Hi, I’ve been struggling with porn since I was a teenager. I’ve been trying to stop for a very long time but I’ve never really been able to shake it completely. Even if I stayed away for a good couple of months I ultimately always fell back into it. 

A little over a year ago I flirted with cam sites for the first time. At first I was too scared to engage but after a few times I got more comfortable and even spent money on it. I felt absolutely horrible about it but the pull was stronger than anything I had felt before. 

Thankfully, after about a week of this I was able to pull myself out of it. The next stretch was my best, close to a full year away from all of it. 

Recently, however, I fell right back into it. It started with watching porn but I was quickly back at those sites. 

I’ve never shared this with anyone, I never knew if I was addicted or just normal, it all seems so confusing. But with this recent struggle I’ve decided to do something I never tried before. Speak about it. 

This is my struggle. If anyone has advice or words of wisdom, please share. 

Thank you

Not sure how to put all my thoughts and feelings down but here goes,
I have tremendous appreciation and recognition of all the guys here on GYE, this is where I really started my recovery and it's amazing to think back to how things used to be and how much they've changed. Going from unable to last more than a few days (and only when I was really committed to quitting) to feeling totally free from porn and masturbation is incredible.
I'm starting to realize that for my recovery there are really 3 stages (each one having many many steps and taking tremendous amounts of work):
stage one is breaking the constant use of porn. this was not easy and took the better of 2 years but I feel like I've made it past this stage. but it must be understood that just breaking the regularity of the habit does not mean I was free, I still struggled from time to time and many times almost fell, and in some cases did fall. breaking out was more a product of following the F2F program and continuously recommitting after every fall (again not easy and I didn't do it every time).  I honestly can't even really explain how it happened. Surprisingly this now feels like the easiest part of recovery.
Second stage is reapproaching intimacy within marriage: having an improper approach to intimacy with my wife caused a lot of frustration (which is a trigger for porn), there were weeks when I felt the constant pain of rejection, worthlessness, and loneliness. theses were the times when I figured it would be better to get divorced and go back to porn just so that I didn't have to live my life in such misery. I considered suicide a better option even though I knew that was crazy. Note this was after being clean for almost six months, totally clean of any porn or masturbation, but getting dealt those blows to my heart which stemmed from poor intimacy almost made me give up. I wasn't having the usual urges to get a fix, but I needed to get out of the pain and I knew that if I always had porn to turn to, then the rejection wouldn't hurt as bad because, simply I had something else I could always depend on. I am still working on this stage. it takes a long time and work from both husband and wife. It's not just working on the bedroom but on the whole relationship, as well as readjusting my perspective on intimacy in the marriage.
Stage 3: this is for myself the most difficult to face. But first a bit of background.
I grew up in a home filled with anger and fear, there was always yelling and crying. It was normal to be belittled for not doing something right or for not knowing something. When I was 10 I was sexually abused by my brother. The craziest part was that by that time I was so emotionally damaged that I craved to connection it formed between us because, I wasn't connecting with anyone else in my family. the sexual abuse didn't last long but the emotional neglect and abuse continued and to some extent still exists today. for over 20 years I have been shoving my emotions down always pushing myself to be strong and don't get knocked down the the emotional tidal wave that threatens to consume me. But I now recognize the dmage that it did. I have a deeply imbedded beleif that I am worthless and no one will ever really love me or care about me. When I make mistakes I believe that everything I do is worthless. My years in yeshiva, my friendships and my marriage. This has hurt me so much by limiting my ability to be honest with people and take risks. It also makes me unable to do what I feel what is right, instead I trade it for doing what others will approve of (namely my father who continues to put me down for not doing what he feels is important). 
My experiences also damaged my ability to deeply connect with people. How can I trust someone, they might hurt me, and they will surely never love me.
The hardest part of my day now is journaling my feelings and memories of my childhood. This is hard because it forces me to face the brokenness inside, admitting how unhealthy I have become.
But it will not stop me.
I have worked too hard and come too far to let this stop me. I will feel the pain and I will relive those memories so that I can grow. So I can continue to be free from the death grip of addiction. So that I can love my wife and know deep down in my heart that she loves me too. So that I can be here in tis world to help others who went through hell and need someone to give them a hand and pull them up to the heavens. 
I will not let what someone else has done to me, not matter how bad and evil, define what I will make of myself.
And I will not stop to make Hashem proud of me.

