Welcome to a place where you can b'ezras Hashem be helped. One idea that has worked for many of us is when we see someone that triggers us we daven/say tehillim that that person have a good day, be able to pay their bills, feel well, etc. This de-objectifies them and makes us view them as people.

Hi, 
I'm 25 i live in paris, its about 10 years sadly i have this "girl problem".
When i was in High school i was very naive and some friends i have talked a lot about their relationship with girls in a sexual ways and i think it had altered my relation with girls.
Few month after hs i fell into the addiction.
I would like to completely stop this addiction and never see a woman like an object.
Thanks for your help.

ieeyc wrote on 19 Apr 2018 03:37:

No one said that...

Note: I believe "rasha" mentioned below can refer to 1 bad trait, even if on the whole the person is ok. 

Now, R Yonasan's point is quite simple - there are those who are in a not good place and instead of taking recovery actions they are hyperfocused on the sin and it's repercussions

Until we are in a long term recovery road (100 days?) "Teshuva" should be shelved. As R' Yonah says quite clearly. יעזוב רשע דרכו ואיש און מחשבותיו, and only when he's had a good streak on the Trucking highway then וישוב אל השם...

Perhaps a true 'Non addict' that falls once every 3 months can live with "teshuva" alone. But I'm not sure what means 'Non addict', so let's leave that out of the equation. For the record I'm not an addict, rather a "Not-Non-Addict"

grateful4life wrote on 19 Apr 2018 00:50:

We should see this post in a chizuk email pretty soon.

Thanks good response, it has lots of similarities thats thru. the main question here is, as its known that someone who has ocd, can be more prone to lust addiction. does anyone have experience with being treated with that, is there anything specific about treating someone with ocd & lust addiction different than standard treatment if yes in what sense i want to know.

Thanks

Hi Everyone

Yesterday, by the grace of Hashem and the help of the SA fellowship and GYE, I celebrated 600 days of sobriety! Thank you Hashem!!

I've been on GYE for almost a year now, mostly in the chat rooms, and seeing that I've chatted with dozens of people here (even acquiring 2 sponsees through GYE recently), I figured I should properly introduce myself and give over my ESH (Experience, Strength and Hope) letoeles harabim, for whatever it's worth.

I'm a grateful recovering sex/lust addict, with a mainstream yeshiva background, married for almost 17 years with a bunch of kids BH, living on the east coast, USA.

My lust addiction manifested itself into extreme binges of porn, movies in general, sexual fantasy, voyeurism along with compulsive masturbation.

I was a "late bloomer" and only started masturbating 3 years into my marriage. It was a particularly stressful time in our marriage and after I acted out once I was drawn in and from then on, I was totally consumed by the urge and the enjoyment that it brought.

I was a "periodic" - on and off of sobriety all the time. Would go act out for a week then try to stop which would last 3 weeks, then fall and binge for 5 days and stop for a week and the cycle continued. Other than Elul and Tishrei, I basically could not go a whole month without having a serious acting out binge. Usually, I would start off with innocent pics or innocent movies or after an extended period it was just a "second look" that progressed and spiraled downward rapidly and then would continue to be obsessed for days till the wee hours of the morning, until it was no longer enjoyable. I would often have a dvd player, a laptop and a phone running at the same time and browsing for the "good parts" (even risking my life to watch while driving long distances). Then, when I finally had enough or came to my senses temporarily I always went through the following ritual - I would go to immerse myself in a mikvah and I would try to stop, usually by telling or begging G-d that this would/should be the last time I watch this stuff. Sometimes I was sober for a couple of days and many times it lasted a few weeks and then the depressing cycle would start all over again.

I travel a lot for work and in my acting out days I would often disappear for days at a  time and park my car in some random parking lot, stock up on DVD's, also watch movies online and of course porn for entire days without stop, along with masturbating many times a day. I would watch until my eyes closed, sleeping in my car in less than desirable neighborhoods, and then wake up in the morning and start all over again. This happened numerous times. I was completely disconnected from society and although I'm by nature very sociable, even attending a social function, like a wedding or bar mitzvah and coming in contact with the outside world was uncomfortable for me.

I just couldn't stop. The only thing I thought I enjoyed and the only thing I craved was to watch movies, porn and masturbate.

