Great Q, and thought provoking as well. I think that the best way to frame it is that by the external societal standards of the world I grew up in, i was doing well. Like i mentioned originally I was (seemingly from the outside) financially secure, married with a growing family, involved in charity and institutions, and set for materialistic success. 

as i am realizing more and more now as i progress through this journey, life is always full of challenges. Just that before I started my recovery journey i would play down the struggles and ignore/avoid them with drugs/sex/alcohol. I also believe that as i progress through life, the challenges only get bigger. more kids = more chinuch challenges = more financial pressure. Hashem doesn't change, He always has and always will provide me my basic needs until i do no need them anymore. most of what i call needs are extras and i am working hard on internalizing that. 

but back to the point - no, it is not that now i have bigger problems. i didn't get more molested by my babysitter now that I'm digging it up and working through the experiences and how it affects my life. the wreckage of my past is the same. But me avoiding dealing with things growing in the dark spaces of my soul - owning up to the incidents where others will probably be in therapy at some point because of what i did to/with them - that only allows the bitterness and darkness to grow. working through it is excruciating, but once it's out, I am then a transformed person. 

So no, my life did not get worse, and yes i was ignoring the issues i needed to deal with by escaping from them. 

I was so anxious and worried and stressed from digging up the skeletons in my soul that I have been non stop gassy for more than a day, i felt like i want to vomit all day today, and I've been dazed and confused for at least a week. 

but this is how i get through it. 

i can choose to ignore my problems and then live my (hopefully long) life un-worked on and not fulfilling my G-d given mission in this world, or i can put on my big-boy boots and get to work. 

It's the long short way. 

So far, - for me - it works. 

and i will keep on trying because i know that i have only two choices:
1. change
2. die

i don't want to die. 

hope that made sense. 

ilovehashem247 wrote on 15 May 2024 15:47:


I read through alot of your thread recently. Your strength and resolve to work on yourself is incredibly inspirational. Hearing about the traumas you went through as a youth, and seeing that despite that you are growing so much as a person, is remarkable. 

Can I just ask something? In the beginning of this thread you wrote that on the outside your life is perfect, but underneath you struggle with a whole host of addictive behaviors. Was your life so excellent then and problems have cropped up now, or was it just that your various escapes covered over everything? Just from what you've shared it sounds like the former, and it seems as if the yetzer hara is on a no holds barred campaign to overturn your progress. 
Just an observation. Keep on setting the bar for the rest of us!

ForwardProgress wrote on 14 May 2024 18:53:

You may not be able to know until you break free.  Given your circumstances your motivation for breaking free will probably have to be your relationship with yourself and with hashem. 

ForwardProgress wrote on 14 May 2024 13:02:

Welcome!!! As chooseurname mentioned, there is a ton of insight and good, sound, practical advice to be found on these forums. You will find the most understanding, encouraging and empathetic people that dispense pearls of wisdom, Chizuk when needed, the occasional constructive criticism and sometimes a loving kick in the pants.

Personally, one of the paradigm shifts that I have undergone, thanks to these wonderful forums, that has helped me break free completely (may Hashem help me stay strong) has been the realization that lust is lust period. There's a tactic that the YH has that says "this isn't really porn", or "I'm really in control", and we don't realize how damaging this is to ourselves, our outlook, and worst of all the subtle pressure we unwittingly place on our wives. I remember my first phone call to the great HHM, when he asked me why I want to stop, I responded that I feel like a hypocrite, and I fear the Yom Hadin. He then gently asked me "Did you ever consider that you're cheating on your wife?" I remember the thoughts going through my mind then. "What in the world is he talking about? Cheating? Me? I never watched a porn video in my life, I'm not so bad I don't masturbate. Cheating are people that are in affairs and behaviors that their wives don't know about" I told him that my wife understands my struggle and I'm open about it with her. He didn't back down. At the time I didn't appreciate the wisdom of his words, but over time, very gradually, I came to realize the truth of what he was telling me. Regardless of how mild the form of lust one is engaged in, it makes our our "sexual apatite" bigger until it becomes too big for them to possibly fill. They sense our dissatisfaction and realize that nothing that they can ever do naturally will ever be enough. We then feel like they're failing us. Even if you never say it, they can feel it. Then we wonder, why they're unhappy and we can't connect. If that's not cheating, what is? You're putting them in an impossible position, whatever they do, won't satisfy the void inside of us. It's not the natural way we were meant to be, and that our problem. Until I stopped rationalizing that what I was doing wasn't so bad, I was in the same vicious cycle you're describing. I also had my own excuses for what I was doing. Although mine were different then yours, until I said "enough is enough" I wasn't able to completely break free. Generally, I didn't have an issue, but then there were the "lusting days". After every time I'd tell myself "never again", only to fall again sometimes a few days, weeks, or even months later. I hope I'm not coming across as critical of you, as this is the farthest thing from my mind. Only sharing what worked for me. Try it, it may just be the ticket to your newfound Shalom Bayis!

