excellence wrote on 01 Nov 2021 07:47:

It's hard for me to know exactly what has been working for me for the last month plus - but what you describe is exactly where I was - (for 20 years or so...) (Maybe I'm still there - just experiencing a short respite) What seems to be most helpful for me is externalizing the urge as opposed to (or perhaps together with) urge surfing. (Kind of what HHM wrote above) This isn't me, and it's not what I want, it's an urge or desire that I'm being assaulted with. I also remind myself (now I do) that משביעו רעב מרעיבו שבע refers not only to full blown acting out, but adding fuel to the fire of the urge with small, "innocent" behaviors and thoughts. I very much related to Rabbi Shafier's (The fight #6 or #7) that describes the Yetzer Hora as an outside voice. I think in the past I felt it was me, and there was something inside me screaming "I want that, I need that, but I can't." Eventually the "I can't" would lose to the "I need it".

excellence wrote on 02 Nov 2021 20:14:

Thank you for your insights!

Yes, since joining GYE (about a month ago) I've done a number of the things you mentioned. Probably the most helpful has been, letting urges go, externalizing the urge, and looking to see women as people - not objects to be used. 
I read through a number of the ideas in SMART recovery and did some of the exercises. Aside from dealing with urges - what else of SMART recovery have you found helpful?
Honestly, I do want to continue working through SMART, though it is hard to find the time. Additionally, I haven't really had any major urges or episodes, I think because I've been able to nip them in the bud.

Avrohom wrote on 11 Oct 2021 03:02:

Dear Avrohom, 

If we rely on constantly feeling inspired, it is inevitable that at some point we will fall since none of us are always on a spiritual high!

The way to continue a long streak is to focus on ODAAT. This is not just a sweet idea, it is a tremendous and powerful strategy from Chazal. Forget about the past or future and just focus on overcoming the present.

We also need internal changes, when we focus on what we really want in life it makes easier to overcome urges. Have you looked into SMART?

​What you described above about acting slightly on urges, is extremely normal. The Yetzer hora does this to all of us. The earlier we stop the easier it is. When you experience an urge try view it as something external trying to take you over, but instead just let it pass. Perhaps try to log/write down what happened after an urge to see at what point you held yourself back. Have you seen the urge surfing doc?

There is an unbelievable amount to read here too:
wiki.guardyoureyes.com/Main_Page

Hatzlocho,
Excellence 

Just want to point out that one of the things I really need to somehow work on is to let an urge pass without acting on it at all. 

Every time I experience an urge I find myself acting on it, either entering the dangerous world of fantasy to escape from reality, and most times I will arouse myself until I hold myself back at the last minute, in order not to fall.

This is a very risky game to play, as at some point I will be likely to fall.....

​My issue with urge surfing, is that it requires a certain relaxed state of mind to just sit back and surf the urge. However when I experience an urge I get so full of energy I can't just sit still, and I straight away allow myself to start slipping.............

Just thought I would share my feelings............

Thanks to all out there,
Wishing you all the best

Excellence 

B’’H I’m up to about 130 days clean and 95% clean from looking on the street and from lust.  And I feel the only reason I’m up to where I’m up to is because I’m clean from looking at women and any romance or love, because if I’m hyped up and aroused it’s very hard to apply all the tools.

How I did it,

1.       I learned urge surfing and to be mindful, and the main thing that helped me was that I was able to identify it as an outside thing, or like something that’s itching but it’s not real me. And even when I felt that my whole body, I was seeing it like a snake that poisoned me but it’s not the real me.

And every time I had an urge to look, I was thinking to myself where is it itching.

And that was the biggest thing for me, because when you are using power then you get even more exited and your mind is thinking what going on there, but when you just don’t need it, and that’s why you’re not looking, and going places to get it, then you feel good afterwards.

2.       Avoiding triggering places, if you’re constantly hyped up and aroused then it’s very hard to be mindful, and hard not to fantasize. Not to go to the supermarket when it’s busy, or someplace where you get triggered from certain people.

3.       When I go on the street I don’t look, not that I look away, looking away is too late, because then your mind goes what was going on there, in my experience it was better to look then to look away after seeing (not saying its muter). Don’t look to begin with.

4.       When I felt I need to go somewhere and I didn’t feel strong enough to be mindful, I tried to take of my eyeglasses, and it helps, because the biggest trigger is what your eyes are seeing.

5.       Sometimes I practice (I need to do this more) to see women as people, and not s*x objects, they have kids family, problems.

gettingthere9 wrote on 01 Oct 2021 01:20:

Urges are normal, they are part of being a healthy and functional human being. They will pass eventually, the less you stress about them the quicker it takes. I find that distracting myself is the best way to not stress about them, some people use "urge surfing" I've tried that too and it can also work if I am in the right frame of mind. 