I hope that some of you will find this helpful and if you have any questions or want to chat you can PM me.
Thanks again for being the most amazing group of warriors in Hashems army. And also a great group of friends

siyatta wrote on 09 May 2024 21:01:

siyatta wrote on 10 May 2024 14:00:

Fascinating discussion. One that I’ve given a lot of thought to when I was first finding my way around these forums. When I noticed the same thing you did, that there are 2 groups, one that somehow breaks free, and one that keeps on going in circles, the question you brought up started bothering me to no end. I desperately wanted to be part of the first group, but I could not see a clear difference between them. They both wrote about the same things. There are people in both categories that have reached out to others, whether it was through these forums or on the phone. Both have tried the ideas of ODAAT, different methods of accountability, WebChaver, Taphsic, white knuckling, willpower, and all the wonderful ideas this website is full of, some have met with success others not. There are loopholes to everything, yet every one of these methods have some people that used them successfully to break free. I even found a thread from way back (the name of which eludes me right now) (He just updated for the first time in 2 years, it's called "Fifty Years" by Dovid824 in the What works for me section) where the writer was steeped in כל דבר אסור, yet writes there that he decided to break free, but all of the conventional methods aren’t going to work for him. He writes there that he thinks that all he needs to do is make a commitment to stop and he thinks it will work. How many have tried that successfully, and failed miserably? Lo and behold, he broke free. He details his progress by years (maybe by 100’s of days I don’t recall) not days and every year on his anniversary, he checks in. Another case in point, Vehkam’s thread where he writes that for him (and I’ve seen this by others as well) putting on the filter was not what he needed to do. For the average person trying to break free, this is imperative, why for him not? It takes a giant of a man like Vehkam to have the self awareness of knowing exactly what he needs to do, but this only makes the question stronger, why did it work for him and not for so many others. In short we see different methods working for some, but not for everyone. What lays behind the one’s that are successful? This question plagued me to no end, I thought long and hard about it, until I reached what I believe to be somewhat of an answer. (In no way am I challenging the insightful answers of the previous posts, this is just what I came  up with. It helped for me, so I thought I’d pass it on.)

I’d like to preface my conclusion with a well known story of Reb Moshe זצ"ל. He was once given a ride, when he entered the car someone closed the door on his hand. Reb Moshe didn’t flinch, no reaction whatsoever. When the car rounded the corner and was out of sight ר"מ asked the driver to stop so he could extricate his hand from the door. Let’s analyze this story a little. Superficially, we see the גדלות of  Reb Moshe’s בין אדם לחבירו that he was even able to overcome physical pain in order not to shame another Yid. Very possible, but if that was the case wouldn’t there be at least be a knee jerk reaction, a cry of “ouch”. Perhaps not, maybe he was so refined and so in control of his emotions, that he was able to control himself to that extent. However on a deeper level there’s a lot more to the story. Reb Moshe, through years of יגיעה and עמילות בתורה, perfected and polished the essence of his soul to such a level that his מדות reflected what a human being is capable of attaining. His sensitivity and care of a fellow Jew were honed to such a degree of perfection that it was more painful to him cause another Yid embarrassment, then to experience the pain of a physical hand injury. Choosing not to react was instinctive, there was no deliberation on his part about what was right or wrong to do. He was “merely” going with the less painful option. (I believe I heard this beautiful insight on a recording from R’ Akiva Tatz) This wasn’t a one time story, it was a manifestation of the value system that he managed to incorporate in to the fibre of his soul. What a human being can attain!!!

