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20 Apr 2017 15:02

Yoseph1

Mainly just wanting to use and nail biting through the first few days. The awakening, as I call it is tough also. Having a few days clean and receiving that moment of clarity where you realize how selfish and self destructive you have been. I've realized that I make excuses for my terrible relationship with HaShem when I am in active addiction, convincing myself that he doesn't care about me at all. In sobriety I realize how ridiculous this is and I feel shame for my behavior. Changing habits, such as what I am looking at in the restroom, before bed etc...is another. Picking up a book or studying Torah rather than reaching for my phone. Re-connecting with my wife and making her feel appreciated with sincerity. But mainly just the course correction in my heart on a daily basis. Getting in GYE and posting is helping. Going to meetings is helping also. I feel strength building within.
Category: Break Free
20 Apr 2017 13:18

GrowStrong

IBelongtoHashem wrote on 20 Apr 2017 12:48:
Hello, could someone tell me about whether or not masturbation WITHOUT ejaculation AND without looking at or thinking about dirty images is still a sin?  If I only think about my wife and masturbate without ejaculation (wasting seed), is this still a sin?  If so, please explain how bad is this sin?  

My wife has abnormally long periods of niddah (3-4 weeks plus sometimes) and it is REALLY difficult to struggle through these periods without some sort of relief, so I would really like a specific answer to this question if available.

Also, please use references if available. Thank you.

Response:
I have several.
1) This is a forum of sex addicts and sex addicts who are not addicts - this is not a forum of Poskim.
2) As someone pointed out to me recently tantric masturbation still causes the seed to escape afterwards when going to the toilet, so this may be an issue if you are trying to not lose seed.
3) Did you really master tantric masturbation???
4) What are you actually trying to achieve?
5) Would you like to learn how to not struggle through these long periods? I am learning how to do it and I can tell you its more than possible.
Category: Important Threads
20 Apr 2017 00:45

Hashivalisesonyishecho

Now that I mean business, I'm trying to be realistic as well. I used to have a fantasy of being 'derhoiben' in marital relations. At this point I've cast that aside for the foreseeable future. Wife = Mutar, Other = Assur. Truth, honesty, and clarity is worth everything.

Again, this approach is probably relevant only for people who aren't really addicts.
Category: Break Free
19 Apr 2017 18:24

Chaimel

Thanks for sharing! I too (think) I fall in this category of 'have a problem but not addicted'
good luck in your journey!!!
Category: Break Free
19 Apr 2017 16:15

sodoja

Please excuse any typos....

 שלום עליכם to the entire GYE community, i am finally here after my long נסיעה of almost 30 years!!! Yes, 30 years i was looking to whom i can turn, tell my story, and feel comfortable that nobody will find out what goes on deep in me, and will help me get out from there, but with no luck, but FINALLY FINALLY i find what i was looking for, it took me 30 years, i wish i could get here earlier, wow what a zchus for all GYE members...

יראתי בפצותי שיח להשחיל, I’m debating for the last 2 weeks, should I write my story, or shouldn’t, shouldn’t I, because, once its written, there is no way back, my story is out, and I don’t know if someone part in my story will get hurt, or will someone find out my real identity, and on top of that, my mind keeps on telling me, that תשובה can’t come through the internet, the internet is so טמא and how can it come from that direction, we are used to do תשובה through Misser, Sifrei Kodesh, Tzdakah, Sigufim,  etc. but not on the internet, but then I figured that, if I can get out from my sickness through the internet, I just don’t care, will do תשובה on that after I’ll do תשובה on my sickness, and its only another trick from my יצר הרע.

So before i will introduce myself from where I’m coming all this years, let me tell you why I’m telling you my long story, and there are many reasons, 1) i have read a lot of posts here, and i feel that in order to get to the right healing and to get the right chizuk on my new long journey, i must write my long story, so everyone will understand me, 2) דאגה בלב איש, ישחנה לאחרים, shlomo hamelech tells us that if you have anything stressing on your chest, if you tell it for someone, then it will help your healing, 3) צרת הרבים חצי נחמה, as i have read on many posts, i sew I’m not the only one suffering this sickness, so i felt right away healed somewhat, so why should i held off someone else healing, 4) מצוות וידוי, in order to do תשובה there must be a וידוי, so i feel that this will be the starting point of my תשובה, and there is many other reasons.