This is a difficult statement to live with. It may be better to say something like, tomorrow I will do "x" "y" and "z" so that this doesn't happen again. 

It's normal to have hard days or even weeks so when they come along, have a plan prepared. A hobby, some exercise, a good bike ride, or a good Tosafos, whatever works for you. 

Keep it up bro!

Being home might just be a trigger. Subconsciously, your brain connects being at home with masturbating so you feel an urge when you go home.

I get this when I go to certain places, hear certain noises and the like that I associate with masturbating. It could be, but it doesn't have to be for any deep reason. here is where "urge management" (I just made that up) comes into play. Things like urge surfing or distracting yourself and making sure to keep productive are the way to go. 

Of course, there can be other things at play like anxiety or some other emotion that we may feel when we are in specific places. I have some negative associations with my parents home and sometimes when I visit I can get very tense. 

I think the trick is to be really aware and really honest. Don't overcomplicate your feelings and desires. There is nothing wrong with the desire to masturbate or watch porn, that just how you are wired. If you desire it, let it be just desire, it doesn't have to be some deep yearning for "connection with Hashem" that's manifesting in the form of watching sex on a screen. It could be from negative emotions, or just plain taiva, or both, all of which are normal. 

It's not noble, it never was and you know that it's not. You may want to accomplish, then feel bad for not accomplishing that thing, but no one can convince themselves that masturbating is "noble." 

You made a plan for when you are home, did you include goals, positive things to accomplish over the next week? This might be the most important of all. Make sure to make it realistic though. Some goals in davening (like davening before the zman), some goals in learning (at least 20 minutes, in the morning), some goals in helping out at home (doing errands for your mother) , and some projects that you always wanted to do.

Grant400 wrote on 08 Jun 2021 22:52:

Thanks for explaining. Something I was made aware of is that the wave when accompanied by physical sensations, usualy when brought upon by anxiety, has a physiological expiry on it. The body is limited as to how much of these hormones it can produce to heighten to physical discomfort, be it elevated heart rate sweating etc. Sometimes this discomfort propels us to act out, however knowing that it can't go on forever helps ride the wave.

From what I understand, it seems to be that there are two methods that are being mixed up here. Both are used in SMART recovery. Below I quoted the exact words from the SMART program literature.

Ride the wave — Observe the urge and visualize that you are surfing a wave that grows, crests, weakens, and disappears.

Accept the urge — Recognize that it is uncomfortable and hold it at a distance. Experience it as you would any passing thought. Observe it as an outside object. See it but don’t evaluate it. Acknowledge it as something that used to be a problem, then return your attention to whatever you were doing. Don’t turn the urge into a bigger issue by pretending it doesn’t exist.

The way I understand it is as follows:

Ride the wave,or urge surfing, is a method that helps us understand and keep in mind that the urge will pass just like a wave, therefore we do not have to give in.

Accepting the urge is a method to disengage from the thought not by squeezing it out of our heads, and forcefully replacing it with a different thought, which never works. It will just return with a vengeance. Rather we accept the urge as a thought and nothing more and calmly continue with life...all while letting the urge/thought be there. (See the link "How to function despite lust" in my signature)

Hi I wanted to share that BH today I made it back to 30 days clean. I feel proud of myself for staying abstinent for 30 days (and i feel proud of myself for feeling capable of openly sharing that I’m proud of myself too...something I definitely couldn’t do a few years ago so improvement in self esteem has come a long way for me with support from some amazing mentors involved here).

also its refreshing to share that I started getting involved in SMART recovery techniques and have read the first two of four parts of the SMART handbook (building and maintaining motivation and coping with urges), worked through some of the worksheets on my own, and listened in to some SMART calls. 

In the past I had made some serious commitments to filters and monitoring on my phone/computer. But that clearly wasn’t enough as I continued to find excuses for myself to get the filters unlocked and eventually fall anyways. I think the reason is - I felt that I gave up so much in my previous lifestyle in changing over to filters that why do I still have to try to do anything about urges when they hit me? Shouldn’t the filters solve the problem for me?...“It’s not fair that I accepted filters in my life but still have to deal with urges...” something like that. Maybe some people here can relate to that but as silly as it may sound it definitely has been an issue for me. 

