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23 Oct 2017 21:33

LoveU,Hashem

Hi brothers,

The prophet Yeshayahu says:

(בעת ההיא יובל שי ליהוה צבאות עם ממשך ומורט ומעם נורא מן היא והלאה גוי קו קו ומבוסה... (ישעיהו יח ז

In those times (of the Messiah), a gift will be brought to Hashem. What kind of gift? Our people, which the prophet describes as constantly being lured and enticed by other nations to join them in their misdeeds (ממשך), which ends up wearing them out (מורט). Our people, being in such a low state, drawn into joining the world with all its schmutz, which leaves us worn and torn between falling and getting back up, fighting and surrendering, such a people is the greatest gift for Hashem. The prophet goes on. Who will be able to deliver the gift? It will come from our people, after it has experienced the magnificent work of Hashem from now on (ומעם נורא מן היא והלאה) (hey, never look back, brother!). A nation that constantly, over and over again, hopes with anticipation and confidence for Hashem’s care and salvation (גוי קו קו), while surrendering and admitting defeat over our own battles (ומבוסה). In other words, in order for us to bring ourselves, with all our struggles, as a gift for Hashem, it has to come from us once we experienced Hashem’s wonders in our lives. The way for that to happen is by surrendering to Hashem completely, looking out for him and his care repetitively (קו is mentioned twice). An addict’s story in recovery. Sounds familiar, anyone?

Don’t get yourself wrong, Yitzchok; you are far from anything like this. FAR! But nevertheless, finding it so clearly in the words of Hashem is encouraging to me, and maybe to some others as well, so I figured let me shares it with my wonderful buddies on GYE.

(BTW, my interpretations are based mainly on the commentary of the Abarbenal.)

Cheers to a clean day!

Category: Introduce Yourself
23 Oct 2017 17:41

MayanHamisgaber

Markz wrote on 23 Oct 2017 13:06:

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 23 Oct 2017 12:10:
Mikestruggling

Thanks for the well wishes 
As to your wonderment I am not an addict and I feel live 12 step meetings will do more harm than good ....


Live meetings may not be good...

But don't get into the trap of some that are addicted to saying "I'm a non addict", give yourself a few years to decide and maybe get a 2nd opinion because אין אדם רואה אדיקשנס עצמו

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 18 Dec 2016 12:08:
I would sometimes get caught over the years but nothing helped me for long including talking to rebbim that i was and still am very close to. Now my wife is encouraging me to join gye so here we go hope i can finally become the yid i know i really am


You have already opened up to rebeim, so why not open up and keep a running kesher with another recovering gye?

btw If I'd be getting caught I'd definitely consider myself a powerless addict and would take for myself the necessary Truck route to sanity

Maybe you prefer living it out in the land of insanity? Hey - I'm just kidding
Have a great day ;-)

Okay Markz I'll bite/catch the rope 
Agreed that I might need to b in touch with some of the oilum here and I have a few #'s to call

Please explain why getting caught would make you think you are a powerless addict
btw it has not happened in a while now b"h and I definitely feel that things are getting better

Thank you all for posting here and trying to help me even though I can be thick headed somewhat... 

Path of life 
Thanks for bumping my thread and breathing some life here KOMTNMW
23 Oct 2017 16:38

Path of life

GrowStrong wrote on 23 Oct 2017 06:28:
my life changed when i learned i was sick getting better and not evil trying to get good.
Do you think you moved past the point of bechira into something akin to an addiction?

What is the fine line between Bechirah And an addict?
23 Oct 2017 15:20

Markz

Im addicted to gye...

What can I do? I'm a post addict a help!!

I can do with a hitch...
23 Oct 2017 15:01

gibbor120

Markz wrote on 18 Oct 2017 16:29:

gibbor120 wrote on 18 Oct 2017 15:55:
Is there anything your wife can do to "get your juices flowing?"

Gibbor - are they not simply flowing the wrong direction, and its probably upto the man to change course

One other thing - sex is a bonding experience. It's highly probable that the less the wife is fulfilled, the more she may want intimacy, as it's the bond she's looking for - a mate - and she's not finding it easily at all.

And often the more sober the guy is, the bond improves - Make sense?


Very Possible.
Category: Introduce Yourself
23 Oct 2017 13:06

Markz

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 23 Oct 2017 12:10:
Mikestruggling

Thanks for the well wishes 
As to your wonderment I am not an addict and I feel live 12 step meetings will do more harm than good ....


Live meetings may not be good...

