy wrote on 29 May 2011 14:11:


You've just struck gold.  The problem isn't what's out THERE, it's what's INSIDE MY HEAD.  I've got to straighten that out, and then what's OUT THERE won't grab me so much.

--Eye.

TheJester wrote on 29 May 2011 14:37:


That's the best shayloh for me to ask myself, too, every day! Thanks, Jester!

dov wrote on 30 May 2011 01:55:


My biggest challenge, in all respects, is turning the intellectual into something real and tangible.  It's an important (no, crucial) question for me, too.  It's the one I always try to avoid.

helplessjewboy wrote on 29 May 2011 14:11:


A large part of this disease for me was fantasizing.  If I would allow myself to fantasize, this would lead to acting out.  Pornography, if available, was just icing on the cake.  Actually, I now know that fantasizing is itself acting out.  Early in my recovery, everything was difficult, an energy-robbing battle.  But the hardest thing to escape were the fantasies, because they came from within.  Whenever they came, I would immediately call out to Hashem, verbally going through the Steps and asking for assistance.  In the beginning, I would have to do this 20 or 30 times a day (maybe much more, never really counted).  Here's the personal tfila I used:

Ribono Shel Olam I am powerless over Lust and my life has become unmanageable.
Only You can restore me to sanity.
I turn my life and my lust over to Your care and ask You to please heal me from this illness.
I don't want to lust. I only want a relationship with You and Your torah.

I know you will triumph. Because you really want to.

Love,
Alex

Then there's another question...

    Why are you fantasizing?  What is driving you to escape?

--Eye.

U never fantasize at all anymore?! "3 averos a person isn't saved from every day.. 1 of them is lustful thoughts" gemorra.
Not even for an extra 30 seconds or so on a stressful day!?! I aint acting out.. The stress however is huge right now and those thoughts do come. Wow, maybe if we had a thread just for checking in to keep the mind clean I'd get a 'clean thought boost'.. But indeed, I'd be VERY afraid to be 'to frum..' Some (or lots of) imperfection is always good to keep me grounded   

Serene smile wrote on 31 May 2011 02:56:


I am not safe from the lustful thought entering my mind, just as I am not safe from the images that assail me wherever I go.  Once I realize that they are there, I can choose not to dwell upon them, and push them out of my mind, and replace it with something else.  Baruch Hashem I now have a small measure of success in this regard.

My very first post on this board was about how, as a teenager, I learnt to push thoughts away.  Evidently, it emphatically does not mean recovery.  But sometimes, the most important thing is preventing the symptoms, and then working on the cause.

I believe that some people refine themselves to the point where they do not even get the lustful thoughts.  I wish I were there, but do not believe I ever will be.

TL;DR - We cannot stop the thoughts.  We can choose how to deal with them, but it might be hard, hard work.  What says Tanya on the matter?

"I am not safe from the lustful thought entering my mind, just as I am not safe from the images that assail me wherever I go.  Once I realize that they are there, I can choose not to dwell upon them, and push them out of my mind, and replace it with something else." Is basically word for word Ch 12 and 13 in Tanya. :-)

"You don't think u'll ever be there".. Sounds realistic for me too.. I don't entertain them most of the time.. But ch 27 in Tanya, just the 1st 20 lines of the chapter, says one of the most realistic 'reality checks' 'normal guys' could ever hope to see: HALEVAI BENONI. That chapter is so geared for us.. "Perheps this very reason is why we were created in the 1st place; to stuggle constantly w/the yetzer and slowly overcome it"..    Working ONLY for clean thoughts would consist of such an internal paradigm shift, beyond the one I've BH already experienced.. 

Like even right now. Just taking the time to find this page on the b berry and type it, kept some 'harmless' MZ's from coming to me. (Obviously they're all harmful, just I have no plans at all on acting on these 'fresh' ones as I sit here @ work with a few 'free' moments.. So these 'harmless' ones often seem 'harmless' even though all of our seforim say they are very harmful. They don't/haven't led to acting out BH in a looooooong time... Does that make them 'ok'!?!  I don't think so... But I aint no tzadik after all and at this point, life is stressful, but not 'unmanageable'....feedback please..