Dear tzaddik90/Special Weapons And Tactics
Thank you for you posts. I have a
question,I read in "garden of emuna" with regards to people that masturbate that "Hashem turns a deaf ear to that persons prays"(page 224)

I find this very distressing, how does it fit in to what you write?
Why would Hashem ignore someone that cries to him?

Let's say there is someone who is slowly becoming observant, he is not yet at the level to try stop masturbating yet he wants to start davening every morning, does Hashem ignore him? Should he rather not daven? What's the point of davining if Hashem does not want to listen?

Your insight would be appreciated thanks.     

Dear Baal Teshuva

I had the following insight this Shabbos. The Haftorah discusses a miracle that took place in the time of Elisha HaNavi. It begins with for Mitzoraim who were on the verge of starvation (As was the other Jews) and out of desparation decide to place themselves at the mercy of the besieging army of Aram to beg for food feeling that they had nothing to lose. Hashem miraculously caused the army to flee in terror and all the Jews were saved.

Now Chazal tell us that Tzoraas come to those who speak Lashon Hara. Loshan Hara is one of the most severe sins that a person can do, and a Ba'al Lason Hara is cut off from Hashem, his tefillos are not answered and worse.

And yet the Haftora tells us that in a time of desperation where they had nowhere to turn, not only were they answered, but they were answered first! Before all the rest of the Jews!

So you see my friend, no matter how low you fall, if you turn to Hashem He will listen.

He is always there.

baal tshuva,
good question
will b'n reply, but now must go
till then keep cardinal principle in your pocket,
Hashem never turns away a sincere cry, ever
r nachman in sichos haran adresses this

he says from gemara that we are a son of hashem, no matter what, family is family, u dont choose em
we must relate to hashem that way, no matter what happens, and he will respond in turn

the only way to talk to someone who doesnt listen is to talk louder

Thank you me3 and tzaddik90
The thing is what you people say does not seem to fit into what I read. The book "garden of emuna" is written for people in this generation, when we are all desperate, it is not some midrash that has to be interpreted

Also have you seen the movie the  "seal of truth". www.guardureyes.com/GUE/Tips/SealofTruth.asp

Tzaddik90 I think you need to explain this film firstlyi think it was made by a breslov organization, secondly this film definitely makes people think that Hashem hates them.
The guy in the film had not even heard of any mitzvot and yet he gets tortured beyond anything because he masturbated! The only explanation I have is that the person in the film did not get tortured as a punishment, after all at least according to Rav Dessler everyone is only hold accountable for his "point of free will"
Rather it is just a part of the spiritual universe that masturbation causes bad forces, thus is is similar to the age old quistion of why bad things happen to good people.

However this stills leaves me feeling profoundly confused,
The garden of emuna is talking about someone who want's a real relationship with Hashem, its is just that he masturbates. Now Hashem is our loving father why would he turn a deaf ear?
Surely Hashem loves me more than he hates masturbation?

Surely on cannot become perfect overnight surely Hashem understands this?

Hashem created a system of reward and punishment so that we can earn the ultimate reward, which is attaching ourselves and enjoying the bliss of His Essence. That is the primary system in which we function and which should be our focus in our daily lives. To do the right thing and earn our keep.

There is another system which functions simultaneously and in harmony with the system of reward and punishment. This latter system is entirely independent of our actions and is solely designed to bring creation to its purpose and perfection. We will all reach perfection through one way or another.

And everything that happens, even seeming 'punishments', are also functioning towards the goal of ultimate perfection. Can we understand the process and how the two systems mesh? usually not. But our intellect is finite and is not the final arbiter of the truth.

So while according to the system of reward and punishment it may be true that someone who is unworthy cannot have his prayers heard, according to the overarching system of ultimate perfection there is reason to override the lower system. When and if it is done is beyond our control and understanding.
וחנותי את אשר אחון ורחמתי את אשר ארחם
אם כבנים אם כעבדים

Hashem is our Father and even if a father needs to punish his son he is still concerned and anxious for his child's welfare. And if someone is improving gradually Hashem knows it and will never turn away a sincere effort.