But don't get into the trap of some that are addicted to saying "I'm a non addict", give yourself a few years to decide and maybe get a 2nd opinion because אין אדם רואה אדיקשנס עצמו

MayanHamisgaber wrote on 18 Dec 2016 12:08:
I would sometimes get caught over the years but nothing helped me for long including talking to rebbim that i was and still am very close to. Now my wife is encouraging me to join gye so here we go hope i can finally become the yid i know i really am


You have already opened up to rebeim, so why not open up and keep a running kesher with another recovering gye?

btw If I'd be getting caught I'd definitely consider myself a powerless addict and would take for myself the necessary Truck route to sanity

Maybe you prefer living it out in the land of insanity? Hey - I'm just kidding
Have a great day ;-)
23 Oct 2017 12:10

MayanHamisgaber

Mikestruggling

Thanks for the well wishes 
As to your wonderment I am not an addict and I feel live 12 step meetings will do more harm than good ....
23 Oct 2017 12:03

mikestruggling

Path of life wrote on 23 Oct 2017 05:59:
I feel like giving up the fight with the YH , its so tough so hard.
its goes back a looong time (over 10 years)
How many tears I had already shed not to fall again, only to fall again and shed another couple of buckets.
The guilt feelings, the double life, the constant fight.... just cant anymore!
Please help!! feel like giving in and just stop the looong fight

You may or may not be an addict.
I'm an addict I gave up and I'm trying to let Hashem into my life (really I'm trying to live Hashem's life) using the 12 steps. Look at my count that's not a lot of sobriety. It doesn't make a difference for the next 24 hours I can survive without lust. I'll use the tools I have so that I shouldn't be led there.

to Mayan hatzluche rabba whatever you do. I dont understand why you are not doing 12 steps live meetings. I am mevatel daas to whoever you ask. I know very close to nothing but maybe ask again. the joy of living the steps is indescribable it can take you thru anything (even in laws)
23 Oct 2017 06:28

GrowStrong

my life changed when i learned i was sick getting better and not evil trying to get good.
Do you think you moved past the point of bechira into something akin to an addiction?
22 Oct 2017 20:33

TzedekChaim

Ok here is the honest truth... 

Let me back up a bit. 

This passed shabbos was a very rough day. Super rough. I woke up shabbos day early, learned for a while before davening then I went to doze on the couch for fifteen minutes before davening. I woke up at 8:15, I thought davening was at 8:30, so I was in rush mode, everyone seemed to be dragging their feet. Then I found out davening was at 8:45. It should have been a sigh of relief, a smile, and no big deal. That's what I thought too, but i just kindof dismissed the frusteration instead of flipping it to positive (doesn't really matter, not the main point here). The whole day was rough, davening was very challenging, lot's of hirhurim, etc..., the walk from shul was tough, flashy frum ladies (I was in a flashy community so some of the modesty was technical, but not in the spirit) now, that's not a reason to look, nor does it cause me to do anything. I was surrendering the whole day, surrendering lust, to Him. But it wouldn't seem to go away, Then came nap time, I was a little tired, since I had woken up late, I have been passing up shabbos naps for a while now, since I really don't need them and to me unnecessary sleep is another form of reality escape. But this case was different since I had woken up early (though if I were really honest about it I did get seven hours of sleep, so it wasn't essential). I asked my wife about cuddling a little, (I knew she wouldn't be up for more, because of how she has been feeling) When I asked, I kindof knew the answer and I even told myself, why ask if don't want to feel rejected. But I asked anyway and guess what? it was a no. I turned over and went to sleep a little resentful (even though I knew that would be the answer in advance.)

(new paragraph for reading's sake) I had a wet dream then, Remember I was still watching my eyes, and surrendering my thoughts, and surrendering to Him. Still it was what it was. I didn't let it get me down and went to learn with my chavrausa before mincha. That went well (though we didn't cover everything we needed to, we still learned well for the 40 minutes). During mariv I just broke down (good thing I was in the corner ) I just felt like such a faker, living a double life, even though I had made such progress in my recovery and I have acted more sanely in my life and grown in so many ways. I was battered and beaten, and at the end of the road. I felt like ten miles of bad road(kill). I said to Hashem, I understand that this is my package in life to bear, and that today was just a wreck of a day, even if it was technically sober in terms of acting out or actively bringing thoughts into my head, or davka looking/staring at women. I said, "Please give me the strength to keep going and that tommorow will be a different, new start.

