B"h another day past and we kept clean. I spoke to a friend and together we were mourning our struggles with this addiction and we asked the question, is this going to be a life sentence? Will there be a time that we will no longer fall back? Will I be clean till my 120, or will I fall back after 30 years of being clean?

The conversation got me thinking... why do I so desperately want to stay clean forever? Is it because I fear Hashem? Well, if it's for Hashems sake, why do I feel guilt and shame after a fall? That isn't the feeling Hashem wants me to feel. I know that. So obviously there's an ego inside me that doesn't want to have "P&M addiction" on my resume. It's about ME!

How about I accept the fact that Hashem wants me to fight this fight; and it might take for as long as I live? If only I would genuinely surrender to Hashem's plan I wouldn't have cared much about what's going to be and if I will ever be out of this! It would be nicer to be a Torah'dige Yid and be a Kadosh, but apparently Hashem has his Tzadikim and other people fulfilling these roles and Hashem specifically wants me to serve as a pawn and not be the king, or even the rook or the knight.

Imagine being clean for 15 years, how would that make me feel? Will I realize that Hashem has kept me clean for 15 years or will I think that it was ME doing the hard work? If Ch"v a person thinks for one second that HE accomplished anything, it's Kefirah!!!

Maybe I have to convince Hashem that I will always attribute all outcomes in my life, for the good and the bad, solely to him, and maybe then he'll allow me to stay clean forever???

chosemyshem wrote on 04 Nov 2024 13:47:

Thank you. I listened to most if not all of Dov's 12 step workshop recordings when I first joined GYE, though maybe I should listen again. I considered SA briefly a couple of years ago, but at the time HHM recommended against it. When I first joined GYE I stayed clean for 180 days with little effort, and from conversations with HHM he seems to think that's clear indication of not having SA level addiction. (Correct me if I'm wrong Rabbi Gelner)

realclean wrote on 03 Nov 2024 17:12:

Happy birthday and kudos to you for taking the initiative to change your life for the better.  

One of the hardest things is feeling loneliness. Especially feeling loneliness when you're surrounded by people. It doesn't help when you're trying to kick a bad habit/addiction that you can't speak to just anyone about. I'm 22 years old looking to get married, which isnt working too well. My siblings are all married which leaves me at home alone with my father who I have a strained relationship with. Most of my good friends all got married already. So I'm just feeling plain old lonely. The 2 things that give me any sort of respite are 1 my daily routine of learning, davening and hanging out with friends (which bh starts today with the beginning of winter zman), and 2 pornography and masturbation. I hope to work on myself to eliminate number 2. My 23rd birthday is Tomorrow and I would love to go into it with a real plan. I've dealt with the easy ways of access to pornography over the years, my phone block is extremely stout bh. The hardest part for me is what to do when an urge comes, and how to effectively prevent urges from turning into action. 
Any person will find a way to get access to something if the urge is strong enough. 
If anyone has any tips tricks or overall chizzuk that would be much appreciated!

Interesting… this week when saying Nishmas, I was thinking about מציל עני מחזק ממנו, who’s the Oni and who’s this Chozzok Mimenu? For me… it myself and my addiction!
Ultimately Hashem is at our side and pulling us out of the dirt, as long as we’re trying and showing that we’re הבא לטהר 

stopsurvivingstartliving wrote on 01 Nov 2024 13:46:

The only thing you are sucking now is gadlus. It may taste bitter now because it's rough in the beginning, but iyh very soon it will be sweeter than all the sucking candies and pacifiers in the world.

gyefeller wrote on 01 Nov 2024 05:41:

Your journey here will be much better with Hashem's help. Please keep on inspiring us with your insights and by sharing your wins!

@odyossefchai I may not be sick, ill or addicted, I defiantly suck. Because under 2 hours after setting a weeks goal I fell to masturbation!

So today won't be day 4 clean.

I want to recommit to getting through the first week of the zman clean. If I come back in a week clean of masturbation I will iyh treat myself out (not sure with what yet).

