16 Sep 2018 13:03
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mzl
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Thistimeillwin wrote on 16 Sep 2018 11:31:
Here I am, joining the website (for the second time, the first one didn't last). I am considered a very frum yid by many, but deep down lies the secret life I have. I started having problems over 25 years ago, lusting after girls, shz"l, porn and internet. For a while it was also visiting bad places and doing bad things, but my life journey doesn't allow for that anymore for the past few years (though I recently got strong urges to figure out a way to return).
My work requires long office hours when nobody is around, so I struggle daily with temptation to bypass filter (yes I figured it out) in the office room with no video camera (figured that out as well)... I have worked now on a solution for my main office which I cannot break through, but I have another office...
Every time I resolve to change, it lasts only days before I fall back. I read about the 90 day program, and I wanted to do it so many times (be free by R"CH Elul, be free by R"H etc.) but it never lasted. Even after this R"H it was hours before I fell again. Yesterday (Shabbos Shuva) the Rov spoke about teshuva strongly, and I got enough hisorerus that I sat down this morning (alone in my office, struggling with the urge) and joined the website.
Recently I watched the malach hamoves take people around me, and it did shake me up. WHAT AM I GOING TO DO WHEN IT'S MY TURN TO GIVE DIN VCHESHBON?? I've been stalling way too long. 25 years means I've spent considerably more time in tuma and aveira than in kedusha.
Though I am considered frum, ehrlich, yoshor and ish emes, people do not know my true colors. I would be thrown out of my house, my shul, my position, my family, my world if anyone had an inkling of what I struggle with.
I am so down I don't know if I can last through the day. I have other significant challenges in life, and they take up all my willpower. I hope Hashem will give me the koach to get through this as well...
You really don't know that your sex addiction is your "true" colors either. It's one aspect of your complex mind. And what others would do to you if they saw your hidden side can't define you either.
What are the other challenges? Hopefully they are of a practical nature, not a psychological one?
When you give din v'chesbon you'll be able to say that despite the fact that you like p*** etc you forced yourself to be a frum man (which is a hugely demanding commitment) and thus forced yourself to bear this spiritual challenge in the most painful way possible. And for extra credit you can say that you hung out on the GYE forum to be motivated to transform yourself.
I think it's very difficult to deal with the internet situation you described.
Have you looked at the options that are available for changing your behavior? They have a handbook here which reviews them.
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16 Sep 2018 10:26
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mzl
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abieham wrote on 16 Sep 2018 04:14:
Doing much better Baruch HaShem. Just one thing really gets me crazy. I go to a store and just walk down the block and there is just nowhere to look. That’s even with modest women but even harder when they are wearing what they want. I get so tense and nervous. I know cursing them doesn’t help but what can I do? I want to look but I know that if I stare I will just make me feel low and pathetic. Last summer I went to the beach to stare at the women and that was a low step for me. I didn’t go this summer but the desire to go doesn’t leave.
I read your other posts just now, you sound depressed, which is a dangerous thing because it kills your motivation. Are you feeling down because you came back from Israel? Did you like it better there? If so, why?
Regarding dating, try doing it a lot, and to have a lot of rejections. Dating is like interviewing for a job: for every promising interview you must have so many bad interviews. So every rejection brings you closer to your goal. Think "I was successfully rejected, I'm closer to finding my soulmate."
For maximum spiritual success you should not aim to marry a great, valuable woman. Look for the woman that is best for you. Daven for that. It could be a person you don't expect. And also make a list of what's important to you in a mate.
"Broken home" is a label. It's a distortion. It says nothing about you. A lot of people's parents are divorced. I don't think trying to marry someone whose parents are not divorced is a good goal. It's hard to find the best mate even without without irrelevant constraints . The status of her parents' marriage is irrelevant. In fact she could be neurotic if her parents stayed married but don't really love each other. You can still convey to her your hurt about your parents getting divorced and your anxiety about that happening again. Be direct about that.