The human being is conditioned in such a way, that he will almost always choose the path of the least resistance. האלוקים עשה את האדם ישר והמה בקשו חשבונות רבים. Man in it’s perfect state has no stronger desire then to cleave to ה' through his תורה. If we could somehow experience the pleasure Rav Elyashiv (or any true גדול) had from a Blatt גמ', even the biggest addict would be cured, the pleasure he would get from learning would eclipse the pleasure any indulgence in whatever gives him his fix. It takes a lifetime of work to cultivate that pleasure, it doesn’t come easy, but those few who have attained it, no physical pleasure in the world can hold a candle to it. At that exalted point learning and עבודת ה' becomes the path of least resistance.

Now on the flip side, if one indulges in lust and promiscuous behavior, he gets a certain level of pleasure out of it. However, the pleasure comes with a price, that yucky feeling we are all too familiar with. The more one becomes entrenched in his ways, the greater the feelings of disgust that person has with himself becomes. Even though he wants to stop the bad feeling, he feels helpless because the “high” he experiences when engaged in the at far exceeds any guilty feelings he might have. Paradoxically his life may be spiraling out of control, but he can’t seem to break out the vicious cycles, because the more he uses the needier he becomes. After a while he needs to increase the dosage to stimulate himself, the previous dosage won’t suffice to get him to the “high” he needs. When a person quits because of idealistic reasons, whether they stem from inspiration, תורה or מוסר, he will have a very hard time maintaining his resolve. Inspiration wears off, and our hero often finds himself in tough situations that life may throw at him, where he will very likely revert to his past bad habits. Even different methods might only meet with limited success, because as long as the sweetness of sin is greater than the feelings of guilt, worthlessness etc. it will remain his go to pacifier for any obstacles that may arise. The path of least resistance is for him to fall back to his old comfortable ways.

At a certain point he hits rock bottom. Rock bottom is defined when the pain he’s going through exceeds the feeling of pleasure and he realizes that he’s in a never ending cycle. He comes to the realization that a pain filled life like the one he’s in is not worth living. At that point he’ll do anything and everything to climb out of his situation. Then despite the hard work ahead of him, he’s hit with the realization that the path of least resistance is for him to role up his sleeves and get to work. It’s the less painful choice between hard work and living a life he feels is not worth living. (להבדיל, for Reb Moshe, a life where he would even unwittingly inflict pain on another Yid was not life worth living, so he made the less painful choice of having a car door slammed on his hand.) That first crack of clarity is what spurs him to make real long lasting change. This is we we can give him all the different techniques and ideas that GYE has to offer. For different people , different things will work. For someone with a full blown addiction the twelve steps might be necessary. For someone not so deeply entrenched, he may be able to use less drastic measures.

Hitting rock bottom can take place on many levels. For those that hit “rock bottom while still on top”, it might be the feelings of hypocrisy that they are presenting themselves to the public as someone who they’re not. This seems to be common among those in Chinuch positions. The torture of having a reputation as a Chashuve מחנך, knowing that one is viewing inappropriate material can lead one to feeling of disgust with himself, that this is not the way I can continue to live my life. For others it  might be the threat of losing there reputation, for others they must sink even lower until they reach a point where they’ll lose their families. The common denominator is when the person realizes that although it’s gonna take a herculean effort to overcome, it’s still better then the alternative life. As long as a person has in the back of his mind, that in case of an emergency I can still always go back, he hasn’t reached that point yet. Obviously there are going to be some exceptions to these ideas, but this was what I cameup with that helped me.  May ה' help us all taste the pleasure that a תורה filled life free from lust has to offer. Sorry for the lengthy response. Hope it made at least a little sense.