Also starting mtz''sh I iyh will post for aacountability if I stimulated myself in the shower, which was what caused my fall today.

Good Shabbos!

PS I do speak to the amazing mentors and friends I made on the forum! I don't know what I would do without them!

stopsurvivingstartliving wrote on 01 Nov 2024 10:56:


I would recommend reaching out and shmoozing to the guys here. They have helped me fight the fight and win the battle. 
There's nothing like the human connection of talking to those people who have similar struggles. It takes the whole guilt and burden of your back. You aren't sick. You aren't ill. You aren't addicted. 
I am so grateful to these beautiful neshamos who have been true friends through this process. 

hi guys, this is my first time posting on the GYE adult forum, i used to be on the teen hub but i graduated a short while back and never posted yet, so heres my 'story':

I am 18 and in yeshiva in North America. B"H i grew up in an amazing family, great friends, good school and a happy yiddishkeit/spiritual life. at about 14 (9th grade) my hormones started getting attracted to inappropriate vids on YouTube etc. i didn't even know why or what (i only learnt about puberty later on...) but it got more intense until i discovered P***. It was BAD, let me tell you. B"H it was not my introduction to s*x as i was taught the Jewish view on s*x in 6th or 7th grade, i think that was a big part of my success in the first fall. unfortunately i couldn't speak about my horrific discovery that became a habit and shortly an addiction with the one who talk me about s*x for whatever personal reason. so i was left to slip down the slippery slope of tumah by myself.
Thank you hashem that M*********** never really was my weakness, of course i've had tough times with that especially after a long 'session' of p*** but i don't think i was ever addicted.
anyways it got to a really bad point in 11th grade, i was up half the night for weeks just trying to find crazier and crazier, you know what i mean. i don't think i was using p*** to numb myself bec as i didn't really have too many stresses in my life bli ayin hora, i think it was a slow build-up of the yetzer hora re-wiring my brain through strong taiva that caused my addiction. 
one night after weeks of nightly heavy duty p*** i wanted to watch something to keep me stimulated but it had to be kosher, so i googled 'kosher video sites' and lo and behold GYE popped right up so i checked it out and although i heard of it before i never knew what it was for, but it seemed hashem sent me hope when i was at a really low spot so i decided to sign up, it's anonymous after all!!
i tried some of the tools and was like 'hey, man we've got some hope' then i discovered the teen hub which made me feel normal and human once again, it was really really really essential for me to see that this is normal and to interact with people openly about these struggles. i really learnt and grew a lot there, now i'm starting my journey with the men i hope it'll be the same great if not better!

i don't think my story is anything compared to the other giant warriors on here, but i just wanted to introduce myself:blush:
thanks for reading!

chosemyshem wrote on 30 Oct 2024 19:56:

Very insightful, 30 seconds after I read this I saw that my bike got stolen, this post really helped. Thank you

We interrupt our regularly scheduled despondent posts for a slightly different tune.

Rabbi Dr. Abraham Twerski used to say that low self-esteem is at the root of addiction. This was the basis of (most of) his books. Over the last couple of months, this message slowly trickled from my brain into my visceral self. Especially after reading some of his books on the subject, in which he describes me spot on.

Naturally, realizing that I have low self-esteem only served to lower it further.

Recently, I bumped into this post by the dude of tzitzis, in which he mentions a shmuz from Rabbi Kalish on codependency and its impact on his life. I don't know why, but something told me to check it out, and boy, am I glad I did. It gave me a much-needed boost that I didn't even know was possible.

I thank tzitzis man and Rabbi Kalish for the flash of lightning in the otherwise dark forest. I pray to our heavenly father that I use this clarity to start working on what I see to be the root issue and not let too much time pass, lest I forget what I saw in the bolt.

chosemyshem wrote on 30 Oct 2024 19:56:

I love this. 
I don’t think this truth necessarily has anything to do with being an addict. This is the theme song of my personal journey, though I sing it with a far different niggun that Dov does. 