(most of the above is from Daas Tevunos by the Ramchal, if you want more of it I would suggest learning the sefer. It is written specifically to understand how Hashem runs the world, with the dual systems of reward and punishment and ultimate perfection)

ZemirosShabbos wrote on 12 Apr 2011 15:39:


ZemirosShabbos I think i am not expressing what bothers me properly, I am talking about someone that is not unworthy, someone who is using his free will to the fullest
how can he possibly be punished?
to give a diffrent example imagin some one that is from a completly secular home. he dicides to start becoming more observant he realises that if he starts keeping everything all at once he will fail he so he dicides to start keeping shaboss first and then move on to kashrus, now who can he get punished for not keeping kosher at the present time?
just replace kashrus with masturbation.

a related problem is with this "seal of truth" film the guy says that he had not even heard of teffilin so i simply dont understand whats going on

I dont understand how "the garden of emmuna" and "the seal of truth" fit in to our understanding of Hashem. what on earth happened to tinok shenishbar?

i am asking these quistions because these things realy scare me. on the one hand i know deep down that Hashem loves me, even more than i love my self yet I get diffrent messages from things i read.

baal teshuva,

unfortunately i do not have time toanswer ur question now, maybe tonight god willing.

i will say a few things. I do not know this film, but if it makes ppl think that hashem hates them, i cannot vouch for this. of course this just may be ur subjective experience, but still, i cannot explain something that i do not know and havent seen.

in addition, i am very close with R chaim kramer of breslov research institute and other great people associated with breslov. i have learned that to their dismay, there are, as im sure u are aware, several ignorant factions who carry the name of r nachman but do not represent his torah the way that r kramer, r shechter, r m kramer, r burnshtein, or r keonig would like.

therefore, the name breslov must always be traced to which faction, and what that means to you and your rav.

Hashem does hate people, but certainly not the way that we do. There are various instances in chazal where it is taught that hashem hates s/one for something. Aside from the massive discussion involved in opening up what god's hate is truly like, what purpose does it have, how it massively differs from our hatred and for what duration does it last..., aside from this, it is not brought down anywhere in r nachman or chazal that hashem displays this middah towards s/one who sins in mtz"l.

It is true that the chitzonim will try to block his prayers, and to combat this one must do tshuva, techniques to remove tumah such as mikva, torah, sincerity, prayer, and tikkun klali.

However, there are ways to rectify pgam habris, if i recall, r nachman has over 150 pieces on this bet. likutei eitzos and sefer hamiddos.
And it still remains, and always will that God certainly does not hate him. if u do find a source that challenges this, u are welcome to post here.

I know i did not answer your question, but i did not have time to do so. Bli neder tonight i may pull out the sefarim and thoroughly check.
thanks for the question, and god willing i will be able to post again on this

there is not a known phenomena to me in what i have learned that this guy will be punished.

a person is held accountable for what he knows. period. otherwise it is a shogeg, and THAT is only if he should have been more educated and wasnt.

again, i cannot vouch for a film, i do not know its sources and havent seen it.
but i will tell u one thing-if it scares u into a negative direction, this is possul. It may even be true somewhere for someone, but not for you.

dear BT,
i haven't watched the video, partly because i cannot access Google video with my filter and also because of the very ideas you are addressing, that 'scare tactics' don't usually work for me in the long run. so i cannot talk about what is said in the video.
regarding The Garden of Emuna, i wonder if it is meant as an absolute? maybe it is the general rule but can be affected by mitigating circumstances, like if someone is working gradually. I am not an authority so i cannot judge. i know that Rav Shalom Arush's talmidim have an English website with a forum and there is a section there where you can ask Rav Arush a question and he responds (through his talmidim). might be worth looking into. www.breslev.co.il
wishing you the best in reaching a true and clear understanding
zs

from www.dovidgottlieb.com speaking about his own baal teshuva process.

