ur-a-jew wrote on 06 Apr 2011 20:57:


Reb Ur-a-Jew,

How about this?

Imagine a person who feels a bit sick he goes to a doctor and says.  Listen doctor, I know that you are a cardiologist and my heart is fine, but since you are a medical professional I'm sick and I need you to tell me what's wrong with me.  But my heart is fine so don't treat me for that.  I'm all ears for you to tell me what's wrong.  Would you say something is wrong with that picture?

Hey man,

FYI:
1) "Withdrawal" is a very ineffective form of contraception (there can be sperm in pre-ejaculatory fluid) - not to cause you extra angst, but just to let you know not to get too comfortable.
2) Not to get into too much detail but one can contract an STD by just having sexual contact, as the infecting agent often enters through your body's mucosa and not necessarily via fluid transmission.
3) STDs are numerous (HIV, Gonorrhea, Chlamydia, Trichomoniasis, Syphilis, HSV 1/2, HAV, HBV, HCV, HPV...) and often can be asymptomatic in both the M and F. Just saying. As you said you will do, you should consult a Doctor who deals with this more often just to be on the safe side.
Note that even in the small likelihood that you did contract an STD most of them are treatable.

Another thought about handshakes:

“chilull Hashem is NOT defined by what a person thinks, rather by what God thinks”

I disagree :-)  chillul Hashem is mostly caused by what people think. Now, I clearly agree with you that we cannot transgress halachah because of a purported chillul Hashem. However, I maintain that being there is Halachic basis to shake a woman’s hand, when I do so, I am not being maikel in Halacha – I am being machmir on chillul Hashem.
Each person probably then has to decide on their own that  if shaking a hand actually causes them to have improper thoughts perhaps it is better not to and cause the chillul Hashem.  But make no mistake - however you define chillul Hashem - I have heard non-Jews talk disparagingly about orthodox Jews and their religion after a refusal of a handshake.

Here we go again with the handshaking business!

Non-Jews speaking disparaging about Jews does not mean a Chillul Hashem has been committed, provided that the Jewish person acted according to Halacha ("these strange people - they have to walk to Synagogue on their day of rest!" or, "Could you imagine how rude these Jews are?  I tried to hug him, and he rebuffed me!")

I do agree that, all things being equal, it is proper to avoid embarassing the other person.  But, for someone who follows the Poskim who Ossur, all things are not equal.

Finally, WWNBF, I have no problem that you return a handshake.  I would do it too if really necessary.  But, maybe it's time to work on some of the things that are clearly prohibited al pi Halacha!  

Where is the Mitzva of Kiddush Hashem in the Torah?

V'nikdashti b'soch Bnai Yisroel!!!!

V'nikdashti.... What Hashem thinks is proper. Not what YOU or I think is the 'good' & 'nice' thing to do!

Yosef is correct that the main Mitzvah of Kiddush Hashem (and Aveira of Chillul Hashem) is among other Jews.  But it does apply among gentiles as well.

Kedusha wrote on 06 Apr 2011 21:53:


This was gold to me, every word, Kedusha. Y'yasher kochacho!!

And on another note, Hashem has got to have plenty of room for helping all kinds of people. Sick ones, confused ones, and whatever...WNBFS will be OK, just as I will and everybody else here, eventually.

There will always be Poskim who say one thing and others who say the opposite. How does one decide who to follow? Optimally, you have one Rav - and you follow him.

WeWillNotBeForsaken wrote on 06 Apr 2011 22:10:

this is a quote from Hashem; "V'nikdashti = And I should be...", don't you think that Hashem is referring to the way HE understands it?


WeWillNotBeForsaken wrote on 06 Apr 2011 22:10:

Isn't choosing which Halachik opinion to follow based on GENTILE perceptions not in this category??

WWNBF,

I think this is getting beyond the scope of the GYE forum.  I do hope, though, that those who are lenient will stop feeling like they're, in some way, committing an aveira; those who need to ask a Posek will be able to do so in an intelligent manner; and those who are stringent will recognize that there are other valid opinions on the matter and respect those who follow them.

Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 06 Apr 2011 21:47:


Well, maybe not yet.  But if the doctor says, well what's wrong, and the person says.  Nothing much I just had a mini-stroke.  You then got to start wondering.  And, if the doctor then says after examining the patient.  Well, despite your protestations that it has nothing to do with your heart, I'm not convinced.  But don't worry, because I have a medication that was designed for heart patients, but it still work for someone in your situation as well who may not have heart problems.  One would think that the person should at least look into this medicine.

