Actually, trouble's last post was not leitzanus at all. His initial post remains intact.

A simple point: tefillas zakkah proves that masturbation was rampant throughout our history. The tefillah said immediately at the onset of y"k mentions several times that we are confessing to the sin of masturbation (not the sin of looking at internet without filters). No bubby can tell us otherwise. Zakkah was not written for the six oisvorfs. It was written for klal yisroel as a whole, and especially the frum world. No, it wasn't (solely) written with our generation in mind.

Now, just because it was rampant, does not mean the sin is not a severe one. And just because it was around then, it doesn't mean you shouldn't get a filter.

bego wrote on 23 Oct 2019 15:29:

the trouble post was leitzanus (i think he wud agree but not sure) i dont think it needs a response.
suffice is to say that i spoke to her at length and confirmed everything i had thought about the ''made up concept of the heim to make us feel guilty'' (thats assumption number wtvr in terms of the big ones on this thread.) rav avigdor millers book is called ''a divine madness'' and is mostly focusing on a small time period before ww 2 when things went haywire. (it wasnt in all areas btw. (i wasnt bringing volozhin as a prime example either way i was just trying to make a point in terms of before that ''haywire tekufah) i addressed this in the previous post. the character and the ghetto like society mostly kept all bad influences out. as did the fact that people were very busy surviving for the most part. (i think rav avigdor miller zt''l actually makes this point himself! but i need to research to bring chapter and verse.) (though that wasnt in all areas some places were not so poor). 
of course we all gotta look at ourselves. but to say that the internet isnt playing a big fat role and that everything was the same by jews then...
well it is a free country...
and based on the president nowadays, u can def. say whatever you want!

Trouble wrote on 23 Oct 2019 15:22:

This made me laugh out loud at work! 

Sorry about my spelling misrtakes, they are actually delibareate to hide my status as an English literature major. 

In terms of being president, no thanks!! 

The heim - an imaginary concept made up to make jews nowadays feel guilty. See rabbi avidgor miller (though I cant remember the book - recently released).

Please don't think that just because a town had a yeshiva it was immune from these things. volozhin was a hot bed of solicialism and haskolo.

This thread was about us, but trouble made a valid point - we cant blame outsiders, the world has always been crum. We need to sort ourselves out.  

Higher: bubby, did you masturbate as a child?
Bubby: vas redtz du? We never took maaser from anything. Gedenkt mein kind, oranges and tomato's weren't imported from Palestine then.
Higher: no bubby, I meant to ask if you had bad thoughts ever?
Bubby: nein, we never thought shlecht about our neighbors. Don't forget, we all practically lived on top of each other.
Higher: yes bubby, that's what I'm asking. With that closeness, did that ever lead to unclean....
Bubby: mein teire sheifile (knip on the cheeks), once a week we went down to the river to bathe.
Higher (exasperated): bubby, did you ever put your fingers... (stammering somewhat), like beforehand.... I mean, not when you were actually.....?
Bubby: of course! How else would we know the temperature of the water!

not that anyone cares but i think that ive taken a bit of a sharp tone on this thread. i dont think thats necessary. sorry.
ditto for the above p.s. though

Threads evolve gotta up with the times ...

not to my understanding.
i thought this was primarily concerning us. 
(the jews). (i also had a chat confirming this with trouble.)
if trouble seems to agree with you either hes confused about his opening post, im confused...p.s. if anyone has a refutation to what it was like in der heim please speak up.

Oh I thought there was an argument about whether civilizations and societies were immoral (there were many)...

2 points for mitzrayim. 
pretty special case also dont ya think? 
anything more recent that we can relate to and was assumed in the opening post?

מצרים...

in response to bego (ill prob take him for president, especially when you consider the competition).
ill confess i dont know much about the gentile society in those days. by the way aside from a couple of well known figures in terms of mistresses etc. u didnt really document much...how do you know prostitution was rampant????
in terms of the Jewish society-is there a soul out there that disagrees that we were much more segregated in those days?? yeah there was an enlightenment period and this Napoleon character, but other than that we were pretty despised ''ghetto-ish jews. (im not talking about the assimilation period leading up to world war 2 in certain areas)
dunno maybe volozhin, and slonim, telz and belz,
were loaded with brothels!
speaking to my grandma about the alta heim gave me a VERY different picture.
nah shes not such a history buff.
but she has an advantage too.
she was there!
as for a ''story-line'' in the torah, the maysah with er and onan is something that we learn from but these are individuals far greater than our comprehension entails. they had cheshbonos and i dont think that we can compare them to us. so in that sense its kinda as relevant as the ''storyline'' of the hitting on the gid hanashe by yaakov avinu.
def. the torah wants to point out this sin (possibly due to the severity?)
its def not mentioned in the torah that this was common!

Welcome
With time i realised there are two types of sobriety. Negative and positive.
Negative means as you say Sur merah - push away anything negative, anything lustful, any fantasies - push them away, but by me they came back even harder after that and it usually ended in a fall. Whereas positive sobriety means by me, instead of actively pushing it away i started thinking of other thing or started reading books from the Shmuz, that way starting to think of other things and through that the fantasy or the feeling did not come back stronger
Hazlacha

Welcome back
If you are on here means you want change. By me the change had to happen in my head first - that is the best filter - not wanting to see as by seeing i do not gain anything. The second filter is on my computer, that if the internet does bombard me it gets stopped in the tracks.
Behazlacha

welcome to here.
Its a bit a riddle for me reading through this. Can you give some more information?
This forum helped me to realize that MZL and watching Porn is not good for me and that my real inner me also does not want it - even if my emotions tell me i do. But i dont know if you have the same problem as me so i cant tell you if this is the right place for you
Good luck anyway and i hope you find a solution or a help soon

B.H. i am having a good streak and it should keep at it. Doing one day at the time and sometimes one minute at the time. It does get easier sometimes but then at other i just pray to god to take the lustful thoughts and fantasies away from me. When i am tired i am more acceptable to lust and that is what happend over the past few days, but B.H. i had someone to support me - my higher power has helped me yesterday and he will also help me today.
Have a good day