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07 Apr 2025 20:50

chancyhk

Rabbi WannaChange
I am seeing this forum for the first time. 
Welcome to GYE, you made the right choice. You will remember this decision for the rest of your long life. 
Yes, we all go thru the same initial doubts and fears, we are used to living a certain way and we are breaking it. Of course it wont be easy. But it gets easier the longer it goes. 

Yes, I concur with HHM that SSA is a much bigger issue today. I talk to new guys here every day that have SSA. 
But, the bottom line is that its just another form of the addiction. Everyone has a different mind and lusts after something else. But its beatable like anything else. 


Stick around, read posts, go thru the F2F program and learn some tools. Its invaluable. 

Good luck. 

P.S. you can reach out to me via email if you wanna talk more. 
chancygye@outlook.com
Category: Break Free
06 Apr 2025 22:45

struggler33

I told myself that If I can do 20 days, I'll start my journey on this 90 day forum
The first 18 days have gone through almost without any urges. They call it the pink cloud, it's a cool place but not reality.
The last few days have been a little tougher, but still pretty great. 
I wasn't able to daven normally, I thought that me being clean would automatically switch that on, but it turns out this is not the case.
But I have learned to thank Hashem each day for allowing me to stay clean, and to put on talis & tefilin, and daven as much as I can
I also have written my story extensively for myself, and as locked parts of my childhood history are being unlocked, I can start forming a pattern why I did what I did, why I have been stuck on P&M and the certain fetishes I have, and what void I was trying to fill. I will share when I think I'm able to. 
for now I'll share what has helped me thus far.

- Accountability partner - this is the most powerful tool for me to stop myself from doing anything stupid
- Writing and being on GYE - besides being aware of what I'm going through and reading and sharing others struggles and life stories, I also get my dopamine from here and writing on other forums, which takes away the need to get it from the bad places we're trying to avoid
- Get out of bed in the morning and not lazy around, taking away the opportunity from browsing out of boredom
- Therapy - although I wouldn't consider myself an addict, this helps me understand myself, my strengths and weaknesses
- Journaling - Even if you're not ready to share your full story here, you should still write it down for yourself, that will help you understand why you're doing whatever you are, which sometimes needs healing.
- Talk to Hashem - He knows everything anyway, you might as well speak to him, acknowledge your struggles, your hardships etc. I'm not talking about promising to be good or fooling yourself that you can only talk to him about learning or bigger stuff than yourself. Even if your davening is not that great, or you don't go to daven at all.
06 Apr 2025 18:15

chosemyshem

rocky21 wrote on 05 Apr 2025 17:26:
Ok well this is embarrassing because as Ben hashem said the worst day sober is better then the best day as a addicted and here I am after falling unfortunately feeling like a sack of shi#
It so anoying you fight and you fight and you claw your way to a nother victory after a nother and nothing really feels different until you slip and loose that one day and that one day wipes away your beautiful streak your put in hours fighting and then pooof it's gone your back at zero and you feel/are a looser.
Is it fair absolutely not this one slip this one slip is stronger then 56 days of straight winning but thats just the way hashem wanted it to be go figure 

So I'm just sitting here thinking out loud "here goes another try" 
Because I've been fighting this for like a year and a half now and I've only fallen like 8 times in total but guess what the streak of 73 or of 56 or if 45 or of the other 39 doesn't matter because I'm back at 0 
It's hell you take a bolder and your pushing it up the mountain day after day after day and one little slip sets the bolder crushing all the done for you to start over. It truly is hell having to look back all the why you still have to go

And I know some people will say "no you did fall all the way down you just slipt" matter of fact is I'm at 0 that's the beginning and I got to get to 90 

Wish me luck because after every fall I become sader and loose more will to live then before 

Thanks for reading 

Dude. Very sorry to hear about the fall. But it's not about the streak. It's about living life.

If I had gotten to a point where I was only masturbating 8 times a year as a single guy I would have put myself on a pedestal and started worshiping myself as the god of self control. But that's really besides the point. The point is that perhaps you should take your eyes off of the shot clock and try to find some contentment in each day of being clean.
06 Apr 2025 14:41

yoshev

rocky21 wrote on 05 Apr 2025 17:26:
Ok well this is embarrassing because as Ben hashem said the worst day sober is better then the best day as a addicted and here I am after falling unfortunately feeling like a sack of shi#
It so anoying you fight and you fight and you claw your way to a nother victory after a nother and nothing really feels different until you slip and loose that one day and that one day wipes away your beautiful streak your put in hours fighting and then pooof it's gone your back at zero and you feel/are a looser.
Is it fair absolutely not this one slip this one slip is stronger then 56 days of straight winning but thats just the way hashem wanted it to be go figure 