I agree with you to some extent and really appreciate the honesty. Let me know if you think I am in denial (don't worry about being harsh - I want the truth) but I truly feel there are issues with my marriage that are not fully a result of my masturbation/explicit image viewing (not that this is any better, but I don't do actual "porn", but for purposes of this discussion I will refer to it as such). For example, I don't feel our personalities go well together and there are things about her physically that really bother me. You can make the argument that I am viewing all of her through a skewed lense, but part of what I struggle with is that even as I overcome my addiction, the negative aspects of the relationship will remain. Not sure if that is just the yetzer harah speaking, but I really truly feel that way.

ForwardProgress wrote on 14 May 2024 13:02:

Please take the following as an observation, and certainly not a condemnation. I fully understand the draw of using inappropriate sexual behavior to escape from the pain around us.

I believe that a strong connection in marriage is extremely difficult when your wife doesn't really know you.  There are walls and protections that you put in place because of your addiction.  These barriers will not let you be fully open with your wife.  If you can't be fully open and vulnerable the likelihood of strong connection (and/or attraction)  is greatly diminished.  in addition, ever since day 1 your wife has been a threat to the only outlet that has numbed the tension building up inside you.  If i understand you correctly, you have not had the opportunity to build a meaningful relationship without the side effects resulting from masturbation and (light) pornography.  

ForwardProgress wrote on 14 May 2024 13:02:

I very much relate to the first part of your issues, you seem to have a good understanding of where your struggles are coming from, which is a big plus, many people don't have clarity as too where their desires are stemming from or what's driving them. Finding ways of managing stress and depression are key, as well as a strong commitment and barriers.  

ForwardProgress wrote on 14 May 2024 14:31:

This is definitely the right place for accountability. There's a place on the website where you can sign up for a partner. I'd suggest you first reach out to some of the senior members/mentors/legends on the site. Specifically, @HashemHelpMe. His email is in his signature.

An essential (but not sufficient) step in getting clean is removing temptations to the greatest extent possible. This means filtering up to the greatest extent possible. Covenant Eyes and work monitoring are great (assuming they suitably deter you. I see what you wrote about deterring you from "hardcore" stuff.) But I think you know you gotta do something about your wife's phone. If she's resistant to covenant eyes (why should she be?) then have her change the password. I would not worry about that cluing her in - tell her some fake inspirational shuir you heard about filtering etc. etc.

Re: Marriage. The threads I threw in there are not comprehensive resources. Just examples of how working on our lust is a crucial part of working on marriage. 

Keep on posting, reading, working. 

Thank you for the response and guidance! To answer your questions:
1) I have been trying to free myself of this habit/addiction since it started. I have taken more serious steps in the past year or so, with a therapist that specializes in this area. Although we have had great conversations around understanding the addiction, I did not make any progress with changing my behaviours. He recommended I find an "accountability partner" - hence, GYE. F2F sounds like a great program - I will check that out.

2) 7 years. My wife is a very perceptive person in general and can certainly tell that I am not fully satisfied with our relationship. She can tell that I am distant. She also thinks I am not fully in touch with my emotions, but I attribute that mostly to how I engage with her as opposed to my general ability to be emotionally vulnerable. She does NOT know that I am not physically attracted to her. Thank you for sharing the resources re: shalom bayis - will check those out.