And I would add the qualifier that learning to experience the pleasures of Tahara are not necessarily a band-aid to assuage the need to escape. Such realizations can be part of learning what living really ought to be about. I understand that you’re talking about the need to learn how to  embrace dealing with living, facing up to problems, and thank Hashem for life, warts and scars and all. But I think realizing and learning to appreciate the beauty and pleasure in living real is part of it too. Aseh Tov with positivity isnt a band-aid, it’s part of the thing itself..

Taking a break from playing doctor for minute to whine.

An annoying thing happened. The type of annoying thing that I probably won't remember in a couple months but right now feels very annoying. And I'm feeling general financial stress [bh nothing major] which always comes together with double helping of feeling inadequate (one dose from feeling like an inadequate breadwinner and one dose from feeling annoyed at myself for feeling stressed). And some other annoying things.

So here I am being annoyed and because I'm sixty days clean I don't want to act out from annoyance and muddy my beautiful clean streak. I'm sure there are other reasons to not act out but they aren't coming to mind right now.

So, in an effort to distract myself, let's talk about why annoyances should lead to acting out. Some would say that lust is a powerful drug. A nice little dopamine hit to sooth a troubled soul. And there's likely a lot of truth to that. But I think there's more going on - sugar is also a dopamine hit and I'm not hankering for some candy. (Question for the dieters among us: which is easier to do - dieting or stopping porn?).

Some would add that we've trained ourselves for a very long time that this is a good solution to problems. Pain? Discomfort? Anger? Porn porn porn will soothe it all away for a bit. I think this is also true. But why is porn such a sticky habit? Why can't I inculcate new soothing responses?

And so one fundamental idea from Dov's lectures is that porn is not the problem. The problem is life. Life is annoying (see the whole beginning of this post), life is painful in that it is full of pain, life is existentially uncomfortable. We don't like life. Porn is not just pleasurable, it's not just a very sticky learned habit. Porn/masturbation/lust is something that removes us from life very thoroughly. It's all absorbing and all encompassing. It's an exit from a merry go round we don't particularly like.*

So then all the attempts at recognizing porn is not pleasurable, at finding greater pleasures in staying clean, at setting up new habits etc etc are not going to be nearly as helpful as learning how to live your life. Porn will always be an escape hatch. The best solution is going to be to learn how to not need to escape. 

And so now annoyances aren't just something to deal with and hope it doesn't drive us to act out. Learning how to accept these stressors as the life Hashem gave you is one of the central areas of the struggle. 

While this idea is certainly targeted at the mythical "true addict" I think it's true for everyone at different times or places.

Anyway. Easier said than done. 

*Note that in addition to that it is certainly something very pleasurable and something people have a natural or learned drive for. And so generally part of dealing with porn is going to involve weaning yourself off that pleasure.

chaimoigen wrote on 29 Oct 2024 21:09:

Assistant (to the) regional manager Oigen, sorry to hear about your wife and your situation. I hope things get better soon.

An outstanding question you've asked. A close friend asked me the same question after YT (a real, live person). There's some confusion; perhaps writing it down might shed some light.

The rational person in me knows that porn, like any other drug, is a way of numbing, or as you put it, distracting. But another voice in me (not sure if it's the addict or another rational guy - there's quite the party in there) says that, unlike cocaine or heroin, porn has another element in addition to its numbing factor. And that is the story it tells.

A childhood abuse victim/survivor can watch a movie like Forrest Gump or Good Will Hunting and feel validated. They might want to come back and watch it again because of how it validates their experience of life. I feel like there's a similar element in porn. There's a certain vulnerability that I wish I'd have (but am not putting in the work to obtain it) - and I'm not talking specifically about in the bedroom - that's portrayed in the videos I usually seek out. If what I just posited is true, then I'd say it's more than just a distraction.

Now, before the peanut gallery patrons start starts telling me that porn is not authentic, it's staged, these people are broken, yada yada yada. I know. Forrest Gump was also staged.