I'm part of this great and wonderful community since a week before pesach, and i got to tell you, that this is what i was missing and was looking for, for the last 30 year, yes 30 years I’m looking to get out from my sickness and addiction, and to find someone with whom i can talk about my biggest problem in life, i hold it in me for 30 year, and just to get my story out of me is a 50% healing, now i know that’s a sickness that need to be healed, and the "one day at a time" strategy which really works, (i used to make charts of months which never worked).

so, let me start my story.

I’m a chasidish yingerman from Boro Park, married to my beloved wife and five children, I’m the yingerman who everyone is looking up to, at home, in my family or at my wife’s family, in shul, all my friends, my outside of me tells that I’m the frum geshmak chasidish yingerman, I’m davening ehrlich, I’m learning every morning and night, I’m basically more than average yingerman, geshmak, always have a dvar halacha to say, whenever there is a kipka I’m there should it be halacha, gamara, or chasides, or any other argument.

but that’s only the outside, what’s going on inside? that’s the opposite on an extreme 365 turn, if anybody should know who I am really? i would be expelled from anywhere, family, shul, and friends, I’m so dusty, dirty, and טמא,

i started to acting out as early when i was 8 or 9 years old, (that’s what i remember) i remember the first time getting this terrible urge to act out, when the flame got turn on big time, when i used to go to my maternal grandfather, (we lived 10 children in a 3 bedroom apartment so i was sleeping many times at my grandfather’s house) and he used to have all kinds of magazines and newspapers at home, like USA Today, The NY Times and so on, he is very into the news, and i was looking at the pictures of the ads there, of all exposed woman, (not that exposed we see on porn sites, but at that time to me, it was called big time exposed) which such pics was very new to me, it was like a first time viewing at porn sites, which it flairs you up right away, you don’t have to do anything to get you wet, at home i never sew this kind of pics, and i got so turned on, i just couldn't resist of not acting out, i couldn't wait to get again to my grandfather’s house, so i can get more of this images to my head, i feel that, that was my killer of all this years, my parents just dint know and don’t know as of today what they did to me when they sent me sleeping there, (I’m not blaming them, it’s just part of my story).

my next stage down was later when i was in yeshivah, (but in-between i didn’t stop masturbating) as i was a 14 year old bucher, [removed by editor], i went to my magid shier and i told him what's going on, and he didn’t believe me, because that boy was from the top boys in class, i, just got the פסק that I’m at fault, for no good reason, but eventually he changed my seat, just so, this boy could kill another bucher, but after all, even i was damaged already from before, this incident just added some fuel to the fire, i just became worse,

then i left this yeshivah, at the age 16 i left to one of the greatest yeshives in Europe, i slept in the dormitory, there i became a very good friend with one of the bucherim, and we became so close, that someone told us in yeshivah that we are like a couple, we didn’t do anything without each other, we flew home all the time at bein hazmanim on the same flight, we learned bchavrisah, we went to collect money together, we were really close with each other, BUT, what happen as the time went on, was not that good, i don’t remember how it happened, [removed by editor], but we had our יצר הרע, (we slept in one room with 3 boys, myself, my buddy, and one other bucher, and while we were making out we thought that he is sleeping, and he don’t know what’s going on, which later on turned out false, as I’ll talk about it later) until my friend decided to stop it, and to let go our friendship, he probably did it because his other friends opened him up, that we are in a crazy friendship, i was very hurt, but deep down, i know that we had to stop it so i couldn't hold him up, i tried but it didn’t go, but i continued acting out by myself, in a very disturbing way, every night i masturbate in bed, but i didn’t have any interactions with anyone else, just by myself, and i need to mention, and it’s very true, that i never ever was the one who initiate any of the wrong doing, at any place, and with any one, i was the one who was asked out.