3) There are 4 internet-capable devices in my house - my wife and I each have a smartphone and laptop. My laptop is work-issued and that alone works as a deterrent from anything "hardcore" since my company can track web activity. My phone and my wife's laptop (which I also have access to) has Web Chaver (not filtered) installed, and my wife and I receive emails every week with each other's activity. My wife's phone does not have Web Chaver, so when I reach a moment of weakness while she is asleep, I use her phone for explicit content.

I just turned 30 years old (yesterday happens to be) and am posting on this site for the first time. I have been struggling with masturbation and light p*rn use (mostly lewd pictures on Instagram/Reddit, partially clothed women) for the last 12 years. I don't view my addiction as something that has completely taken over my life, but it is something that I always revert to at some point - I have been unable to fully break free. I attribute my addiction to the following two reasons:
1. Coping mechanism for anxiety/depression. I have several family members (parents and siblings) that struggle with anxiety, depression, eating disorders, etc. so one could say it is in my DNA. I am BH a very functional person with a wife, son, good job, etc. but I have constant feelings of anxiety with sporadic depression. I continue to work through my mental health challenges with a therapist, but I find masturbation/viewing inappropriate material as an "escape" / outlet for all the tense feelings that are constantly building up inside of me. It gives me something to look forward to; when I engage in this behavior I can temporarily suspend my anxious and sad thoughts and fully indulge in physical pleasure.
2. Dissatisfaction with my marriage. Granted, I started these behaviors before I was my married, but I feel they have taken on a new meaning and purpose ever since I got married. I view my wife as a great person, but ever since day 1 I have had some serious regrets in terms of us as a match both emotionally and physically. I am not particularly physically attracted to her (for sure my exposure to internet imagery plays a role here), nor do I feel we have good rapport, bantor, or a strong emotional connection. Viewing images/videos online provides me with a physical experience I am not getting out of my marriage.

I am looking to break free from these habits, but items #1 and #2 feel like constants in my life. Would love to hear any thoughts/suggestions or anyone with a similar experience. Excited to be on the road to freedom!

A SAD BUT TRUE STORY

I was speaking with my mother on the topic of shidduchim. She does not know about my battle with the y'h but the topic of secrets came up.
She told me of a story of a person in our community that got married to a top bochur in a Lakewood yeshiva at the age of 18. Ppl would ask the family "wow how did you get him for the shidduch" and other questions like that. 
Unfortunately 3 MONTHS into the marriage he was caught as an addict to pornography.
The outcome was their divorce. He is now otd and she is 33 and cant find a shidduch bc shadchanim say she is "tainted". Thats 15 yrs alone.

There are so many takeaways from this story and I hope we all interpret this and use it to better ourselves.

Although everyone's struggles are similar in certain ways, each and every person has his own unique experience, and it would be very wrong to compare two people. I for instance was never an addict, I have almost no desire at the moment, and I am familiar with psychotherapy for decades. What does my success say about someone else who is struggling a lot?

I have many things that physically and spiritually due to my health I am behind almost everyone. What good will it do me to compare myself to others? I know that Hashem wants me to focus on my challenges on my yardstick and see whether I am making any progress from the day before. That is all he wants from me and that is all he wants from you. It is very unhealthy and unproductive to start comparing ourselves to others. All that does is takes away from our focus on our responsibilities and leads us to analyzing our egos instead.

So...
Second meeting with my Rebbi.
It's a lot easier and not as impactful as the first meeting but I think it is just as helpful.

This wasnt the first topic but I wanted to clear this first about telling a date.
He said that you only need to tell if it's something that you can't live without doing atleast once every couple of months. If you are past it you should not tell. (This is not an exact quote and not a psak)

I think something I am coming to notice is that my main goal right now is to make this nisoyon not a huge part of my life. As of now I feel as if it's a defining feature of myself.
I brought this up and he agreed and said that this feeling may even come along on its own as I progress in recovery.