I couldn't work normally for years. I thought my life was somewhat manageable because my abilities enabled me to compensate and "get by" but it really wasn’t manageable. About 5 years ago I started my current job which was my 4th job/business opportunity in a period of 5 years. I have a lot of skill, business acumen and talent but I just couldn't focus and keep a steady work ethic. Prior to my current position I had landed a great business opportunity and became CEO and partner of a large business with 200 employees. I started strong but eventually caved in to my addiction and my business went to hell within 18 months. I was left with tremendous debt, losses of several hundred thousand dollars, shame and financial ruin.

As time progressed into my addiction I was progressively finding ways to make the acting out more enjoyable. Just the hours of time I spent searching for specific fantasies that would get me my fix, was insanity in and of itself, as being a responsible father and bread winner. But I was a Sex Drunk and the urge for my fix was soooo powerful!

I wanted to stop, or I wanted to want to stop many times  so I would get filters on my internet devices that I used regularly but either I'd find ways around it or I'd have other devices within reach that were unfiltered so whenever I was weak or tempted slightly I would always cave. I always left "lust bottles" (SA equivalent of leaving bottles of alcohol) hidden around the house/office.

I even tried some drastic measures like fasting for 40 days in a row, TWICE within 2 years, hoping that in the merit of this kind of repentance and sacrifice, Heaven would grant me the strength and divine intervention I needed to stop - but nothing helped!

Eventually I went to a sex addiction therapist and he wasn't of much help for me either except that he suggested that I start going to SA (Sexaholics Anonymous) meetings. So on Thursday Aug. 25th, 2016 I went to my first SA meeting and thankfully, one day at a time with the help of Hashem, I have been sober ever since.

Today, I'm a grateful recovering sexaholic. I (and countless others) find SA and the 12 step program to be an incredible way of life, not just a method of breaking the cycle of addiction.  I'm now able to be "grateful for life", to enjoy even the little things in life, to accept myself and love myself with all my weaknesses and defects of character and to have a real and constant relationship with my Loving Creator.

Growing up I never had any normal or healthy relationships with my parents or siblings for various reasons and naturally my marriage was in shambles prior to recovery. After a few months of sobriety I disclosed to my wife and our relationship has turned around 180 degrees! My relationships with my kids is also improving on a steady basis. My work ethic has come a long way and my finances are in order more or less BH.

I still have plenty of challenges in my life BH that I now see as realistic opportunities for growth but the emotional pain and hopelessness that I constantly felt during my acting out years has completely slipped away.

FELLOWSHIP. I don't know of anyone who is not in a fellowship that knows the true definition of real friendship. I used to love social gatherings and mingling with friends and different people and thrive on that type of environment (probably was another form of escaping real life for me) but today those gatherings are no longer really enjoyable due to the fact that the relationships and friendships from those encounters are all fake or just on the surface. In contrast I love my SA friends. We all know about each other through and through and support each other through thick and thin. I can share with them the darkest secrets without being judged and they can tell me and sense when I'm not in a good place.

My recovery work helps me to stay spiritually fit to the point where I no longer need to battle with the urges and temptations on a daily basis, unlike in the past. I speak to my sponsor on a regular basis and I have 5 sponsees that I work with, who help keep me spiritually connected. My dedication to Torah and mitzvos has also improved through the 12 step program. On the irregular occasions that lust urges do creep in, with the help of my Loving Higher Power (aka the Ribono Shel Olam), I am able to address them immediately, surrender them to Him and move on very quickly.

These days I go to about 5 live meetings per week and spend 2-3 hours in daily actions of recovery (i.e. phone calls, step work, GYE chat, fellowship, prayer/meditation, DSR etc.).

I started frequenting GYE once I was already sober for about a year and I keep coming back here to practice my 12th step - to carry forward the messages of 12-step living and to give back and help others to recover.