then i switched yeshivah to upstate NY, and the 3rd bucher (mentioned earlier) with whom i slept in Europe yeshivah came together with me, and i was very close with him from the previous yeshiva, and he slept at his uncles house, around the corner of the yeshivah, and i slept in dormitory, so he started to ask me i should walk him home at night after yeshivah, because he is afraid to go home alone, so i did, i didn’t thought it will take me any were, after a few nights, he started touching me, i was shocked, and i refused, since i was the “GOOD” bucher, and i wasn’t that close with him, like the other one, then he told me that he sew us in the European yeshivah doing inappropriate things, and nothing happened, (what a blow) and he will never tell anybody, bla bla bla, so that’s when i started again to interact with someone else, [removed by editor].... nebech nebech...... im so ashamed from him when i see him on the street...

eventually he got married before me, and he left yeshivah, i was continuing wrong doing here and there.

but one thing before we go ahead, i was every other day so depressed on what's going on, i was davening, gave tsdakkeh, did charts, i tried everything, nothing helped me to get out of the sickness.

then i got married, i really thought that this will heal me, as they say, a wife is not a doctor, but it just got worse... yes, i didn’t have my friends to act out with, but i had myself, even I’m having my wife, but it wasn’t enough, i got wet every night before going to sleep, my wife kept on telling me i should stop doing what I’m doing, but i asked her back, stopping what? I tried to play it dumb, that I don’t know what she want from me, i had times when she looked down at me very low, but i ignored that, it came a time that she just start living with the situation, we have children, and we have no other choice, will have to live like that for them, but today, to me it looks like she don’t really know what’s going on.

but the punch line came about 2 years after my wedding,

i never knew what porn and triple x means, until my father advised me i should buy a computer at home so i can get familiar with it, so i can get a job, i should learn Word , Excel, etc. i was still in kollel at that time, we had dialup connection, but i didn’t know really what the internet is all about, and one night i was at a family שבע ברכות and one of my cousin’s was joking around at the table about triple x, i didn’t have any idea what it is, so the other day at lunch time i came home from kollel, my wife worked in Manhattan so she wasn't home, and at that time there was no Internet filters at all, so i search about triple x, רבותי, i don’t have the right words how to explain what it did to me in just one hour, i thought until then that I’m so low, because i was looking on ladies exposed a little here and there, and that was for me the biggest turn on, but now, after my new internet search, i got to the lowest of the lowest point of my life, it was the first time of my life, i saw people doing the lowest things a human being can do, i got wet even before doing anything, just by looking, and that killed my soul completely, i thought before that, that i can't go lower, at that day, an hour later, when i went back to kollel, i was a completely new person, better to say, a new בהמה, so this went on for a few weeks, at lunch time I was fully engulfed on the internet, looking at porn sites, it was terrible, after a few weeks i got rid of the computer, I had to do it, because I felt really sick, I was really drained and tired physical and psychological, from that much masturbating, day and night, I told my wife that being on the computer late at night is not good for us, so I got my way out without telling her the true story behind it, but the damage was done.

so my rollercoaster goes on and on and on, i had after kollel 3 jobs including my current one, and most of the day I’m on porn sites, I’m managing that my managers shouldn't find out, since i know well how networks are working so i know how to get the work around, (at least i think so, who knows) little does my busses know how much I’m working, which besides of doing bad about Moitse Zera Levaatula, its bad because of stealing money, i keep on masturbating at night in bed, i used to have my phone charged next to my bed, and what turned out was, that when my wife was asleep, at the beginning of the night and much more in the morning, even before washing my hands i find myself searching for porn and masturbating, so my day started and ended with watching all kinds of porn, i was watching porn in job, looking around in mikvah at undressed people, driving around with the car to find attractive woman, all day fantasizing how I’m making out with other woman, what a miracle that there is no female employees in our company, if it would, I would definitely hold at another step down, ודי למבין, in short, I am dirty, low low low, טמא,