I am super happy for you and for the others who will gain inspiration from your post.
I am 6 months whistle clean, not even hirhurim and over 2 1/2 years of not acting out by looking for some real action. It is a miracle from Above. I take one day at a time. Do a lot of praying, calls, meetings, reading SA and Big Book literature and have some very sober friends in recovery. My life is very challenging and I escaped into Tivas nashim to give me a feeling of relief from my emotional pain and suffering. But it didn't solve my problems. It just got me addicted. May Hashem give me and all of you another day of sobriety and freedom from lust.

guardyouriz wrote on 17 May 2024 16:53:

When we talk about sex addiction as a problem of illness and not Yetzer Hara, we mean Clinical addiction, which is when a person is fundamentally sick in  the way he lives and relates to life. Not just that he has a porn problem, no matter if he only masturbated once or has been to strip clubs or cheated with prostitutes C"V, but that somewhere inside and deep down, he really wants and needs an escape from life. So it's not really coming from the Yetzer Hara anymore. Most of the people on this forum, while we may have underlying things that drive us to porn, we Baruch Hashem aren't at a point where we may have actually lost Bechira, which may be with a clinical addict. So what I am saying, in essence, is not to confuse the GYE advertising message of "There are thousands of people who are addicted" with the message of illness, which is only for the tiny percentage of GYEers who are actually addicts. R' Akiva Tatz has a story that illustrates full addiction: When he was doing his medical residency, there was an engineer in the hospital who had a rare disease where smoking cut off blood flow to his limbs. He'd already lost fingers R"L. And they told him, if you continue, you can lose an arm. He saw the same, educated person, a while later, in a wheelchair, smoking as they wheeled him in to lose his other remaining arm R"L.

guardyouriz wrote on 17 May 2024 16:51:

Strong language warning: On two of the topics here, I will attach posts from Dov. One is where he addresses whether we really have the disgust for women we often claim to, and the other two discuss lust and objectification by including the female perspective. Included in the third is a solution for objectification:




And one more gem:

guardyouriz wrote on 16 May 2024 00:49:

As Mark Twain said about the pains of quitting smoking: "It’s easy. Done it a thousand times."
If you can stop on your own go ahead - why are you on here?
As per your original q SA for sure is a solution - feel free to pm me

jackthejew wrote on 17 May 2024 16:39:

i lack clarity in the point that you are tying to make

guardyouriz wrote on 16 May 2024 00:49:

To be clear. The addiction talked about as an illness is a clinical / SA defined addiction. According to Dov, most guys on this forum aren't addicts.

parev wrote on 16 May 2024 13:02:

I appreciate the clarification. there’s a lot of food for thought here. Thanks!

A concept formed when I was responding to a PM regarding what worked for me.

Part of my success, I believe, was turning shame into pride. Not dwelling on what I did or how many times, rather focusing on what I can do and who I can be.

Instead of trying to leave it behind by running away, I ran forward. If I’m running away, then it is chasing me. I can’t properly move on while constantly glancing over my shoulder. That impedes my forward progress. When I run forward, what is behind be becomes less consequential. I’m not looking that way. My direction is towards my real self and Hashem. I can actualize and achieve my potentials as my focus is on where I’m headed.

For a practical example: When driving down suburban roads, if there are people on the sidewalk (in particular, women) I remind myself that whoever they are (and whatever other details about them) are really not significant to me. When I get closer, I’ll even close one eye on that side to assist with not paying them much if any attention (obviously need to drive safely). Maybe this seems like overkill, but I value doing it. I think it is praiseworthy. I think I’m elevating myself by doing it. And perhaps most importantly, I think it gives me something that I’m challenging myself to do as a refinement – which places me outside the more raw challenges of the past. I can’t do everything, no one can, but that is certainly no excuse to do nothing. Each choice we make to get closer to Hashem matters a great deal. Perhaps I skip minyanim, waste time with idle tasks, speak lashon hara, get angry, say brachos without kavana, and all manner of other things that I can and should improve on. None of that excuses or excludes me from working on shemiras einayim. In this I can and will work to be at the very top.

