EscapeArtist wrote on 16 Jan 2019 17:55:

That’s not the reaction I was expecting, but maybe I should have been more careful. Just to be clear- I did the 12 steps and went to live meetings for over a year, had a sponsor, sponsored people, so I don’t have an agenda with it per se. I have a problem with it for the wrong people, and the fact that a guy keeps on slipping or falling and doesn’t succeed doesn’t mean he’s an addict; it may mean he doesn’t have the right knowledge, motivation, or tools. 


Or possibly, that he’s an addict. 

Anyway, whatever you decide, I respect, but if you enjoyed the forums I don’t think you should back out because of the responsibility of it. We’ve all said things wrong one way or the other, and we’ve learned from it. So think about sticking around; while I disagreed with the idea of your post, I think you have a very strong, nice way of posting and I think it’s a shame others should lose out. 

What worked for you in the past?        duh, DOING the stepwork

When is the last time you did anything that even "vaguely resembles" the 12 steps?         umm.  if i come-up with a calander date, could we use that as a sobriety date?           or more accurately, if I would not have stopped implementing the program... would i still be clean today. ALMOST DEFINITELY

what steps did it it take you in the past to get clean?    litteraly half an hour of שערי תשובה לרבינו יונה every morning, not learning, nor reveiwing, but crying bittelry on a daily basis with almost every word.   In addition to that, one SA meeting a week. And simply DOING the steps and keeping my focus on them throughout the day.      Yes I had 1 sponsee (another 3 hopless cases also tried being sponsee's but did i mention they where HOPELESS... no hope they would ACTUALLY DO THE STEPWORK IN REAL TIME).         At the time, i honestly had carear goals as an addiction therapist, so i was realy focused on the program the littelature and RECOVERY.

what would it take for you to return to SA?      won't happen, and if i would be doing stepwork, it would only be on a descrete basis. There is far too much at risk if 'certain people' would know that i have anything at all to do with the 12 steps or GYE.

Why do you choose in writing these posts in a Q&A format?     The idea stuck me sorta spontaniosly. But i have always found that writing a question from the "sponsor's" perspective, and then honestly and openly answering it from the "sponsee's" perspective is quite valuable.     I have profesional accredidations in "asking questions", so i use those very tools to  help myself also.

What is rock-bottom for you?       i have a high pain tollerance, nerves of steel, and a positive outlook on even the more painful experiences one can endure.         if i ever hit rock bottom it was at the age of 19 when i fessed-up about the true extent of my "problem" to me rosh yeshiva.        But since then (mybe even half a year from then), "the floor gave way to a bottomless pit"            i never worked the program because of a "bottom", but rather by thinking ahead and asking myself    "True, life is bearable. But are you willing to live another 40 years like this?  NO!!&@&!    "Sure you can overcome today, and mybe all week, who knows mybe you can stay clean a YEAR! but do you have the power to truly stay clean till 120 with no falls?"       "then ask for HELP, because not only is it possible, but they will BURN YOUR a@# IN HELL FOR NOT ASKING FOR THE HELP!!  IT's free you idiot"          and that is how i always did step 1.

EscapeArtist wrote on 14 Jan 2019 04:59:

You should probably stop preaching it and let people find it for themselves IF it works for them. Your definition of an addict would make most of addicted to cake, spicy mayo, biting our finger nails, scratching our heads, chewing on toothpicks, and a million other habits. 

Habits are super hard to break, and addictions more so. Almost no one I know breaks a habit without stumbling many times, even if they’re not an addict. People who diet often fail because they don’t know why they’re dieting; they know that they don’t want to be fat, but they don’t know a positive reason for doing it, and if you don’t know why you’re doing something it probably won’t work. 

Same thing here. Often people fall and fall, because they’re trying to stop because they know their supposed to stop, and supposed to want to, and that it’s bad, and it’s an aveira etc etc- but ask them- do you WANT TO STOP? Why do you want to stop? Because he’ll zap you?

So to sum up, people will fall and fall for a million reasons- we should let them find their way.

Oh, and no addicts stop on their own? How many people who used to smoke- and were addicted-just quit?

So just encouarge without having all the answers.

Welcome. Most people are not addicts. Whether you are or not should not be a cause for concern. What does matter is that BH you found a place that if you get connected with you will iyh get better like so many others here. We are here to help. May Hashem give you hatzlocha.

Welcome! yep; we're  dads, good husbands; prominent community members, & s** addicts!
Connect with the great people here. They'll guide you which path of recovery to take.
Yeah it's scary, but that's the facts. Can't be changed. We're addicts, as g-d intended us to be. This is our עבודה!

הצלחה רבה!

my story is almost like every other story, except that’s it’s my own story...

its started when I was a young boy, probably 14 years old, while in the swimming pool, a friend told me that if you do so and so it’s gonna feel very good.., and that’s how it started, this boy was as innocent as I was, I didn’t even realize that I’m doing anything wrong, until I was dragged in completely into the cycle. 

im now 28 years, I don’t think I had a 30 day sober since then,  I married, had children, nothing changed, I just keep piling up more shame and guilt, I tried to stop I prayed, I cried, I punished myself, but here I am, when I realize now that this is 14 years, I have tears in my eyes, where am I!, I wanna get out of this misery.

finding gye was relive for me seeing that I’m not the only one with this problems, but on the other hand sceard me, I’m scared of being an addict, I who am a husband, father, role model am an addict!? I who represents  myself as  a smart, intelligent, full of wisdom guy, how can I be a s** addict?? 

Ouch after a streak of 143 days of sobriety I unfortunately had a full fledged fall anyways I'm realizing as I usually do after my falls "it wasn't worth it" "it was all fake and garbage, with huge consequences" and I don't want to go back to my old days of nonstop falling.