and while riding the rollercoaster I’m still trying to stay clean too, the longest i could stay clean was for maybe 10 days, and by now i just feel that’s a waste of time, i just can’t struggle with that rollercoaster, and i just don’t try any more to stay clean, I’m just keeping on what I’m doing for the last 30 years, just doing what I’m not supposed to do, and by now it feels good, but a minute after the action i feel so bad,

before i go further, i have to say what i feel it took me on my wrong drive, so i can get myself to the opposite direction, and that’s one thing, the ראיה, LOOKING where we are not allowed to, and its subdivided in 2, 1) obviously porn sites, and undressed woman, like in the summer days, 2) Jewish ladies going on the streets clothed in fitted clothing, where there is nothing left for imagination, and the second i feel is in a sense worse than the first, i feel that there is room for a big TIKEN in this subject,

so here is the punch line!!!

i finally got an email a week before pesach, introducing GYE, i don’t know how i got on the email list, but i got it, but before i get to my first experience with GYE, i need to mention an interesting story, on the day of Erev Rosh Chodesh Nisen i went to the Monroe Cemetery, its an עת רצון at that day, so i went to the kever of the satmar rebbi, and to my 2 grandfathers keverim and was praying with tears that they should help me with my kedisha problems, i told them that I’m not davening for me, because for myself I’m for now fine, i love to do what i do, but I’m begging them just for kvod shumiyim, the רבוש"ע dont want i should keep on doing what i am doing, and they must help me, then i went to my best friends kever, i was very closed with him, he died at a very young age, he was like 23 years, and i begged him he should do me a favor, and be מתפלל for me, i should become clean, after a week of that day the miracle happened, i got the email from GYE, so i started looking around at the site, what should i tell you, i was amazed about all the info, the 90 days chart, the forum, how much help there is all over, the chizik you get here, I’m just crying why in the world didn’t i know about it earlier, right away i signed up for the daily emails, the 90 day chart, and the main thing what I found out was, that it’s not about ups and downs any more, it’s about a real sickness which has to be healed and then we can start doing תשובה and i hope to be מצליח.

to finalize, the big problem is, the isser of masturbating, how do we get there? because of the ראיה, i need to work on myself not to look at porn, so i did install good filters on my phone and at job, then i have the problem on the street, looking on woman, so I’m working on that too, there is nothing to argue, that this is our biggest נסיון in today’s day of date, and it’s a stupidity not be strong at it, because you don’t gain ANYTHING from it, just the opposite.... but it’s hard, that’s what our job is on this planet, and that’s why we are all here at GYE, to get the right chizik and support from each other.

I start the 90 Days chart, a week before Pesach, but last night, מוצאי פסח, I failed big time, and it was after not looking at any porn site for full 2 weeks, not looking at women on the street, I was very successful with both of that, I was so proud of myself, I was sure that I’m clean already for the rest of my life, I forgot that this is my struggle and נסיון for life, but then it came my fall, I had a very big letdown, and I hope that my fall will be my ירידה לצורך עליה, my biggest problem is when I’m in bed, fantasizing about women, about doing stuff with my wife, and also, just pleasuring with myself, and that was triggering my fall, I had thought that pleasuring with myself, and not getting wet is noting, I can hold it and not going further, I’m strong, but I have been mistaken, and that is now my biggest job, bigger than not looking on porn sites. I’ll also try to learn some מוסר before i go to bed,

i will iy"h try to post daily my ups and down, i definitely feel that this will be my only way to stay clean,

one thing i can definitely say, the GYE handbook is נורא נוראות, it’s a very helpful book.

i hope that posting my story will help me, and help others so they can see that they are not alone on this huge ocean, and like the gemara says: כל המתפלל בעד חבירו הוא נענה תחילה, interesting point is, that i had find my self-davening yom tov for the members of GYE, i feel your pain,

lets pray together, we should all stay clean for the rest of our lives, the רבוש''ע should eliminate our יצר הרע and we should all go together to be מקבל פנים משיח צדקינו with our clean heads, up in the air, we shouldn’t be ashamed any more, במהרה בימינו אמן

Category: Introduce Yourself
19 Apr 2017 06:45

Hashivalisesonyishecho

Another thought.