This worked for me. I am me. I am not you. You are you. You are not me. You are greater than me. I am greater than you. It depends who’s asking. Don’t be me, you are and need to be you. Only then could you be better than me. I would not say I was an addict. It was more impulse and desire. Still the yetzer hara. Still a challenge. Still my challenge. I filtered my phone. I stopped watching everything. I stopped listening to everything. I stopped reading everything. I removed myself from regular tasks and groups that did not benefit what I wanted for myself. I now listen to 1000s of shiurim. I learn more sefarim (in English, because that is what I can do). I am more available for my wife and children. I have more chavrusas. I daven better. I have real, positive, and meaningful goals. I happen to have an unfiltered computer for work and a tablet at home currently and despite being home alone for many hours each week, Hashem has not given the yetzer hara any power to even come close to tempting me with that. He has blessed me and placed it far from me. My fight has moved on to the next stage, as it will continue to do ad olam acharon. On this mountain my concern is not with the ground below, only with reaching for the next firm handhold above, and never letting go.

guardyouriz wrote on 16 May 2024 00:49:

I can also stop smoking whenever I want, I've stopped so many times in the past.

Can you please explain how attending a mixed SA group, full of addicts of both genders, is recommended for a person whose challenges include having affairs with “many many” women and who is attracted to women at the meetings? Are there no men-only groups?

Since there are not many replies and since the above q was the catalyst of this thread let me share something.
There was a question brought up at a recent conference: Is it recommended to attend mixed sa meetings? Ther was group discussions and there were some very heated arguments. Many attested that their recovery ONLY came through those mixed meetings
There are several reasons why this can be.
1] that was the meeting convenience/able to go to
2] that was a strong meeting with good recovery
3] learnt how to DE objectify women
4] helped him internalize that lust is an issue for them too [was a guy that had alot of affairs
5] learnt how to deal with women in a controlled setting [boundaries etc]
and more.
The bottom line was ask your sponsor and do whats good for you, but there are 2 sides to everyting...

hello chevra. just a quick question .ive been  reading here that sex addiction is an ILLNESS and not a sin/yetzer haara.
just because his addiction caused his brain to want porn because of the feeling of getting his fix. why is that an illness and not a yetzer hara? i personaly think i have a shtikel addiction ,but its not so serious because i can stop whenever i want.

Great Q, and thought provoking as well. I think that the best way to frame it is that by the external societal standards of the world I grew up in, i was doing well. Like i mentioned originally I was (seemingly from the outside) financially secure, married with a growing family, involved in charity and institutions, and set for materialistic success. 

as i am realizing more and more now as i progress through this journey, life is always full of challenges. Just that before I started my recovery journey i would play down the struggles and ignore/avoid them with drugs/sex/alcohol. I also believe that as i progress through life, the challenges only get bigger. more kids = more chinuch challenges = more financial pressure. Hashem doesn't change, He always has and always will provide me my basic needs until i do no need them anymore. most of what i call needs are extras and i am working hard on internalizing that. 

but back to the point - no, it is not that now i have bigger problems. i didn't get more molested by my babysitter now that I'm digging it up and working through the experiences and how it affects my life. the wreckage of my past is the same. But me avoiding dealing with things growing in the dark spaces of my soul - owning up to the incidents where others will probably be in therapy at some point because of what i did to/with them - that only allows the bitterness and darkness to grow. working through it is excruciating, but once it's out, I am then a transformed person. 

So no, my life did not get worse, and yes i was ignoring the issues i needed to deal with by escaping from them. 

I was so anxious and worried and stressed from digging up the skeletons in my soul that I have been non stop gassy for more than a day, i felt like i want to vomit all day today, and I've been dazed and confused for at least a week. 

but this is how i get through it. 

i can choose to ignore my problems and then live my (hopefully long) life un-worked on and not fulfilling my G-d given mission in this world, or i can put on my big-boy boots and get to work. 

It's the long short way. 

So far, - for me - it works. 

and i will keep on trying because i know that i have only two choices:
1. change
2. die

i don't want to die. 

hope that made sense.