I have a feeling that if you are depressed and you get past it you'll get back on track regarding your sexual addiction as well.
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12 Sep 2018 22:45
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Hashem Help Me
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grateful4life wrote on 12 Sep 2018 06:48:
forging on wrote on 12 Sep 2018 04:34:
I'm going to try to post here regularly, I think it will help to have my thoughts written down.
I decided erev Rosh Hashanah that I wasn't going to try to stop cold turkey, I have underlying issues that I have to deal with before i will be able to stop, and i bone every time I go off even a little bit, so much so that even though I was clean for probably around 5 months total last year I was still MZ"L around 400 times. Even just writing that number kills me. I decided i was going to make limits, no more than once per day and not more than twice per week. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying, but I needed to move my red line back so that I could catch myself if I fell.
Comes first day Rosh Hashanah during the silent musaf shmoneh esray and I got this feeling of euphoria just on my level, seeing, reading, understanding, how great Hashem really is. In that moment I thought, "how could i even be MZ"L even once, if He doesn't want me to." But I think I realize that I'm not on that level yet, it's good that i understand where I need to go but I have to take into account who I am as a person and my faults and shortcomings and work with what I have in order to become a healthy person for me and for Hashem.
Hi
I think posting here often is a great action of recovery and I look forward to reading about your progress.
On the other hand reducing but not eliminating your mzl may not produce your desired result. As the big book of alcoholics anonymous says, those of us that are addicts can't take even one "drink" if we expect to stay sober. "Half measures availed us nothing". As much as we've tried, we can't control our lusting like regular people can and once we start "drinking" a little lust we get sucked in and can't stop.
In your initial post you wrote "I feel like I need to join PA if I want to even have a chance...". That to me sounds like a seriously chronic struggler who's tried to stop on his own every which way and now realizes that he needs to try something else to have any chance at stopping. If so lust, which is the driving force of our acting out, will overpower us if we keep on drinking it, albeit in moderation.
With Blessings,
G4L
For non addicts there is a recognized mehalech of minimizing masturbating and only doing it during specific windows of time - which teaches self control. In order for it to work well, it is usually done under the record keeping supervision of a rebbi or therapist.
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12 Sep 2018 06:48
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grateful4life
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forging on wrote on 12 Sep 2018 04:34:
I'm going to try to post here regularly, I think it will help to have my thoughts written down.
I decided erev Rosh Hashanah that I wasn't going to try to stop cold turkey, I have underlying issues that I have to deal with before i will be able to stop, and i bone every time I go off even a little bit, so much so that even though I was clean for probably around 5 months total last year I was still MZ"L around 400 times. Even just writing that number kills me. I decided i was going to make limits, no more than once per day and not more than twice per week. That doesn't mean I'm going to stop trying, but I needed to move my red line back so that I could catch myself if I fell.
Comes first day Rosh Hashanah during the silent musaf shmoneh esray and I got this feeling of euphoria just on my level, seeing, reading, understanding, how great Hashem really is. In that moment I thought, "how could i even be MZ"L even once, if He doesn't want me to." But I think I realize that I'm not on that level yet, it's good that i understand where I need to go but I have to take into account who I am as a person and my faults and shortcomings and work with what I have in order to become a healthy person for me and for Hashem.
Hi
I think posting here often is a great action of recovery and I look forward to reading about your progress.
On the other hand reducing but not eliminating your mzl may not produce your desired result. As the big book of alcoholics anonymous says, those of us that are addicts can't take even one "drink" if we expect to stay sober. "Half measures availed us nothing". As much as we've tried, we can't control our lusting like regular people can and once we start "drinking" a little lust we get sucked in and can't stop.
In your initial post you wrote "I feel like I need to join PA if I want to even have a chance...". That to me sounds like a seriously chronic struggler who's tried to stop on his own every which way and now realizes that he needs to try something else to have any chance at stopping. If so lust, which is the driving force of our acting out, will overpower us if we keep on drinking it, albeit in moderation.