WeWillNotBeForsaken wrote on 06 Apr 2011 21:48:


I have attached the Steipler's letters on this issue.  I think he addresses your issue.  Also, Reb Moshe, says in the context of walking around in a stained suit on Shabbos because one can't clean it off that it is not considered a chillul hashem but a Kiddush Hashem since by wearing the suit you are proclaiming that Hashem's mitzvos reign supreme.

But as Kedusha points out, and since Dov has now vomited all over the floor, it is time to move on.

Guard - Just to thank you for the post, I really had started feeling that I was a sick addict with no hope besides a long road of recovery. Yes you are right, it was an huge yetzer Hora that I do not wish on anybody else and it is was a yetzer hora that I have never had in my life so I was totally unprepared. The reason why I did not cum, was not because I was worried about STD's pregnancy or the like, it was because this was the new barrier I had made for myself, albeit a very very low one.

How many people have been in a country without another Jew or Westerner in sight, thinking about it now it felt like I was not part of the Jewish nation anymore, like I had left it temporarily, even my family felt such a distance and although I spoke it seemed like I was in a different world.

UAJ to say that maybe my life has been one big lie, this is a harsh and over the top comment to make. How can one throw away an entire life because of one Aveirah (yes a big one) imagine the feeling that life has been one big lie. Such a comment should not even be mentioned.

The question is how to prepare for such a phenomena. I really feel the post about integrity, truthfulness and emess is a way forward, but I am not sure where to start.

True this topic is probably beyond the scope of GYE - but for me, the simple back and forth along with the small brain power I use on this provides a much needed distraction!

"to say that maybe my life has been one big lie this is a harsh and over the top comment to make.". Those were not my precise words and I certainly did not intend to possul all your wonderful attributes -- which I have no doubt that you have many (kol hagadol maychavayro yetzro godol haymenu) -- your criticism is well taken, and I apologize.
Now tachlis. If you have not done so yet. I would suggest 3 things.  1) you read the GYE in a nutshell and assess where you are holding and be guided accordingly; 2) regardless of where you are holding you should sign up for a partner. Certainly in the short term things will not be easy for you and you need someone you can open up to that at least can relate to you; 3) you sign up for the daily chizzuk emails. They will help you for the future. Hatzlacha

ur-a-jew wrote on 06 Apr 2011 23:17:


WNGU, I'm not taking back my apology, after all I barely know you and it may well be that but for this bump in the road you've lived an honorable productive life.  It may also be that you were presented with a nisayon described in the seforim that was unpassable.  So I can't speak about you, I shouldn't judge you or accuse you of anything, and certainly not until I've been in your shoes. 

I can, however speak about myself and say that my life has been a big lie. True, I have the outer trappings of a Torah observant productive jew. But as the chovos halevovos explains the outside is not where its at, the internal workings of a man are the measure.  To measure the internal workings of a man says the chovos halevovos you have to look at how he conducts himself when no one is around and no one will know.  Its very easy for me to daven a long shemona asrei in shul when everyone sees what kavanah I have, the question is whether I daven that same davening when I am in a hotel room in yehupitsville and no one will ever know, if a davened, how long I davened and what was on my mind while doing so.  For better or worse, we've created a society where its fashionable to be frum, the result often is a frumkeit that is only skin deep. 

So for myself personally I know that my life has been a lie since it matters not that I've never walked into a strip bar that simply means I have a certain level of shame that won't allow me to do so. The proof is I had little hesitation bringing the strip bar into the closed doors of my office when no one saw.  So whether or not I'm an addict --- I too have never walked into a strip bar, have not masturbated in years, one can say only watched porn occasionally but I consider myself an addict because sex was, and when left unchecked, is on my mind 24/7 and when I get it in my head that I need the object of my lust, my life becomes totally unmanageable since I cannot see passed the lust --- is really irrelevant to me, since I want the life that working the program and the steps bring.  I want G-d to be front and center.  I want to be able to own up to my own conduct.  In short, I want to make my life real.  So for me there is no shame in saying my life is or has been a lie, because being aware of the problem is at least a step towards the solution.  The shame is in not taking any effort to change it.  My hope is that actually someday I'll acheive it.