I spend a lot of time with SA guys and through GYE - with people all over the globe. Through the GYE chat rooms I've had many inspirational and fascinating conversations with Jews and non-Jews from Australia, Portugal, France, Sweden, India, Chile, Israel and all across the USA.
Several weeks ago I met with a GYE member while visiting the west coast which was his first face-to-face meeting with someone in recovery and yesterday I had a long conversation by phone with a GYE member in the UK that is going through a rough patch.
Above all, the most gratifying GYE story for me so far happened just 10 days ago. I was schmoozing with some guys after an SA meeting at my local home group and somehow I mentioned about my having tried to fast for 40 days twice etc. Suddenly a relative newcomer to SA who had overheard my conversation, turns around and asks me if I frequent GYE? After answering in the affirmative he tells me that he is sure that he chatted with me on GYE about 10 weeks ago (I had mentioned about this exact measure of fasting in our conversation then) and that because of that conversation he became inspired to make a serious commitment to recovery and joined SA. Now he is sober for 75 days for the first time in his adult life, he is working the steps with a sponsor and with the help of Hashem he is on his way to a happy and free life that he never dreamed possible!

Finally, if you think my ESH may be able to help you in some way please feel free to reach out (don't be shy) and send me a PM here or chat with me in the GYE chat rooms - I look forward to it!

Thank you for reading my story and may Hashem bless all those on GYE and in the greater recovering community with the strength to live a life of spirituality, healing and recovery!!!

Very Truly Yours,

Grateful4Life

Markz wrote on 18 Apr 2018 17:08:

thanks for the feed back,again hatzlacha for whatever works for you,
1.but maybe the focus should be on killing your seed,

2.maybe it works better once every day , and not just one time,i know that works for me,maybe you did do that ,but didnt mention it in your post

3.as i said in one of the "spoilers"-"2.sorry, but maybe you didnt say it as heartfelt as you should/could"

4.as for me, there are alot of  things in yiddishkiet that made me feel good  ,saying tehillim, learning a good learning ,davening a good Shacharis/Mincha/Ma`ariv, hearing a good shiur, did it exacerbate my problem?maybe ,but im not going to stop any of those things ,i will hold onto these things  and at the same time try to let go of the lust ,and i will try to lighten my burden by destroying the ruach  who is pushing together  with my addiction to get me to act out,and THATS what the purpose of the post,adding to peoples awarness that its not only addiction which might be pushing them , but also this inyan of aveira goreres aveira which is caused by this man made ruach which departs after a sincere vidui, something that i was not aware of, and im sure others werent.
but hatzlacha in whatever works!

Seems like they are two similar ways that the same thing can be manifested.

A high professional on mental health once told me that he does not label anything as ocd unless it is impeding on ones lifestyle. In other words, 'ocd tendencies' that one can live with, are just 'quirks' (tics), but if one is always late to their meetings since they could not leave the house before checking that the oven is off 5 or 6 times, then it could be ocd.  Addiction by definition is doing (certain) things repeatedly in a fashion that is impeding on ones lifestyle. 

Although there are differences between the two, it seems that their similarities are far greater then their differences.  Living in the moment and taking things one step at a time - doing what needs to be done now,  can be helpful for both.




sg

hey, i have no problem with that, i was just following the  title of the thread :

The Torah & Chizuk ApproachA Board for Yidden who are not as addicted, and for whom Torah/Chizuk/Chassidus can still help them stop.

101Topics

978Replies

Last Post: Re: The ability to admit I hav ...by Markz 18 Apr 2018 05:08

and i was just quoting a GOAN,
although i dont know if a theripist ,if hes not frum, will  say anything about a  ruach urging more sins,if anything, he will tell such a person who believes in that ,"you need to see a theripist  (quick)!"
anyway hatzlacha with whatever works for everybody!
(i dont know why this box came out so big)

So ive been addicted to shmutz since I am 12 years old . There was a brief period in HS where I practiced total abstinence for 40 days. Other than that, my longest dry spell was probably a week or two. Recently I shared with my wife that I have a problem with internet addiction and we both agreed that I would seek help.

Part III
 We have promised ourselves that we will not act on lust again many times,but we keep on finding ourselves falling  again and again,maybe the following idea will be a little bit of a gamechanger,bezras Hashem:

The Vilna  Goan ztl on sefer Mishlei asks:
there are certain aveiros that have no physical pleasure to them ,but nevertheless people could do them for long stretches of time,one of those aveiros  is speaking needless talk,devarim batalim.

The question why is this so,there is no physical pleasure, and its a big time waster?