With Blessings,
G4L
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09 Sep 2018 03:25
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Shnitzel and kugel
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mazel tov!!
This conversation took place today between my yetzer horag (yh) and yetzer tov (yt)
Yt: wow! Wow!
Yh: what's the wow?
Yt: what do you mean? I just reached 90 days clean today on first try!
Yh: so what? you still had these lusting thoughts from time to time..
Yt: well that wasn't intentional
Yh: but your only clean based on gye's terminology, you still subconsciously look at woman and fantasize
Yt: so what? I didn't act out for 90 days and our action is what we can control, we can't have complete and constant control over our thoughts
Yh: so many guys reached 90 days and still fell, so what are you celebrating?
Yt: tommorow is the future I'm just focusing on the present!
Yh: I still haven't given up on you
Yt: neither have i
Yh: I'll put more effort to get you to fall
Yt: and I'm counter attacking and putting much more emphasis to stay clean.
Yt: just the fact that I'm clean for 90 days consecutively, shows me that I can survive without acting out.
Yt: I'm going to tell everyone that they too can defeat you
Y"h: oh man! He's actually winning me
Y"t: great! Hopefully moshiach comes right away and hashem will shecht you finnaly so we wouldn't have to constantly fight you!
For all those that haven't read my whole thread, I'm a 22 year old single Bochur, non addict and bh just reached 90 days on first try, one day before Rh! Definitely will have a totally different Rh like never before bh!
What keeps me going is,
1) hashem helping me out! (Miracoulsy found gye just over 3 months ago)
2)the huge desire to get rid and to put an end to this after all these years
3) the 90 day challenge, iyh my next goal is to reach 200 days clean (thanks to the advice from hhm)
4) seeing that so many normal people have this struggle and I'm not a low life for having this issue
5) people's inspiration and talking to people
Wishing all of you a sweet clean and happy year!!
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07 Sep 2018 03:27
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cordnoy
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Speakin' of beginnin', I found this stashed away post from even before GYE was stashin' posts:
The beginning is the hardest. Think of it like this...
Do you think about walking on a daily basis? Chances are not. You most likely do it without concentrating on it or even realizing it. But when you were first learning to walk, it sure didn't come that easily. Watch a toddler and you'll see. There's fear, anxiety, stumbling, and many times "boo-boos". Even though, in the big picture, those incidents are insignificant, all along there is a parent there ready to guide, reassuring, and prepared to kiss the tears away. Why? Because without the parent it would make the whole experience so much more difficult. Most likely the child would prefer to crawl. There's less risk involved. A whole lot less pain. But with the parent by their side, each time they stumble or get thrown off balance they take that experience and learn from it. They learn not to try to walk off the edge of a step. They learn to hold their mother's hand when they are scared. They learn that they'll get "big girl/boy" shoes. They learn to run without tripping. And then, all those times that they did stumble and lose their balance are no longer mistakes. They are building block for their motor skills. Those incidents not only teach them to walk, but they allow them to run, learn to jump, hop, and skip too. Without those slippery spots, they'd never have learned that at all.
Yes, the beginning is a really rough time, but you're not alone. In addition to Hashem who is your parent, you've got all of us, your siblings in this addiction, to help you through. And there will be real struggles, bruises, and stumbling. But it's worth it. In the end you'll not only learn to "walk" the life of recovery, but you'll be able to run, jump, skip, and hop, while being able to support others in their recovery.
About which addiction is your drug of choice, in the long run, it only matters in how you tackle it. It's not which addiction we prefer that is the issue, it's the fact that we turn to an outside means (other than Hashem and other people) in order to feel or not feel. The addiction is our solution to life's problems. It is but a symptom. The problem is our inability to cope and function that is the problem. All addicts need to learn to let go of their maladaptive solutions to life's problems. That's why I can go to any kind of meeting and still relate. It's not about the problem of addiction, rather it's about the solution for living.
