Mr94 wrote on 28 Aug 2024 03:46:

To me it seems like this last line really says that there is different void - other than the drive to accomplish - that is there and being filled through your entertainment/porn. (And I think that you were really admitting it yourself...)

So I think the question remains, what is the void? I think that as you start to figure out what is causing the void, you'll have an easier time figuring how to fill it other ways and therefore be able to break your current bad habits...

(As an aside, as a B"H regular, healthy guy without any childhood trauma, I also had to figure out what was going on inside myself, causing me to act out. HHM - Hashem Help Me - was extremely helpful with that. If you're bold, I'd recommend reaching out to him (michelgelner@gmail.com). It can literally be life-changing.)

chosemyshem wrote on 28 Aug 2024 20:56:

Is 'free from the addiction' and 'free from lust' the same thing? 
Meaning are you supposed to lose it, or supposed to regain the ability to choose?

BenHashemBH wrote on 28 Aug 2024 20:41:

It is indeed more of a question on step 2 than step 3. But the explicit purpose of the steps is to end up free from the addiction, so I think it's fair to question how that works. 

I like that line about work and money.

Wow!
I read this entire story. Cried my way through it.

I am amazed that with your background you are able to conquer the demons around you!!

The last one is on its way.

Stick around and we will fly together.

Hey everyone, they say addiction is a bad replacement for a lack of connection. This is what my rebbe told me and I believe it's true. 

This addiction is so full of shame, especially as a frum yid, it's hard to open up with folks sometimes. How would they understand what I'm going through? it's so embarassing!

I believe that sharing with others, especially those who can relate to you, is a really important step in recovery. It's what we're doing here.

I asked my therapist if he thought I should do a 12-step program, and he said no, because folks there tend to have a far worse addiction than me and it wouldn't be appropriate for me.. but I still like the idea of having a group I can go to for support and chizuk on a regular basis. I think at least weekly, if not daily check-ins (at least early on) would help people.

I'm not a trained recovery expert nor have I overcome this fully myself, but I think just connecting with other people who are going through it with you can help, especially if we could be joined by someone who has made the journey and can act as a "sponsor" for us. 

I'm curious if anyone here is interested in starting something like this, or if GYE has any plans to do so? I know Muttel said he's working on something like this with the GYE folks, but I'd like to start a thread here as well to gauge interest.

It could be anonymous zoom meetings or phone calls, things like that. 

Open to ideas, just thought I'd share. I want to continue forging relationships here and growing together. 

It's possible you're suffering from depression and using porn to self-medicate. It's also possible you're so lost in an addiction that it's eating your life. Or maybe your just feeling normal ups and downs.

Very unclear from just a post. Worth talking to someone about if you feel like it's a problem.

Thank you so much for the kind words and support!

Interesting I never thought about this apparent contradiction, I think that whatever the void is leaves me feeling slightly uneasy until I fulfill that hunger and the uneasiness goes away kind of like a cigarette does for a smoker, in which case it relaxes me by feeding that craving and releasing that uneasy feeling that I'm carrying with me through the day.
In regards to what the void is, I don't think I fully understand myself, I'm a regular healthy guy, B"H lead a wonderful life, never had any traumatic experiences in childhood. My theory is that Hashem created us with a certain sense of lack to give us a drive to accomplish in life, I definitely feel less of a need to turn to technology when I'm busy doing productive things, as opposed to times when I'm bored, wasting my time- then I feel the lack much stronger. However even when I am fully productive throughout the day there always seems to be a small sense of uneasiness that never quite disappears.

I'm glad you caught a glimpse.

I think all addictions rob one of life.

​When equating porn with joy and pleasure, that would degrade the real healthy feelings of joy and pleasure that life has to offer. We usually receive doses of the emptiness that porn leaves us with immediately after indulging, it just wears off.

Have you checked out the 12 steps?
I'm not super well versed in it, but I think they mention how addiction makes life unmanageable.