Over the past 30 days the smart program has helped me learn to take a deep breath when an urge/lustful thought pops into my head and stop to think about what I’m going through in a calm, proactive but non-judgemental way. I’m not immediately beating myself up for allowing the thought to enter my head and trying to forcefully STOP the urge or delete my thoughts/push them out of my head. That approach clearly has never worked for me as eventually I fall into guilt/self pity issues and use acting out as a way to soothe myself. I’ve practiced a technique they call urge surfing to work through the urge and over the past 30 days it’s helped me work through lustful thoughts at least 6 or 7 times. I am excited to continue reading through the materials and working on the programs and I hope and daven it will continue to help me and so many others who are trying to keep kedusha in their lives

It is normal that once in a while we can be having extremely strong withdrawal symptoms and extremely strong urges. When we have extremely strong withdrawal symptoms or urges it's important besides for urge surfing to do other healthy feel good activities that will also release dopamine into our body.

-Something I highly recommend when you feel too much sexual stress is a good workout. It will release dopamine and help you feel better

- Disputing your beliefs. (ABC-Tool, see this thread, DIB Tool see this thread ) many times the fact that you believe that it's too much and it's unbearable will actually make it unbearable meaning you actually start physically feeling what you tell yourself. Thinking about your beliefs and disputing them and showing how they are irrational will help you realize that the build up is in your head.

- Many times we confuse what we are feeling, we think it's an urge but in reality it's really fear that's paralyzing us as opposed to an urge. Therefore by us getting scared and trying so hard to get rid of it, what we are in essence doing is causing our fear to get even worse. Try practicing acceptance that we are feeling extremely fearful and accept the fact that our emotions have gone beyond our control and that is okay, it's just an emotion. Give up trying to control your emotions/urges as trying to control something that is beyond our control just causes our emotions to get worse.

-As opposed to fighting the urge and concentrating on how to not fall (The "Sur Merah"), Concentrate on self care and some healthy activities you can do now (The "Asei Tov")

All the best,
Yaakov

Here is a link to a great article and many useful recordings to practice Urge Surfing written by MenachemGYE https://intercom.help/gye-faq/en/articles/4596414-urge-surfing-includes-audio

All the best,
Yaakov

I just watched an amazing video called Urge Surfing. It does a fantastic job of explaining the reason the Yetzer Hara uses. The Yetzer Hara tells you to act out the craving so that it will go away. But this is just reinforcing the craving. The way to get rid of the craving is to decrease its strength. This is done by noticing that there is a craving, acknowledging that it is normal and comes from the body (not from you), and then letting it pass. Doing this repeatedly will slowly decrease the strength of the craving.The long nature of this can feel grueling and frustrating. But that is because our brains are tuned to desire quick results. I think the trick is to find the cravings pleasant instead of annoying. This might sound crazy but I am going to do my best to see each wave of craving as a positive occurrence. An opportunity to grow and to slowly chip away at this addiction.

Introduction: Why these techniques work?

When you have an urge to do something, the urge will usually go away by itself after a short time. If you have an urge to scratch a mosquito bite, how long does the itch last if you do nothing? Maybe a few minutes. The same thing happens with urges to engage in a behavior. If you do nothing, the urge will be gone in a few minutes.

The exact amount of time can vary from person to person, but it rarely lasts longer than 20 minutes. (Unless you are exposed to a trigger such as an immodestly dressed person, or if you are purposely fantasizing etc.)

That’s right, if you don’t give in to the urge, you won’t explode, it will eventually get weaker and disappear. The techniques below are about training yourself to withhold from acting on the urge until the urge has passed.

As you practice these techniques for a few weeks, you’ll brain will start unlearning the habit of masturbating and watching porn, and over time, the urges will become less intense and less frequent.

Distract yourself - by doing something else
Make a list of possible distracting activities you can engage in when you have an urge, and add it to your plan. Find something that you think can really distract you. It needs to be something interesting that will grab your attention. Pacing back and forth in the room won’t do the trick...

Since your mind can’t think about 2 things at once, the distraction will redirect your attention away from the urge and into something else. Some examples are calling a friend or family member, playing a game, reading a good book (you might want to reserve a book just for this purpose), exercise, or taking a walk outside.

Be realistic, for some people a sefer can be distracting enough. For others, they’ll need a good (kosher) movie to do the trick. By the time you have an urge, it will be hard to come up with ideas of how to distract yourself. But if you plan in advance exactly what you will do and include them in your plan, you can start a distracting activity the moment you get an urge.

Remembering the pros of abstinence
Sometimes when we have an urge, our thinking becomes blurred, and we can't remember why we decided to quit. To use this technique summarize the list of benefits of staying clean (if you've done a Cost - Benefit Analysis - CBA, you'll can take the list from there), and keep it handy. Then next time you have an urge, read the list and think about the great benefits you'll gain if you resist the urge.  