The Torah says "Vidibarta Bahm"-you should talk in THEM (words of Torah),and the Gemara dar`shens,You should talk in THEM ,and not bidivarim acheyrim,not other things ,which are unnecessary,devarim betaylim.So we see from this Pasuk/ Gemara that devarim bitaylim is an aveira,and says the goan, when a person does an aveira  he creates a malach/ruach/spirit which pushes him to do the aveira again and doesnt stop until he does it , and thats the secret of aveira goreres aveira-a sin brings (pulls)with it another sin,therefore  its  true that  devarim bitaylem has no physical pleasure but the spirit that he created is pushing him to do it again.

Now thats by an aveira which has no physical pleasure, what should we say on an aveira that does have a pleasure like lust ?

so now we have a problem ,we have created a spirit thats pushing us to do more aveiros ,EVEN THOUGH AFTER THE AVEIRA WE SAID IN OUR MIND NEVER AGAIN,and soon after that we can find ourselves doing it again ,what are we to do?

BH, there is a solution! and that is the power of saying a heartfelt vidui-chatasi(taking the responsibility for your cheit and not shifting the blame on anyone else),when a person says chatasi, HE BREAKS THAT RUACH! (Rav Shlomo Brevda ZTL)  and after the ruach is broken, he may still have urges to act out ,but  he has broken that shtup/pushwe learnt from gye that besides the ruach,there is also the addiction which is pushing us to do it again,and the 90 days is supposed to help us with that, but doing 90 days without taking care of the ruach might be the reason why many of us keep on falling before we reach 90 AND even after we hit 90 we still have not taken care of the ruach and find ourselves falling.

this idea from the Vilna Goan ZTL might be the answer to our problems,hatzlacha!

bezras Hashem,t.b.c.,sorry, .

Alright! Your attitude is great. Hatzlacha raba! 

Thank you Ihavestength for your reply. While you may be right that I like the second option more I am also very cautious about it because the mindfulness program that I'm doing is clinical as opposed to spiritual and is based on the first approach.

The second approach would be trying to use mindfulness to experience Hashem and to attain and maintain the spiritual experience that they talk about in the 12 step programs. This is something which seems to have been working for me in the last couple of weeks. I have been feeling connected to Hashem like never before and haven't even been faced with any serious cravings. It has been so wonderful to be free for the last couple of weeks!

According to the 12 steps the idea of having a spiritual experiences and not having any more cravings at all is very much attainable. If you listen to the shares of people in AA who have long term sobriety they very often state they have not even THOUGHT about drinking since they got sober with the 12 step program.

I haven't heard this so much with SA success stories for some reason. They seem to still be often faced with even very difficult cravings for lust but are able to surrender them in order to stay sober. 

According to my mindfulness program you are not even supposed to aim not to have cravings anymore. The only way would be if you became so disenchanted with your drug of choice that you had no emotional attachment to it whatsoever. And that is not even something to aim for. Instead we just weaken the attachment enough that when the craving comes you will make the decision just to be mindful of the craving and ride it out until it dies out. 

According to the 12 step program in the big book p84 "we have ceased fighting anything or anyone— even alcohol. For by this time sanity will have re- turned. We will seldom be interested in liquor. If tempted, we recoil from it as from a hot flame. We react sanely and normally, and we will find that this has happened automatically. We will see that our new atti- tude toward liquor has been given us without any thought or effort on our part. It just comes! That is the miracle of it. We are not fighting it, neither are we avoiding temptation. We feel as though we had been placed in a position of neutrality—safe and protected. We have not even sworn off. Instead, the problem has been removed. It does not exist for us. We are neither cocky nor are we afraid. That is our experience. That is how we react so long as we keep in fit spiritual condition."

Sounds fantastic to me!

ieeyc wrote on 16 Apr 2018 01:56:

Both. I’ve had periods early on where I thought holding things back from my therapist was better for me, and then when I opened up to him and my Rebbi, I saw how much better it was to get it out in the open. 

And that seems to be the majority of experiences here, and considering that it is pretty central to the whole effectiveness of therapy, I’m comfortable giving it as advice, because even if it doesn’t improve things in regard to acting out, it will be better for therapy. 

cordnoy wrote on 13 Apr 2018 15:55:

Call today - 2:00 EST.