(new paragraph for reading sake) Today I realized something about the whole thing. let me back up again. For the passed couple of months, I have been working on my shemiras eynayim, my surrendering, my davening, etc... BUT, I haven't been posting here, and somehow, lust had slowly crept back in. I don't know how, it was a gradual process. and I had been fighting it without realizing it for what it was. It mainly took the form of resentment to Hashem for the predicament that I find myself in. Let me explain.

My wife b'H is pregnant and really not feeling well. Definitely not up for any bedroom stuff (kimat nothing, except for a quick good night). For anyone not in this situation you might not be able to understand, it is not a small thing especially for a newly married fellow who is an addict. Whoops! their I go trying to give excuses. None of this is an excuse, let me be clear, that is not my intention at all. What makes this situation particularly challenging is that it is always there, and I thought I had dealt with it many times, but it kept rearing its head again and again. The resentment, the feeling that she doesn't care about having sex, the feeling then that I must be a super sexaholic (checkit, irony ) which made me feel rotten, and then the resentment at HIM for putting ME in this situation of not being able to be with my wife. Parenthetically, pas bisalo is really something, when we were having a normal 1-3 times a week at the beginging, it was a non issue, sex wasn't a thing in terms of looking at other women. (I think that I was very strongly working in recovery then too, so this is not a proof really that it is good, and having regular access won't solve anything as long as I think that it is MY right to have sex and the universe is only in balance if I have regular sexual activity. It hurts to write that, it hurts more not too)

Either way, it came up the first time, the resentment and I spoke it over with my rebbe, and worked it out. It was smooth sailing (<---- the problem) for a few weeks, then it perked up its head again, I explained to myself, that she is sick, and I put myself in her shoes of always being nauseaus, and it made me feel more for her. I try to help her out as much as possible. I don't really understand what she is goign through (Hashem sent me two bouts of vertigo, I assume that was a taste of what she had.) My point is, that it comes up, I surrender that this is what Hashem has decided is best for me and I try to accept it, again and again it comes up. I think that I was suppressing it more than dealing with it, and it was wearing away at me, so naturally this passed shabbos was a consequence of that slipping, unbenknonces to me. Somehow I deluded myself into thinking that I was at a place where I wasn't holding.

I will try to wrap up, I realize that the oilam here has other things to do than read my verbosity (hopefully, the next one will be shorter: less catchup)

I don't know exactly how I got here only that I need to obviously step it up and be morehonest with myself, something that will only happen by posting more regularly here. 

One thing that bothered me when I was rereading the GYE handbook is the line that (paraphrasing) we may have thought it was religious fervor, but really we were just relishing in emotionalism. (end paraphrase) I found this line devastating, since it implies that all the well meaning, and seemingly real kesher, with Hashem was all fake. I'm not sure how to deal with it exactly. today I realized that the GYE book also says that these are suggestions and if something doesn't work don't use it. So maybe that's the answer.

For sure I was super arrogant, to not continue posting here, removing myself from the forum in various ways, I tried on a few occasions to post on some other threads, but I was like 'out of the discussion' (that alone should have been an indicator I wasn't in the correct mindset 100%) and I was worrying that I was alone and no one could relate to my gargantuan life battle. It's comical as I write this, since so much clarity and honesty has entered my mind since I began this post. (DOV I love you man, read a bunch of the daily doses of you, and really straightened out some of my stinkin thinkin)

there is so much more to write so I'll just say heffalump for now.

I need to post more with I plan on doing IMY"H, just because I have this struggle doesn't mean that I am a screwup, I'm here because Hashem has a reason for me to be, and the fact that I am an addict forces me to live the correct life, because the alternative is agonizing decay and death. I should feel happy that He wants me to fix and grow my relationship with him in this way. I am so blessed to have a wonderful wife, and that I"MYH soon a baby. Such a bracha!! The greatest brachas in my life have happened to me since I started on this journey for real. and with God's help I will continue to grow and achieve that which He wants me too.

I love you all chevra, thank you for listening.

-humbly, TC

21 Oct 2017 18:36

nefeshpashut

Yes, definitely replying in a general way to the thread, but hoping to share, again, generally, my early experience in Recovery, namely, committing to the 12 steps, which are totally kosher (as GYE can explain), will give you enormous comfort and relief. 

I know very much this realization that I had some "new fight" in me before certain temptations. I had that same experience, where I acted out, but I had fought, I had almost cried through it, and I thought it must be progress...