I don't know how to define addiction. But from reading the posts of other members, I think I am not what would be considered an addict. I think therefore that my ideas are maybe not relevant for someone who is an addict. But they may be very relevant for someone else like myself. I think it is  important to present ideas which are for people at the level that I'm on with these issues, because there probably are many such people. 

I'm saying this to excuse myself for sharing my thoughts. I know that sharing isn't considered here to be something that needs to be excused, but I feel that I do need to.
Category: Break Free
19 Apr 2017 06:01

Chaimel

needhelp28 wrote on 06 Apr 2017 20:52:
Thanks everyone for your kind words

Truth is i dont see myself beating this.  Im not fishing for words of encouragement just being open and honest.  I might go on a run for a while and feel like im the frummest guy in the world but i know i will fall.  Its no longer a matter of if...

Filters are useless in my opinion.  Its like confiscating a drug addicts money, he will find a way.

I have K9 on my cpu - useless, i tried something on my phone - didnt work, only served to mess up my phone.

Its only the second day and im struggling.  Its alot easier to accept your fate then fight it and thats kind of what im feeling like right now.  Even if i hit 90 days and i know i wont it wont matter because at some point i will fall and when i do it will be big.  it hurts the most when you fall from a  hight. 
Part of me doesnt even believe the people that have numbers like 550 days clean etc.  If its true that you all relate to my years of struggle, that you too have spent so much of your lives doing aveiras and then almost the rest of it regretting them, then i just dont beleive you have beaten this thing with will power alone.  Maybe you have got older and drives have diminished  or maybe you are so busy at work that you just dont have the time but as far as i can see i would need to be super human to stop this and im just not.



Benjy

I feel terrible for you! reading these words it sounds like you're really tough on yourself and sometimes letting go a little bit goes a long way because you can refocus and get ready to fight the next battle even after a bad fall. Sorry for the late response to your post, I just saw it now.
hows it been since since then?

may hashem help you get on track and guide you towards success!
keep on posting with updates!
Category: Introduce Yourself
19 Apr 2017 04:57

michaelfried

Hi! I'm michael, an annoymous name. I watched a video and i like this site very much. It is pretty amazing especially those articles i have read. So about my life is pretty much going well but not quite. I'm happy with school, family but not myself. I have been addicted to homosexual and i feel really guity about that. I have also been exposed to homosex at school a little. Not sex as for back but touching. This has't been going well as well as for the past four years. I had therapy once just for anxiety and now B'H I dont feel any anxiety anymore. This same therapy I express my feelings about sex issues and he asked me if im into women. I answered yes because when i see a pretty attractive women but with great personality i would feel emotion. With a guy i wouldnt feel that special feeling with a women but i would feel strong if i keep touching him. I know hat you are thinking. Why i still didnt go with this therapy for sex issues? Because it didnt help me with sex issue. I go to a jewish high school. It has been a struggle. That is my life and issue. Oh! Also, when i want to watch porn i cant feel anything watching a women naked but only with a man. Probably it is because i had an experience with a guy before. Please give me an adivice how to like women instead of men or guy.

Thank You!
Category: Introduce Yourself
18 Apr 2017 16:10

Yoseph1

Shalom,
   I was signed up with GYE over a year ago when I was sent out of town for work. Not just out of town but way out of town. Without the ability to attend meetings, calls, or to access GYE I relapsed with my first addiction issue first. I am a recovering alcoholic, and when I give way to that illness all others follow suit. I fell hard and fast in all areas of my life. I am 60 days sober today from substances, working the 12 steps with a sponsor and was eager to get involved with GYE again and to start attending SA meetings as well. I am happy to see many of the strong men still here and posting regularly. Nice to be back!
Category: Introduce Yourself
18 Apr 2017 16:00

GrowStrong

The TaPhSic(k) is for frum non addicts.
For addicts its a recipe for disaster.