Another problem I am having is that I don't know what to do to relieve stress and anxiety. Before I stopped porn and mainly masterbation I never reached for it specifically and consciously to deal with my stresses of life, it was more of a subconscious thing that since I would masterbate I would just regulate the stress and anxiety.
I asked him about how I can deal with this problem I am having of not being able to relax. He mentioned that one of the signs of an addict are, when you ask him what he likes to do for fun his answer is "I don't know". This is because most people learn how to relax naturally while we learnt to use porn and/or masterbation to relax.
He suggested that I start making a list of things I enjoy. Also that I need to learn to notice when I am stress and to learn how to regulate it and not just stay in the stress.

The meeting was great and I am still processing this and the other things talked about.

Thank you everyone here.

(Just a tip on something that I think helps with getting clean that I told my Rebbi off hand during this meeting. I mentioned that I didn't count the first 108 day clean streak and that even now I checkin each day but I don't think of the days, I let GYE count for me and have it in the back of my mind. 

The goal isn't to stay clean for a certain amount of days, its to stay clean as long as possible.
Don't get caught on what day but have it in mind.
It's somewhat like the Kosel, your not davening TO the wall but in the place the wall is. Don't get lost in the count, but use the count to get clean.)

hi guys

quick update, I've been working the 12 steps - primarily in AA but also go to one SA meeting a week consistently
have been seeing gradual changes in the way i interact with those around me and my attitude towards life

I'm no longer always the victim
I'm also no longer always the instigator

working the 4th step ( compiling a list of resentments, fears, and sexual damages to others) made me realize that i have a part in every machloket, and that that I have some consistent negative middot that are connected with most of these resentments. 

clarifying what exactly they are as i do the 5th step (sharing with another person, in this case my sponsor) and not surprisingly, jealousy, rage, and ego are big culprits. 

learning to live without the need for a high - whether from a drink, drug, or sexual [mis]adventure. 
it's pleasant, and a bit unsettling. I can be ok with my wife grumping at me, and i don't have to get angry. 

intensive personal trauma/addiction therapy and weekly marriage counseling is a big help in the process. 
I'm getting financial aid in the therapies, which makes a big difference. 

I'm nervous that i will drop these new behaviors after the initial excitement, but realistically i think it is feasible to stay on this path if i only remember 3 important facts: 
1. I am an addict - powerless over drugs, alcohol, and lust (took me almost a year to admit that!) and that they make my life completely unmanageable
2. Only a power greater than my own self-will can restore me to sanity from my state of insanity, and that power is Hashem
3. He will relieve me of the obsession and grant me a daily reprieve if only i let him in to my life, and make an intense daily effort to life a spiritual life 

there are 5 things i do pretty much every day:
1. Pray to Hashem right when i wake up that he should relieve me of my addiction for today and give me the strength and wisdom to do the right thing - to not drink, drug, or act out
2. read a "daily reflection," a little blurb from the AA literature with a message for sobriety
3. Call my sponsor between 9-10am
4. call guys from my AA/SA network early in the day, and as a struggle comes up throughout the day. goal is to reach out to 5 guys, sometimes i reach them and sometimes I don't and that's fine. 
5. go to a meeting. 

I've found that what works best for me is to stick close to the guys who have what I want and to do what they do. 

I've been told that there is no shame or guilt in being an alcoholic/addict, so long as we actively do something about it. We've all done some pretty messed up stuff while under the influence of [i]pick your poison[/i]]. We didn't choose this. It is a G-d-given test to us, tailor made for us to reach our potential. But if we know that we can do something about it, and don't, then we are practically criminally negligent for damages we caused to ourselves and others. 

Our families and friends deserve better. 
WE deserve better! 
Hashem expects us to work hard to accomplish our potential. 

So from a stranger on the internet, here''s a helping hand - if you're reading this today , then you - specifically - need to do something about your struggle. 

It's ok to ask for help, and it's ok to cry about what's happened in your life. 

Know that you are not the first to be going through this struggle, and in the world we live in today, definately not the last. 

So pick up the phone or go up to someone safe and confide in them. ask for help. maybe you are not addicted, and maybe you've not yet hit rock bottom. but it's no fun to find out the hard way, let me tell you! 

so good luck and farewell until next time, 

ILH247

<3 

chooseurname wrote on 08 May 2024 14:44:

An absolutely agonizing thread . One that but for the grace of Hashem could have been written by almost everyone here.
Thank You Hashem for not having me be the author of that thread.