So I'm just sitting here thinking out loud "here goes another try" 
Because I've been fighting this for like a year and a half now and I've only fallen like 8 times in total but guess what the streak of 73 or of 56 or if 45 or of the other 39 doesn't matter because I'm back at 0 
It's hell you take a bolder and your pushing it up the mountain day after day after day and one little slip sets the bolder crushing all the done for you to start over. It truly is hell having to look back all the why you still have to go

And I know some people will say "no you did fall all the way down you just slipt" matter of fact is I'm at 0 that's the beginning and I got to get to 90 

Wish me luck because after every fall I become sader and loose more will to live then before 

Thanks for reading 

Everything you’re saying is so familiar...  It’s like you’ve captured every bit of nonsense our brains throw at us after a fall, and it all feels so painfully true when we’re in it...
I don't think I can say anything that will change how you feel right now - because nothing people said to me helped me much either after a fall, even if I agreed in theory with what they were saying...
But one thing that did help, was to remind myself that I should NOT trust my thoughts after a fall. That all the thoughts of yiush in my head may only be meaningless brain fog not grounded in reality, and therefore, I should just blindly force myself to get back up, even if voices in my head are screaming "why try?".
And it worked. The first days were hard and counterintuitive - I felt like I was a robot doing things that don't make sense.
But after a few good days, my normal mind was back (sort of), and I was cruising again...  
05 Apr 2025 17:26

rocky21

Ok well this is embarrassing because as Ben hashem said the worst day sober is better then the best day as a addicted and here I am after falling unfortunately feeling like a sack of shi#
It so anoying you fight and you fight and you claw your way to a nother victory after a nother and nothing really feels different until you slip and loose that one day and that one day wipes away your beautiful streak your put in hours fighting and then pooof it's gone your back at zero and you feel/are a looser.
Is it fair absolutely not this one slip this one slip is stronger then 56 days of straight winning but thats just the way hashem wanted it to be go figure 

So I'm just sitting here thinking out loud "here goes another try" 
Because I've been fighting this for like a year and a half now and I've only fallen like 8 times in total but guess what the streak of 73 or of 56 or if 45 or of the other 39 doesn't matter because I'm back at 0 
It's hell you take a bolder and your pushing it up the mountain day after day after day and one little slip sets the bolder crushing all the done for you to start over. It truly is hell having to look back all the why you still have to go

And I know some people will say "no you did fall all the way down you just slipt" matter of fact is I'm at 0 that's the beginning and I got to get to 90 

Wish me luck because after every fall I become sader and loose more will to live then before 

Thanks for reading 
04 Apr 2025 11:01

m111

iwillmanage wrote on 02 Apr 2025 15:01:

trying23 wrote on 01 Apr 2025 23:24:
1 more question I had.

The Rebbe many times mentions that the eitzah is hesech hadaas completely, now I have not found this to work well for me which could be because I wasn't actually being mesiach daas or because I'm an addict...

If anyone has Any input on the matter would be greatly appreciated 

Oh, I relate so strongly to this hesech haddas problem. For years I was sure I could shake the obsession by just keeping my mind off it, but I could never seem to get round to doing that, and when I did, it didn't want to forget about me. But I was still convinced that it was the right way forward (also reinforced by what I learnt [although I'm not lubavitch] in Kuntres uMayaan of the Rashab), I thought that any type of 'program' to help was only making things worse because it just keeps the focus on the problem. At the same time, I believed I had to delve deeper in understanding and thinking about Torah on this subject, whether it's machshovo or chasidus, that was the only thing that felt like it helped, it felt like I was above all the garbage. But in fact it was a cover up, I was living above my actions, somehow in denial of what I was actually doing. And it definitely wasn't helping get my mind off the problem, in fact my entire yiddishkeit revolved around this struggle. As a wise old man who used to frequent these parts told me, ' tryin' to do hesach hadaas isn't a plan'. 
Anyways, my journey led me to SA, and incredibly, although I go to two meetings a week, make a number of calls every day and am generally very involved in a program of recovery, I'm finally getting what this hesach haddas thing is all about. The obsession is simply no longer plaguing me! I have head space to explore other interests, things other than lust interest me and I can focus on living instead of constantly chasing. It's worked for me for the past 10 months, one day at a time. Why and how, I'll leave to you to figure out. Personally, it doesn't interest me anymore. I get to enjoy life.