(in my humble opinion having not tried it nor considered it)
Category: Break Free
16 Apr 2017 21:24

Markz

May Gd have mercy on you and guide you to a friendly therapist

Trying to bestrong against an addiction is like tryin' to catch your breath while waterboardin' in a Mikva'

It's virtually impossible I think

If pay is the issue, I believe there's help available by some decent organizations. Ask the ship steward eyes.guard@gMail.coM - he may have good info for you regarding recommended therapists too

Only if you're interested...
If you prefer to just keep fighting the fight, instead of dealing with the fright, I understand - you have my prayers
Category: Break Free
14 Apr 2017 01:51

Shlomo24

GrowStrong wrote on 13 Apr 2017 16:25:
If you are going with a wizard just have him magic it all away

What I am about to say would have nauseated me in the past: I am grateful for my addiction. I don't want it removed.
10 Apr 2017 03:24

Hatzileini Na

Hey everyone,

Slipped and looked at something I shouldn't have, which reminds me I need to make sure I am working the program.

I did come across something really interesting in the book "Chasing the Scream" which chronicles the War on Drugs.  There is a classic study on rats that showed that when rats are alone and given the option between drug-laced water and pure water, 9 out of 10 will drink the drug laced water until they die.  But when put in an area with other rats and with other things to do, the rats may have drank a minimal amount of the drug-laced water, but not enough to do any damage to themselves.  The message is that addiction is not something that stems from weakness; is not about one person being stronger than another.  But when life is exceedingly painful; when we don't have a place where we can go where there is no pain and where we feel safe, we can end up finding that place in a alcohol, gambling, drugs or pornography/masturbation.  Addiction is often the response to what happened to us.  And one of the tools for standing strong against addiction is finding people who we value their company and they value ours; finding positive activities we enjoy etc.  

For me, I know that I've had to deal with some difficult things in my life, and the idea from this book definitely resonated with my experience and reminded me that any community who has struggled with any sort of addiction is often a community that has dealt with an incredible amount of pain.  And to me, when people are able to stand tall despite that pain, to use that pain to understand the pain of others and support each other; that's a remarkable thing.
Category: Introduce Yourself
09 Apr 2017 21:44

strugglingguy

Thank you for your thoughts. 

Grow Strong -- I do know I am an addict which is why I went back to my 12 step meeting last Sunday. I missed today, though. (I think that is your point, no? - namely, that I do not realize I am an addict. But I do.)

I know that I need to speak more with people from gye and my 12 step group. I know I need to read more. 
Category: Break Free
09 Apr 2017 21:23

Dov

Like I emailed you, since I do not know much in the way of details about your particular situation, there is no way for me to respond that will be best for you. But the general response to that Q is that for the average sinner who comes here and is not an addict, 90 days clean really helps a lot and is training toward developing further tools to beat this thing...I don't say, "To finally beat this thing," because that's so silly that Hashem never takes it seriously either, of course. Adolescents and children live in 'Finally' - real adults do not live in the over-emotional, romantic world of 'Finally', because today is obviously all we have...who needs tomorrow? Can you squeeze hard enough when you go to the bathroom so that you won;t need to waste time going tomorrow and can learn all day? Nope. It's silly. Hashem knows this and all we have is today. That's reality. The tools the sinning non-addict can develop in 90 days will help him or her grow up a bit and learn more tools for each day that follows till this trip is over and they are dead after 120 (years, not days, I hope!)  

And for the average sinner who is an addict, staying clean for the 90-day challenge is likely to do very little in reality but perhaps just provide a false sense of security. Yes, the person may learn that he or she needs to do things that are uncomfortable to actually not use their drug...but it is more likely that if they are addicted, then the only way they made it for 90 days was by white-knuckling. If fear or pain or shame are great enough, they will temporarily castrate anyone, trust me. What good will that 90 days do for them besides false security? None.

For the addict, the adage "If nothing actually changes, then nothing really changes," is so true. Eventually all will return to it's equilibrium and they will be doing the same things they always did, and worse.

Thanks for letting me share with you! Now the rest depends on who you are and the truth about your situation.  
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