On this topic I was thinking that when one is in the company of addicts all the time one can start tying his self esteem to being an addict. That way if normal life doesn't deliver a sense of worth then one can get it in face to face meetings, listening to other addicts, etc.

Hi all, so I’m not really sure how to go about this but I guess it’s worth a try, in the past 6 months I can say that I really have started to try harder in order to maintain my shmirat enayim and Brit, I’m married with a child btw, I took internet completely off my phone, and set up filters on completely everything besides my wife’s phone-not really sure how to go about that, but every 2-3 weeks I keep falling into traps, I get so hyped about watching some garbage online that I cannot think clearly enough to stop, I’m not in the best of moods right now seeing as I’m only clean the past 22 hours, but I want to regain control and start again on the 90 day chart, I will try to add every days progress and hopefully through this we will all be able to come over this struggle, I’m always telling people not to get down and that hashem just wants you to try and doesn’t care if u really succeed or not, but sometimes it’s just so hard to understand that hashem really can forgive you for every time you went against him, sometime you just think that your an addict and you will never stop and never really reach your true potential, but enough with negative thoughts, I will try my best to start this journey and keep you all informed of how it’s all going for me, may hashem bless us all with strength, and may he take away our yetzer hara 

Ihavestrength wrote on 25 Oct 2018 03:35:

For most people, the term"over it" simply means they have joined the general public. We came to GYE because we were out of control. We had tried stopping the cycles of pornography/masturbation without success. The habit became so ingrained that we were ready to give up. Once someone has "broken free", be it for 90 days or some other arbitrary point where one feels they are "normal" again it means they recognize that this struggle is a lfetime challenge that plagues everyone. However they feel they have a mehalech how to stay clean. They do not panic when faced with an urge, rather they use the methods they learned here among the chevra. For some, it is to call a friend, another makes a Taphsic, another goes for a walk or turns on a shiur/music, another reads a previously written list of things Hashem does for him on a daily basis. He knows that b'ezras Hashem he has a mehalech that works. He has come to realize that every healthy adult, including people who never fell in so deeply in the first place, is also faced with this challenge. Whether student, businessman, rosh yeshiva, or whatever, each has his own triggers, has had ups and downs and has developed to the best of his ability ways to deal with it. He, like them, has removed accessibility to pornography to the best of his ability, despite some level of inconvenience.  And although he davens to never fall, if chas v'shalom due to an overpowering trigger (be it extreme exhaustion/rejection/stress, or exposure to something terribly explicit in the streets), he falls - he stops after one acting out and moves on, while of course trying to figure out what to do the next time he will be faced with such a trigger. Such a person is "over it".

With true addicts, things are a drop different, but really the same idea. According to my very meager understanding of addiction, the term "over it" for an addict means he has mastered the 12 steps, has his fellowship support system, and has to the best of his ability rewired his thinking. Based on conversations with Dov and from what i have read on the forum, it appears that for a true addict who wishes to stay clean, there is basically a long term commitment to some level of attendance in meetings. So for him "over it" means he has this working system in place.   Hatzlocha to all to reach the matzav of "over it".

mzl wrote on 22 Oct 2018 20:16:

II like the first part (doin' your hw, readin' my posts), but I don't fully understand the second part. 

Now, I know for those who aren't addicted, there is some give and take available, but for an addict like myself, I need to be focused on purely givin'. Does that help me in the bedroom? If I keep to it, it doesI. Will I be sexually satisfied? Difficult question to answer. Will there be sex? Easier question to answer. Very little. How long can one do this for? One day at a time. Am I pleased with this mehalech? Not really. Is there an alternative? Yes, go back to lustin'.

I was reading cordnoy's posts because we are supposed to get together and I know how he feels about readers doing their homework ...

In one of them he says something which everybody says and that has never sat well with me, namely that one should never expect anything from the wife and only give. More or less. More accurately, this is advertised as being a necessary behavior for addicts.

It occurred to me that over the years I successfully attacked my desire, to the point that the only source of difficulties is desire for my wife, and even that has diminished a lot. But the behavior is still there: every now and then I want her and sometimes she satifies me right away, sometimes she strings me along, and sometimes she never comes through. And out of those times some portion ends with me acting out.