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06 Sep 2018 02:48
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mzl
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Hey Mike. I just got done reading all your posts. I was wrong to assume that your posts are average, they aren't. You are an interesting guy for a lot of reasons. One is that you like SA but so far it hasn't realized its true potential for you. Another one is that you know how to write. And you suffer from anxiety, depression and addiction. And you take medications (and you are physically addicted to them) and they may or may not be helping you. I've done therapy and I'm pretty sure psycho medicines do very little above placebo. They screw you up and then you need to keep taking them, but they don't necessarily help you in the way you hoped. And your therapist may prescribe them because he doesn't understand what else to do for you.
I think you keep running really hard towards better mental health but you are not running in a straight line. And I fear that it's because the real issue may be a mildly bipolar type of problem, like I have. When you are up you want to do the program (which you love). And when you are down you jump off the wagon with both feet because you are down (you know the feeling.)
But you don't understand WHY you are up when you are up, and why you are down when you are down. And until you understand it you are stuck with this. It's a logical nexus in your brain which is too humiliating to acknowledge because it means that you have no intrinsic worth. "I am worthwhile if and only if -----"
But I like your writing and your humor.
I think I am about twenty years older than you. I may have insights that could help (or not.) I don't usually do phone calls, but for you I would make exceptions. I think you are worth it, and I know things about people.
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06 Sep 2018 02:02
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cordnoy
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dms1234 wrote on 24 Jul 2014 20:42:
MBJ
cordnoy
i am also workin' on procrastinatin'
I am workin' on a plan
it is beginnin' to take shape
i will start writin' it down shortly (as soon as I get pen and paper)
When that is done, I will immediately/soon afterwards start the process of begiinin' to determine which is the best plan of action, and how best to implement it
right after that, the decision will be reached and it'll all be taken care of
I will keep ya' all posted on my progress
thanks
b'hatzlachah
I know you are joking, but I am in the middle of that exact process right now.
I maybe have a plan for a certain area that I have been neglecting, but I just need to write it down. I will do that eventually. Maybe. Soon. Possibly. Yeah.
This has been going on for a month or so now. I will do it as some point. I guess.
After all why do today what you can push off to tomorrow.
Its interesting that this is a common problem among us. Lusting probably does it. We want THIS now, and then we push things off. So we develop procrastination problems and then stress comes from that because we are really all perfectionists and we all love ourselves so much. AH! the life of an addict!
All accurate, except the last line: Addicts don't have a life - I know from personal experience. The moment I allow the addicted side of me to take the steerin' wheel - that is the moment I swerve into oncomin' traffic; and that ain't livin'!
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06 Sep 2018 01:41
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cordnoy
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yidintrouble wrote on 11 Sep 2015 21:11:
Chevra,
I had just an epic realization as I am preparing myself for this last Shabbos of the year.
As I stood in front of HKB"H last year on the Yom Ha'Din I have no recollection of actually asking for the gift of sobriety this year. In fact on the contrary I kind of remember feeling hopelessly and helplessly doomed to die as an addict only to face the revelation of my secrets to all at the end of my days. As painful and depressing as this thought was it was never enough to get me into recovery, and I was tired of repeated failures of trying to stop on my own without the 12 step program.
Now pause for a moment and think about what I just wrote. I wasn't even asking for recovery last year at this time. I was convinced that I had no way out.
As I prepare for this last Shabbos of the year, I feel full of life and full of emotions. I can feel this way in spite of the immense personal struggles I have been going through this week. It doesn't make any sense to me that this can even be possible (I just pinched myself to make sure that I'm not dreaming).
My friends, the essence of my message is this - Yeshuas Hashem K'Heref Ayin. Hashem can bring about salvation in the blink of an eye. It makes no sense that such a thing can be possible, but at whatever time HKB"H decides to give us the gifts of "serenity to accept the things we cannot change and the courage to change the things we can", from that instant it can be a Techiyas Maysim for those of us have been the walking dead in our addiction.