The positive part is these 143 days of sobriety have taught me the proper recipe needed to remain sober which I will break into 4 steps
1. Going to meetings and keeping in touch with people, the power of having connections who can relate to you is huge!
2. Making a proper step one, to truly realize the harm and all the bad that this addiction does and has done to my life. As well as realizing and accepting the fact that I'm sick and since I'm sick "I WILL GET URGES and unwanted thoughts
3. And a good step 3 realizing that since I'm sick, I will get unwanted urges of which I have zero control over as such I will not even attempt to fight them I will let hashem take care of my thoughts and urges for me. 
4. Learning to accept my life on hashem's terms and "stop trying to control all aspects of my life" if I don't like one part of my life and I can't control it I will accept it as hashem's will and "ride the waves" same with urges When I feel terrible and have an urge which I can't control I realize and accept that that's hashem's will and I "will just have to "ride the waves" I can't control that.

Anyways since I'm aware that the next few days will be more challenging I am agreeing for the next 15 days to the following 2 commitments and if I willingly brake these 2 commitments I will give $100 to GYE.

1. Not go on any unfiltered computer whatsoever (besides my work computer, during work hours)
2. Not to use my work computer at all after my working day (as during that time period I'm more prone to fall)

 Anyways Love you all Yankel

 SOBRIETY ROCKS!

I'm still very new here so who am I to give advise, but I'm not new to addictions, and not new to kicking bad habits. So maybe a bit of advise can't hurt.
I was a heavy smoker, I burnt through more than two packs per day. Then I quit, for almost a year I didn't touch a cigarette, then 1 day I had an urge I took one cigarette from an employee of mine, 15 minutes later I bought a pack, and i continued smoking more than 2 packs a day for more than 2 years.
The second time around, I didn't quit, I just decided that I'm not going to take the next cigarette.
It's 14 years later and I still didn't quit... I just didn't take the next cigarette...
I think the same is here. Quitting is very hard, Intimidating, and sounds like a daunting undertaking. However, just pushing off the next downfall, one at a time somehow feels much easier.

Got transferred to work with a younger child today; & all of a sudden I'm stuck talking face-to-face with his gorgeous speech therapist
I stayed sober this long by quickly blocking out the triggers; but I have no idea how to surrender the lust when I'm stuck staring it in the face...
My brain was screaming בדיבור אחד "surrender the lust": & "OMG she's beautiful"; & this clueless lady keeps yapping on unaware of the turmoil she's causing.
Now I'm stuck with this all-too-familiar rumbling in my lower abdomen still 3 hours later...
Anyone know how this "surrender" business is supposed to work???

So, just to sum it all up...

When one is dating, he should....

1. tell her if he wants an honest relationship
2. not tell her, for then she will look elsewhere
3. tell her after the third date
4. tell her by the lechayim
5. not tell her, for GYE says that there are 200,00 addicts out there, and only simchos and simcha spot announce ten shidduchim a day, and let's say there are another ten, so basically, there is an 83% chance that the choson is an addict; if she can't figure that out, tough nuggies!
6. speak to a mentor/Rav (and if he doesn't have, he has worse problems)

Now, if he is married, he should.....

1. NOT TELL HER (for he just wants sex)
2. tell her (for he's not getting any anyways)
3. tell her as she is delivering her fourth child (preferable after the epidural)
4. tell her in the presence of their marriage counselor
5. tell her in a safe room (no sharp objects, or objects that go BOOM!)
6. tell her gently (preferably as she is about to climax)
7. not tell her unless the Moetzes unanimously agrees that he should
8. decide if he's an addict, and then determine best course of action (addict/non-addict is an entirely different conversation, but the above applies just the same)

sorry about the pain you had to go through..

It's clear that this question must be answered on a case by case basis with guidance of either a rav or therapist who knows the couple
if you dont have a rav or therapist than maybe an experienced mentor from Gye.
All the variables have to go into account such as Status of addiction, addiction or not, relationship with spouse in general,  etc

Hello. When I realized I was an addict, I was so relieved/ excited to finally understand my addiction, I wanted to share with the person closest to me...I had been 'clean' for some six months before my marriage, so on my honeymoon (!), I thought she would be able to deal with it. Unfortunately, this was one of the most damaging things I could have done and ultimately contributed in a major way to the eventual breakdown of my marriage (it took another 8 years and two children later for us to finally separate). So...in my case, not a good idea to reveal, especially to one who suffers from childhood trust issues. 

Yet another reason to abolish long drashos by dinners..

Boruch Hashem I survived the dinner. Most of it was separate; I tried to escape the parts that were mixed ASAP. I even removed my glasses for one dangerous part (Also a dangerous thing for someone legally blind like me; but I'd rather break a leg than my sobriety...[that's probably not really true, but it sounds good]). I wish they didn't need to have shiksas working on the mens side tho...
Gosh it would be nice just to enjoy the dinner like the regular people; didn't it cost me enough as is???

Oy we all know that situation too well. I'm praying for you. Hatzlochoh!

I hate to keep preaching the SA stuff; but the Mesilas Yesharim's famous hedge maze mashal comes to mind...
They say to stop "white-knuckling" it & just surrender it to g-d. I have no idea what it means; but I started going to these meetings & I see people sober for almost 30 years... These guys are on top of the maze, & telling us how to get out.
I implore all addicts to figure out some way to work out a 12 step program w/ some sort of group. Your recovery most likely depends on it; it should be top-priority.
One of the definitions of addiction is repeated unsuccessful attempts to stop. I have never heard of anyone who stopped being an addict by way of his own will power.

Regardless, I'm in awe of how long your lasting, with all the nisyonos you're facing. Thanks for inspiring all of us; may H-shem grant you continued strength in this war!