Well, it's not a straight line. But for me, and for many addicts, I think, it has to be about GIVING UP THE FIGHT. I had a more powerful experience over the summer, where I sensed Hashem was in the room with me. It was a simple thing, but suddenly the abstraction was not an abstraction. I felt a presence, in a different way than I had ever in my life. And with that presence I felt love, and, the desire that I not hurt myself. And so I stopped in my tracks. I did not do it. Not because I was fighting with chizuk from Hashem! Because I could sense that Hashem was present in my life, I was "living inside G-d" as Dov says in one of his recorded calls posted here on GYE...
20 Oct 2017 19:25

YoGav

Based on Tehillim gimel (Psalm 3)
1. David is running from his son Avshalom. David went against the moral law that he has upheld fervently his entire life and now he is experiencing the consequences of his actions. Just like I am having to endure pain because I chose the road opposite of what I know is right, now I have to go through the process of cleansing and teshuvah. It's interesting that David is running from "Av Shalom", father of peace. I'm in flight from Shalom because of my choices and now I have to do the steps to get me back to Shalom without it killing me first.
2. "How many are my oppressors?" says David. I hear G-d telling me, "ONE!, ONLY ONE! It is you, my son. You are the one that is oppressing yourself. It only seems like a multitude is against you." I'm my own oppressor and the way my mind works, I can conjure up an entire army of oppressors because I'm not willing to take responsibility and hear the painful truth that I have flaws and I have caused the pain and destruction. No one else is to blame. 
3. "Many..say of my soul". I say of my soul that Elokim, the Administer of justice is through helping me and he is going to sentence me to pain because I deserve it. Then David ends with a "Selah!". Rav Hirsch says this is telling us to put what we just read into the "basket" of our mind and think deeply on it. Then I come to the next verse.
4. After Selah! I contemplate it all and just like David see G-d as Yud Kay Vuv Kay, a loving G-d who is my shield, my glory and the One that raises my head up. He doesn't hate me. He loves me and he is showing me that I'm on a painful road of growth. He knows this and he is allowing the pain to happen so I can grow but he is also shielding me, giving me strength and showing me that I can look up and the view is looking up is so much better than the muck that I see when my head is downcast. Raising my head, raises my heart and I see G-d and I yearn for him.
5.Then I weep and I call out to G-d. But guess what, he has already heard me and I can start to feel the restoration of my connection with him.
6. I can now rest a bit more easily because I have come to understand my G-d a bit more and I understand that I'm powerless and he is my power. I sleep and I awake knowing that I'm loved and cared for. He sustains me and gives me new life each day. He lets me rise another day.
7. Now it's up to me to take that new day and step forward and up. I don't have to fear my past, present or future. I don't have to fear anything because I have the Creator of the World surrounding me. Those tens of thousands of fears, self-hate thoughts and everything else I throw at myself, I do not fear.
8. I still call you "MY G-d" even though I feel lost and angry at times. I can still call you "MYG-d", "the ruler of my destiny".  You will break the bite of those thoughts I tell myself.
9. Help only comes from G-d. I will only thrive and live if I recongize that G-d is my only true help and strength. SELAH!
20 Oct 2017 13:37

yiraishamaim

The reasons don't directly help an addict stop. However, it is for these very reasons that he/she seeks out an effective program that will indeed help that individual begin to live properly.
Category: Break Free
19 Oct 2017 11:08

Hashem Help Me

mystory wrote on 18 Oct 2017 09:00:
So my wife and I had an argument last night.
   She wanted to have sex.   
I Did not.   

Long form.  
One of the ways for me to get interested in Sex is to get my juices flowing during the day.  In the past  i would ready  stories,  and sometimes masturbate but often would wait  until i could be with my wife.  But now that Im trying not to that.    My  interest  in sex also  goes down.  This has happand in the past and is one of the large stumbling blocks that i am having.

Hard to comment without knowing more info. Probably your wife wants intimacy. Why dont you give her that and if the "juices dont start flowing" skip the sex part?    Probably it would be very wise to reach out and speak to someone about this situation.
Category: Introduce Yourself
18 Oct 2017 16:29

Markz

gibbor120 wrote on 18 Oct 2017 15:55:
Is there anything your wife can do to "get your juices flowing?"

Gibbor - are they not simply flowing the wrong direction, and its probably upto the man to change course

One other thing - sex is a bonding experience. It's highly probable that the less the wife is fulfilled, the more she may want intimacy, as it's the bond she's looking for - a mate - and she's not finding it easily at all.

And often the more sober the guy is, the bond improves - Make sense?
Category: Introduce Yourself
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