If it can happen to me then it can happen to anyone, and if you ask me how then you already know the answer! The answer is H - O - W
Honesty
Openness
Willingness
May we all be zocheh to the Yeshuas Hashem this year!
"Walkin' dead in our addiction" - I believe Rabbi Wachsman said that last night at the Focus event.
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03 Sep 2018 04:23
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laughingman
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Sooo I have identified that every time I indulge in smut or porn or wtvr I end up losing that day and if I do it on motzai shabbat I can possibly lose a week
lose meaning my spritual intake for the week usually somehow takes a BIG hit as does my family life ....it always ALWAYS HAPPENS ....almost at least
and even though I KNOW this i STILL indulge about once a week though master a...n and other issues I had seem to sometimes have more handle on
soo I might have an addiction now completely identifiable because it hurts and has no positive and I only do it for the "high"
well that makes it an illness ....not better but maybe I can now learn more about myself ad how to let go
hitting bottom is hitting bottom
nothing else is
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02 Sep 2018 16:23
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Shnitzel and kugel
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90 days is certainly an achievement but 90 days in of itself doesn't mean much. It's the journey of change which is important. A person that hits 90 shows that he has mastered to a certain degree overcoming the addiction. The fact that you are holding on strong at day 20 means that you are well on your way to recovery. In my eyes the change is much more meaningful than just hitting the numbers with the numbers simply a siman that the change has occurred/is occurring.
Spot on joy of life and iman!
I would add as a non addict and single bochur that personally the struggle at day 20 was much more then day 80, in other words me overcoming my struggle at day 20 meant more to the one above then me overcoming my struggle at day 80, and thats what counts!
אבר קטן יש באדם מרעיבו שבע וכו'
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02 Sep 2018 07:00
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i-man
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Yup tachlis is that we are working hard to change ourselves , to fight the yh , to overcome the addiction etc this is what gives Hkbh nachas , so dont get to caught up with the numbers, rather look at the direction your going
hatzlacha to all
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02 Sep 2018 06:35
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JoyOfLife
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Very impressive on almost getting to 90! I'm jealous! You are an inspiration to others showing that it is in fact possible to do this.
Realestatemogul - 90 days is certainly an achievement but 90 days in of itself doesn't mean much. It's the journey of change which is important. A person that hits 90 shows that he has mastered to a certain degree overcoming the addiction. The fact that you are holding on strong at day 20 means that you are well on your way to recovery. In my eyes the change is much more meaningful than just hitting the numbers with the numbers simply a siman that the change has occurred/is occurring.
Congratulations once again on this milestone! Mechayil el chayil!
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31 Aug 2018 22:06
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Shivisi_Hashem
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Hi Chevra, Chabirusu kadishusu Hudein...
i was away from this group for along time, i just popped in for a bit here and there but not for real, i am clean for a long time, i have no clue how many days, i stopped counting it, but thats for sure, im clean and i have the drive to stay clean because of you, the memebers of this great and holy group... you help me getting out from this horrible addiction. I just take it one day at a time, and it works wonders...
i do have some tough days and some easy days, but i push it through, B"H.. only with the help of hashem i am where i am, i cant do it alone, impossible, its just impossible.
Question is, i would love to give back for this wonderful group, money i cant give, i dont have that much, but i an give back by writing (at least try) a daily post, so my question, is, if you guys will have anything from it, or will it be just for me, and if its just for me, then im fine without it... so far.. will you guys have a boost from my postings or not...
please share with me your thoughts....
thank you all and have a wonderful and clean shabbes....
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31 Aug 2018 13:41
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i-man
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Welcome!
GYE has years worth of material with all kinds of interesting stories , drama , humor ,etc
A great website to go to when your bored
just watch out it coukid be addicting..
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