Gradualism. Small steps taken consistently build solid spiritual growth. Rapid changes can cause a loss of psychological integration which can threaten the whole process. Different parts of the personality change more or less easily in different people. The enthusiasm of a new form of life often leads to identifying with those parts which change easiest, while leaving the other parts behind. Eventually the gap becomes too large to tolerate and the person feels “out of synch” with himself. Even good, honest people can exceed their spiritual speed limit. I remember one fellow who came into a summer program completely non-religious and by September was already wearing a black hat and suit. In January, already disoriented, he told me, “I daven every morning, but half the time I don’t know if I am not just talking to myself.” Another fellow learned in a yeshiva in Jerusalem with a ponytail. When he cut if off after six months, the staff was concerned – this was too soon for him.


Two types of gradualism are necessary: setting priorities among the different areas in which progress needs to be made and subdividing each area into small, manageable steps. There is no hypocrisy in not making a full transition in one “great leap forward,” despite Chairman Mao’s catchy phrase. This is true for at least two reasons: First, it is not possible! There are simply too many areas which need attention to address them all simultaneously, so priorities must be set. This is true even for those with a prior religious background. Certain matters must be left for a later occasion. Second, a hypocrite says he believes in something, but does not make a sincere effort to achieve it. Setting strategic priorities is not insincere, particularly if an immediate full transition is impossible!

fyi:
i emailed Rabbi Lazer Brody (the translator of Garden of Emuna and Rav Arush's english spokeman) the question with a link to this discussion. will let you know if i hear back.

ZemirosShabbos wrote on 12 Apr 2011 15:39:


Zemmy, will you be my rebbe (I don't mean Admo"r, I've got one of those; more like a mashgiach sort of thingie)?

That was the most moiradigge shtickel hashkafah that I've encountered in too long!

thank you!

I agree

Reb BT,

i looked up in r arush's book, saw what u quoted.
i also looked in r kramers crossing the narrow bridge, a very handy tool 4 reference

it is true. hashem turns his ear.
what i think this means is, as u know, hashem himself made a system between ein sof and us. he has varous malachim and heichalos to accept prayer.
our prayers leave our mouths, fly to the kosel, and then shoot up into wherever it is aimed at-yetzirah, briyah...
our prayer is a tracable signal-these malachim want to see who is this guy who's asking for life, parnassah...

r nachman in lik' eitzos bris says that these chitzonim, sheidim, will say :its a guy who isnt shomer bris! dont touch his tefillah.
there is an entire torah in likum torah 2 on connection between shmirras bris and prayer.

So his tefillos dont go up. sad

same thing chofectz chaim says about lashon hara in psicha to sefer chof chaim, that the hellish demon sachsucha, with 4000 eyes grabs the tefila of the baal lashon hara and doesnt let it go


so Hashem sits above all this, as president of the company

he arranged this system to funcion this way

there are ways to override the system, by learning likutei moharan in depth you can see

for example, these demons await at certain places where common tefillos like shmoneh esray will travel-says r nachman in sichos that we gotta forge a path in tefillah where they wont ambush us, by saying a new prayer in our own words-this can fly past demonic forces undetected

also, saying tehillim, the sharei orah say it can hurl these demons off the path like bouncers in a club

also, by calling to hashem with sincerity, we can override all beauricratic pathways of shamayim and send the prayer straight to the boss himself, this is the kuf pasuk in end of ashrey

also, we can start immediately the techniques to repair bris, before our next prayer that we want to tell hashem, we can learn a few minutes,  do the mik and tik klali, some tehillim AND THEN teshuva, and then say a prayer, im sure it''l fly like a f 117 nighthawk right under those demon radars, drop the payload, Hashem will for sure catch it, you sent up man, he'll send down shefa, which the pgam brisser was lacking until now

how"s that?