Without a proper understanding of ourselves, the concepts taught in chassidus stay superficial and do not cause any change at all.
I think that this is the reason the first 17 chapters of Tanya are dedicated to underdstanding the makeup of the nefesh (actually two) and everything about it. The issue is that we really don't internalize the info it gives without real work, meaning just reading it doesn't help too much. Yes, in Yeshiva they may have not taught it that way, but that is the fact of life, in the Rebbe Rashab's words in Kuntres Hatfila, chassidus cannot be applied properly without real avodas hatfila, which means "hissbonenus" (contemplation).
03 Apr 2025 19:10

yitzchokm

Your last post sounds like you are in a very good place. You are ready to work on your addiction to P&M and you seem ready to talk about religion if only you had the right support system. I would think that there would be a Rebbe or organization that can help you sort out religion and marriage but I am not familiar with the Rebbes and organizations that do this. HHM is a very warm, caring person with lots of experience and I think you have a lot to gain by talking to him. You are a good person who went through many struggles in life but you are in a very good place and you have the potential for a very bright future.
Category: Introduce Yourself
03 Apr 2025 18:21

time2win

We started going to therapy to try and save our marriage. I knew I couldn’t keep my secret any longer. It was time to bite the bullet and get the amputation. With the therapist mediating, I broke down in tears and panic, and told her that I wasn’t the ben torah, or even frum Jew, that I presented myself as during shidduchim. I thought I could be that person, hoped and prayed I could be that person, but was simply not that person. Not anymore. I braced myself for her response...

To be continued…


My Story Part 11:

To my extreme surprise, after my disclosure, my wife didn't demand a divorce on the spot. We agreed to try and stay married for the sake of our kids. Things kept going downhill though and a couple months later, we were on the brink of divorce. We had reached the end of the road in our marriage and I was at the end of the road in my yiddishkeit. Once we got divorced, I was going to drop Judaism like a hot potato. (For perspective, I already knew which shiksa coworker I was going to ask out on a date-after I recovered from the divorce obviously).

As far as my addiction goes, this was rock bottom. Not because my usage had escalated to the point where I was involved in crazy stuff, but because the emotional pain, and the need to escape it, was so intense. 

The details are a bit blurry, but something like this happened: Providentially, a rebbi who I hadn't spoken to in a few years called me out of the blue. I said "gosh, really bad timing, but my life is falling apart actually. How is your Tuesday going?" He drove 45 minutes from where he lived to talk to me in person. Through his intervention, and the intervention of another Rabbi in the community, we were able to stay married.

there's a LOT more I could write at this point, but suffice it to say that several years have passed, and we are very happily married. I'm not certain God exists, but one of the strongest pieces of evidence to me is our marriage. The fact that our marriage has not only survived, but thrived, is basically a hidden miracle. I would put the odds at about that of winning the powerball. Or perhaps, to borrow from Chazal, the odds of Krias Yam Suf. There was no scenario I could imagine where things could possibly work out. At this point though, it is clear that we are in it for life. We still have our differences, but I was able to recalibrate my religious life and have reached a point of stability with my halachic observance. I'm not the Ben Torah I used to be (I guess you could consider me technically MoDox, culturally Centrist Orthodox/Shtark YUish), but I'm in a healthy place mentally & emotionally.

So where does that leave me as far as my addiction?  I still have my frustrations, as I've written about elsewhere on the forum, but I don't have the same constant stress triggers that I used to have now that my life is stable. So I'm ready to quit, but old habits die hard. After years of using porn and masturbation as an escape, those well traveled neural pathways still create an almost insatiable pull to act out when I am emotionally triggered by stress, frustration and the like. 

I use webchaver on whatever devices I can, and this has helped enormously, but logistically, I have not yet been able to cut off access to unfiltered internet entirely from my life. So here I am, fighting the good fight. 

There's a lot more I could write, and if this forum was dedicated to helping people who wrestle with religion instead of lust addiction, I would. Basically though, that's my story.

Time2Win   


   
Category: Introduce Yourself
03 Apr 2025 07:59

yoshi

Day 9 - 12 clean !!