So I was thinking that the trouble with this behavior is that I regularly try to use my wife for pleasure, but my wife is not "usable" because she's not _really_ a robot, and I'm not _really_ a user because I love her and I back down. So as I do this behavior over months and years the result necessarily has to be regular acting out. I'm creating the result. I _should_ act out.

So it would make sense to view my wife as someone who can never give in that area because the alternative in our situation is bad over the long run.

The problem with this is that I run to get her the things she needs but she doesn't like giving in that area.

In order to be consistent with my approach so far the logical thing to do is to attempt to eliminate my desire for her completely, under all circumstances. I think it might work but I'm not sure where that leaves me.

She would be pretty happy with a 100% platonic relationship. I still don't like the idea somehow ..,

Trying864 wrote on 21 Oct 2018 21:42:

I'm sorry that you are in pain. Hang in there. Things can change.

Hi. Im coming with loads of trauma issues together with significant sexual addictions. Im feel very lost, sad and hopeless. What is the easiest way to gain the energy to start healing. Also, im looking for a directory of therapists in the pennsylvania area that come recomended. Thanks to all.

Dov wrote on 21 Oct 2018 20:54:

I share all the time on the forum.

I don't think his safety will be an issue, I just hope he doesn't  get too bored.

I do not think that I wrote that "you may not be bipolar". Rather, I think I wrote that I don't know if you are really bipolar. There is a difference. One is about me, the other is about you. If you learned that distinction instead of having a hand at it, I believe a lot of your communication would be much more effective - probably at home w wife, kids, shulmembers and friends. I think you may not realize that you're confusing the two, and I think that leads to much of your feeling insulted by others: you may take it as a given that they are judging you just the way you judge others. You may not even understand that it's judgement going on, at all. But most folks - here, at least - are more kind and realize that we aren't certain about that much.

And, correct, bipolar isn't an excuse for baiting people or annoying them. If yoh are bipolar, then it's your job to work on not doing that as much. You're even better at formulating excuses than I am, it appears. So that's probably one reason your efforts occasionally may never even get off the ground. An open mind will go a very long way toward helping you with seeing excuses as avoidance. I have bH sponsored a couple of addicts with bipolar, so I know it's patient, slow work to get balanced.

I hope you enjoy Cordnoy, if you meet him. You both have a lot of good stuff to share, I'm sure. He will have to be comfortable with his own safety, of course, and that's not always easy to assess. Nu. Hatzlocha to both of you!

Workingguy wrote on 21 Oct 2018 02:58:

So far I have only read maybe 5% of what you wrote.

mzl wrote on 19 Oct 2018 22:17:

Mzl,

Thank you for the assessment in seven neat points. If my therapist was as quick and to the point, I could probably save thousands! 

Dov wrote on 21 Oct 2018 01:06:

Dov,

Especially in this case, I think you’re certainly correct. 

This post by mzl, as do many others, openly sets out to be judgemental. I think that posts like those are just click bait. They invite the counter-judgmentalism of all others who (thank-G-d) have enough brains to have a different opinion. 

I'm sure are better ways to discuss life and it's many issues.

I have some considered opinions on CBT and addiction because I have spent a lot of time speaking with addicts who have used it with widely varying results but some interesting commonalities. But writing about them in response to mzl's click bait is probably not a good idea. 

mzl wrote on 19 Oct 2018 22:17:

Since I know workinguy personally, I found your points hilarious. No other way to describe it

About point number 2 - how do you know the guy you're debating about that's doing CBT is an addict? Are you the expert?

Serenity123 wrote on 20 Oct 2018 03:13:

Call someone on the phone? Even just to vent?

There should be like ten people here who have been clean for years who you can talk to. Or head to the closest AA meeting (which you can do even on Shabbos on foot probably) and say that you are an addict though not an alcoholic and you need to share.

Try to make time to see your therapist. Like they say on airplanes, put your own oxygen mask on first because you can't help the person next to you if you can't breathe.

There may be mental health hotlines you can call when you are really stuck.