I'm sitting here in a boiling room with no AC in the sweltering heat with my jaw open, mesmerized by your journey . I'm amazed at the progress you've made and the self awareness you have. You articulated it so beautifully and at certain points I found myself tearing up. I have very little doubt, that if you stick around here, and get to know many of the wonderful people here, you will not only kick this bad habit like you did to the others, but you will become a source of inspiration to other people that have gone through difficult challenges, by giving them Chizuk. Reach out to some of the people here, and you will find that there is much to learn, and that it's possible to beat this monster. Looking forward to hearing more from you.

maybe not as a mentor just someone in the same category to relate to?  I think gye was/did going to make such chats but got ride of them because of the above issue. correct me if I'm wrong. btw I'm a bachur but have had a much bigger p*** addiction 

I'm a yeshiva bochur in beis medrash.
I've been struggling with m********ing for the past few years. I hated it from the beginning and tried stopping multiple times with seforim on inyanei kedushah, and kabalos with knasos, but I never had long term success. 
Over time, I've stooped to other very low things, not because I had a taavah for these other things, but because one thing leads to the next. As soon as I would manage to keep sober from m********ing for a short period, these other taavos would disappear.
I'm not addicted to p****, but I'm not completely clean from it either. On the street I think I have the regular struggles of a yeshiva bochur, I try to take off my glasses before I go outside, sometimes mistakenly (or not mistakenly) see something and try to get a better look. I never had any serious taavah for pictures of p****, never found any hana'ah in pixels, but I have slipped sometimes, more out of boredom than out of taavah.
Over the past couple few  years, I've been struggling a lot in yeshivah, and while there are other things in my life that can be causing it, I feel that my slips in these areas are destroying my ruchnius.
I right now have an unfiltered computer with Linux, which isn't easy to filter. If you have any experience with Linux or the bash terminal, PLEASE HELP ME!!
I'm looking to partner with a yeshiva bochur who has similar struggles, and with a yeshiva bochur who has gotten past such struggles.

It's getting late where I am and I'm wrapping up my work day. Thoughts popped into my head. My device is locked up pretty well such that I"m not sure how I'd access something without my covenant eyes detecting it. The only way is to factory reset the machine, which I could do, but it's a huge pain in the neck to recover everything. I also would then need my accountability partner to reinstall the software, which would be a tough conversation for me, and discourages me from attempting this. I also could theoretically buy a device from a store, but I also don't want to do that. I have enough friction between me and using to prevent me from falling right now. I decided to come here and share how I'm feeling instead of investigating ways to get my hands on a device. I feel like a drug addict thinking about calling his dealer for some crack lol. This is crazy. BH I haven't fallen in 8 or 9 days now (no P or M). 

The challenge is I've found the longer I go, the more my tayva builds up... though I've heard after a certain point, the thoughts die down and it becomes easier. I'm continuing to push through these rough days/weeks with hopes for a brighter future, and I also acknowledge this is a test from Hashem to get closer to Him. The more I say no, the happier He is and that's why I was created. I don't know why this was my challenge - why I was exposed to this drug when I was so young and used for so many years without knowing its harmful effects... but I know that I am a mature adult now who can deal with pain in a healthy way instead of falling to this substance... 

Thank you everyone for your continued support.

I don't do official meditation, but I go for walks or if I'm driving somewhere, occasionally I'll drive in silence to just be one with my thoughts for a good 30-60 minutes. It's a good time to reflect on things and also practice just being. 

Reb PY and I may be converging on the observation that your stimulation and replacement activities could be skipping over a root cause that would be beneficial to identify. 

Kol Tov

Welcome to the family, you came to the right place and kol hakavod for coming out and introducing yourself. Here you will find people who understand your struggle and have lots of experience with helping you move in the right direction.

In terms of your question about what's called a fall, I'm no expert but I would think that youtube is not considered a fall officially, but from experience it's a very slippery slope from there... especiallywith an unfiltered device. Most of us would say that being alone with an unfiltered device is a recipe for disaster.

I would try anything to put some sort of (even temp) filter on the device and have it removed when you return it to the company, I imagine that there's a way, perhaps someone can chime in on ideas. If all else fails, I would advise not opening that computer unless it's in a public place, ie starbucks, library etc. The same way you wouldn't put an alcoholic alone in the same room as a bottle of whiskey, you can't put a frum Jew in the same room as an unfiltered device (this imho is wheteher he is an addict or not). 

Much hatzlacha to you on your journey