I had some serious difficulties with my wife recently. The past few days have been really tough, and I felt like escaping with porn. But I just realized that doing so would create a deep sense of self-disgust, on a situation that's already complicated. 
When I have something really important to protect or build, it's easier to stay strong and not falling in porn and masturbation. Need to find a way to always keep something meaningful in front of me, something that matters more than the addiction  so I don't fall back into it. 
02 Apr 2025 23:49

proudyungerman

time2win wrote on 02 Apr 2025 23:18:
Cumulative Stats
Current Streak: 1 loss
Total Wins: 85 days
Total Losses: 6 days
Winning Percentage: 93.41%

Today's positive action towards recovery:
pushups for stress relief.

was triggered yesterday by some stupid April fools nonsense (on LinkedIn of all places). Wasn’t looking for trouble. Did some urge surfing and survived yesterday, but caved today:-(

I guess I’m just not that motivated to take it to the next level:-/ it’s so easy to rationalize an occasional relapse, plus the benefits of quitting are subtle but the sweet escape of porn and masturbation is anything but subtle.

If my wife knew about my addiction, I wouldn’t need to be so secretive about my recovery efforts. I wish I could join a chabura or go to SA or something, but that’s not possible without her finding out

Meh. Still spinning my wheels at the moment. Anyway, tomorrow is a new day.
Time2Win

Have you considered joining the Vaad?
There are different time slots (with more on the way!) that may enable you to join without compromising on your secrecy.
Many of the guys gain alot from the oilam/chavershaft aspect of it.
Reach out to me or Shem for more details.
02 Apr 2025 23:18

time2win

Cumulative Stats
Current Streak: 1 loss
Total Wins: 85 days
Total Losses: 6 days
Winning Percentage: 93.41%

Today's positive action towards recovery:
pushups for stress relief.

was triggered yesterday by some stupid April fools nonsense (on LinkedIn of all places). Wasn’t looking for trouble. Did some urge surfing and survived yesterday, but caved today:-(

I guess I’m just not that motivated to take it to the next level:-/ it’s so easy to rationalize an occasional relapse, plus the benefits of quitting are subtle but the sweet escape of porn and masturbation is anything but subtle.

If my wife knew about my addiction, I wouldn’t need to be so secretive about my recovery efforts. I wish I could join a chabura or go to SA or something, but that’s not possible without her finding out

Meh. Still spinning my wheels at the moment. Anyway, tomorrow is a new day.
Time2Win
02 Apr 2025 15:01

iwillmanage

trying23 wrote on 01 Apr 2025 23:24:
1 more question I had.

The Rebbe many times mentions that the eitzah is hesech hadaas completely, now I have not found this to work well for me which could be because I wasn't actually being mesiach daas or because I'm an addict...

If anyone has Any input on the matter would be greatly appreciated 

Oh, I relate so strongly to this hesech haddas problem. For years I was sure I could shake the obsession by just keeping my mind off it, but I could never seem to get round to doing that, and when I did, it didn't want to forget about me. But I was still convinced that it was the right way forward (also reinforced by what I learnt [although I'm not lubavitch] in Kuntres uMayaan of the Rashab), I thought that any type of 'program' to help was only making things worse because it just keeps the focus on the problem. At the same time, I believed I had to delve deeper in understanding and thinking about Torah on this subject, whether it's machshovo or chasidus, that was the only thing that felt like it helped, it felt like I was above all the garbage. But in fact it was a cover up, I was living above my actions, somehow in denial of what I was actually doing. And it definitely wasn't helping get my mind off the problem, in fact my entire yiddishkeit revolved around this struggle. As a wise old man who used to frequent these parts told me, ' tryin' to do hesach hadaas isn't a plan'. 
Anyways, my journey led me to SA, and incredibly, although I go to two meetings a week, make a number of calls every day and am generally very involved in a program of recovery, I'm finally getting what this hesach haddas thing is all about. The obsession is simply no longer plaguing me! I have head space to explore other interests, things other than lust interest me and I can focus on living instead of constantly chasing. It's worked for me for the past 10 months, one day at a time. Why and how, I'll leave to you to figure out. Personally, it doesn't interest me anymore. I get to enjoy life.
02 Apr 2025 14:20

m111

Farbrengen:
Here goes.
(sing a nigun and get in the mode...)
This discussion has a few parts.
Part one, we expect chassidus to have a solution to our addictive behaviors. Is this a proper expectation? Second, where does this expectation come from? third, How does this expectation affect us. On the lasst point, I and perhaps others have experienn=ed, that whenever we come across something in chassidus that seems related to what we are working on, we zoom in and super focus on it.
I challenge, chassidus is a holistic approach (of how we relate to ourselves, the world and Hashem) , not just a compilation of "eitzos", therefore perhaps even if chassidus does help, it will not be in this way.

Be'ezras Hashem to be continued...
02 Apr 2025 07:26

yoshev

yitzchokm wrote on 01 Apr 2025 23:53:
According to what I remember from the Rebbe's letters if I remember correctly, Hesech Hadaas is to think about something positive. Regarding an urge, GYE adds to that that it should be something enjoyable that requires your full attention. Regarding women in the streets the F2F program gives three options of Hesech Hadaas:

Here is also some more from F2F on this topic.