Delay 
Make a commitment that no matter what, you won’t act on an urge right away. Instead you’ll wait at least 20 minutes (or some other amount of time). Hopefully, by then the urge will have passed. If you want to use this technique, decide how many minutes you are ready to wait, and add it to your plan.
Even if you ended up watching porn or mastrubating after 20 minutes, congratulate for at least sticking to your plan! You’re still better off than if you have done it right away. By refusing to gratify yourself instantly, you have strengthened your self-control muscles which is good for your long term success. If this happens repeatedly, try increasing the number of minutes, until you find the amount of time that works best for you. It’s also possible that your urges last longer than usual because your actively focusing on it (e.g. fantasizing about what you’re like to watch). If you notice such a pattern, try to spice up your delay technique to make it more practical, for example instead of just waiting for 20 minutes, commit to do some activity for 20 minutes, like taking a walk.   

SMART Recovery has a spin-off technique called Deny & Delay. Here's how they describe it:



Mindfulness / Surf the Urge

Mindfulness is a very broad area and has been gaining a lot popularity in recent years. For now I'll discus a mindfulness style technique called "Urge Surfing". This technique was first described in Relapse Prevention (1985) p. 10 and p. 241, and has been gaining popularity ever since.The short description below doesn't do justice to the topic, but it's a start... 

Just like a surfer knows how to ride a wave without getting hurt, and urge surfer learns how to let an urge come and pass without getting affected. When an urge comes, observe it curiously, as if you are an outside observer. Think to yourself, “Hmm… here comes the urge, I wonder where it came from. It’s not my true desire, the proof is my CBA. It’s just a fleeting urge coming from who-knows-where, like images in a dream…” Keep on observing the urge, noticing how it feels, until it reaches its peak. Then notice how the urge gets weaker and weaker until it disappears. By doing this, you just sit (or lie down) and do nothing when you get an urge. You don’t fight it, and you don’t try to distract yourself. You just observe it until it’s gone.

This technique is very powerful, because all it requires is your mind. Even when you have no way to distract yourself, and don’t have the energy to fight, you can still use the technique. However this technique takes some time to practice. So if you want to include it in your plan, try to practice urge surfing for everyday things until you become good at it. For example, when you feel the urge to eat a 5th cookie at midnight, try to “surf the urge”.

An idea that goes along with this technique is externalizing the urge. Instead of identifying with your urge, view it as a response to some external trigger or situation. Instead of thinking “I need to watch porn right now,'' think “I’m currently experiencing an urge to watch porn”.

This thread will contain a list of many evidence-based methods to dealing with urges.

Urge Management techniques are for everyone. No matter what program you use to quit, it will always include techniques for dealing with urges. This thread will cover all the evidence-based methods of dealing with urges. 

If you master techniques for dealing with urges, you'll be able to stay clean even if there's nothing external that is stopping you. If you're serious about recovery, try to learn about all these techniques, and pick the ones you think will work best for you (and add them to your plan). Then, with trial and error, you'll find out if those techniques really work for you or if you should try other ones. You can also switch your techniques from time to time to keep things interesting... 

The list of method can be found below.

Note: I've tried to find out which methods are more effective than others, but couldn't find anything conclusive. 8 studies have found that almost all methods are equal, while 6 studies have found that there are differences. Also, most these studies have been done on people struggling with smoking and alcohol. It's possible that with porn and mastrubation, the rankings would be different. I've ordered the list below informally according to how many of studies I've found have actually recommended these methods.  
-

1. Distract yourself - by doing something else (16 studies pro, 1 against)
2. Remembering the pros of abstinence (12 studies pro, 0 against)
3. Delay (12 studies pro, 1 against)
4. Urge Surfing/Mindfulness (9 studies pro, 0 against)
5. Remembering Cons / Recall negative consequences (10 studies pro, 0 against)
6. Distract yourself - by thinking about something else (12 studies pro, 3 against)
7. Relaxation/Breathing/Meditation (11 studies pro, 1 against)
8. Coping / Mastery Statements (8 studies pro, 1 against)
9. Escape / Avoidance (7 studies pro, 0 against)
10. Acceptance/Mindfulness (7 studies pro, 0 against)
11. Substitution (9 studies pro, 2 against)
12. Dispute Thoughts (5 studies pro, 0 against)
13. Imagery Techniques (6 studies pro, 1 against)
14. Reach out for social support (6 studies pro, 2 against)
15. Remembering substance-related successes (3 studies pro, 0 against)
16. Exercise - during an urge (4 studies pro, 2 against)

In the post below, I'll describe each of the techniques in more detail.