Whether you're married or single, it's natural to have brief sexual thoughts about other people. These fleeting thoughts occur outside your conscious control and are an integral part of your sexual drive.

It's perfectly natural to find both females and males attractive and to momentarily project desires onto them. Such passing thoughts are nothing to worry about and can be ignored, even if they feel outrageous or ridiculous.

While the Torah teaches us to avoid purposely fantasizing, it recognizes that sexual thoughts are part of being human and difficult to escape even for a single day (Bava Basra 164b).

However, dwelling on these thoughts for more than a few seconds is what we consider a sexual fantasy—a thought, idea, or image about sexual behavior that causes arousal. This is what we'll address here.

What Not to Do

When you notice yourself fantasizing, here are two important "don'ts":


  1. Don't masturbate to fantasies. While masturbating might temporarily make the fantasy go away, in the long run, it will make them stronger and more frequent. And of course, you're working to avoid masturbation anyway.

  2. Don't wrestle with the fantasy. Forcibly pushing sexual fantasies out of your mind is counterproductive. When you try to suppress specific thoughts, they only become more dominant. As Reb Yisroel Salanter said:
    "One should not invest great effort to dispel hirhurim—sexual thoughts, because the nature of the human mind is such that the more one attempts to push away a thought, the more the mind will resist and cause the foreign thought to flare up. So excessive effort to banish hirhurim will cause them only to intensify."


The Hesech Hadaas Approach

The most effective way to deal with fantasies is to simply ignore them, attend to more important matters, or shift your focus elsewhere. This concept is known as hesech hadaas (diversion of attention). Here's a practical implementation:

Step 1: Acknowledge
Recognize that you're having a fantasy. Tell yourself, "I notice I'm having a fantasy," or "I'm having an image of a fantasy."

Step 2: Accept Without Judgment
Remind yourself that the fantasy will dissipate on its own. There's no need to force it out of your mind.

Step 3: Redirect Attention
Return to whatever you were doing before and give it your full attention. If what you were doing wasn't aligned with your goals and values, choose a different activity—an errand, learning something, or playing a game. The specific activity doesn't matter as long as you fully engage with it.

A Process of Improvement

As you progress in your recovery, the frequency of sexual fantasies will naturally decline. This experience is similar to an old metaphor:

An innkeeper named Moshkeh sold wine and spirits to local peasants. One day, tired of dealing with their drunken behavior, he closed the bar. That night, the peasants banged on his door, demanding their usual drinks.
"Sorry," Moshkeh replied, "from now on, the bar is closed."
The knocking continued for a few weeks until word spread that Moshkeh had permanently closed his business. Over time, the peasants knocked less and less, until only occasional strangers stopped by.

Similarly, once you've stopped watching pornography and masturbating, fantasies will continue but gradually become less frequent—though they're unlikely to stop completely.

Focus on Behavior, Not Thoughts

While it's important to deal with fantasies when they arise, remember that your main goal is to change behaviors, not thoughts. Hashem made you human and doesn't expect total mastery over your thoughts.

You achieve freedom by eliminating problematic behaviors. When you focus on behaviors and keep yourself occupied with positive activities, your fantasies will naturally become weaker and less frequent.

Remember that each time you apply hesech hadaas to a fantasy, you fulfill the important mitzvah of "ונשמרת מכל דבר רע" (guarding yourself from every evil thing). Rather than becoming upset about these thoughts, celebrate them as opportunities to perform a mitzvah!

FURTHER READING:


:pinch: Warning: Spoiler!
02 Apr 2025 06:52

yoshev

trying23 wrote on 01 Apr 2025 02:59:
What I mean by I won't be dissuaded is that I won't believe someone telling me that chassidus is abstract and doesn't have the right tools.

I've been in touch with some mentors and have found it helpful but I still have a long way to go and the aspect of SA came up...

I can't tell you exactly which specific concepts spoke to me because I would say a lot did, why it didn't help I can also give some excuses for, like needing to think about it more and perhaps discuss it with someone in detail. 

Just thinking, it might be worth finding out if you'd be considered an "addict" (by 12-step standards) even if you're not planning to go. Guys like Efraim, Dov, etc., are great for that.It could be helpful as a process of elimination - if they say you're NOT an addict, then SA is off the table (since it doesn't work for non-addicts anyway), and you can just focus 100% on applying the options that do have a shaychus to you. 
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