There is a recurring theme regarding recovery wherever you look, weather its sa, pa or gye. Our problem was not lust rather life. We could not Handle life therefore we turn to lust.

For some turning to lust eventually ( or possibly they where always wired that way, doesn't really make a difference) turns into a addiction, for others it may just be a very strong habit.

For those that are addicted and turn to the twelve steps. My understanding is the twelve steps also help a person deal with life, which makes lust not necessary.

But what about a person like me ( assuming I'm not an addict) I feel like I can possibly hold off on the lust, but my life is also unmanageable without it? Is there a program or a way for the non addict to make their life " managable"

In theory anybody can do the twelve steps, but my understanding is, unless someone really needs them, they won't do them properly. 

I may be totally off the mark. If I am let me know, and if you have something you can share with me, by all means please do.

Thanks in advance.

if you end-up needing the 12 steps.     you will discover that it's not WILLPOWER that you lack, but simply TOO MUCH SELF CONTROLL and unbridled willpower in most aspects of your day-to-day life!

If you'r progressive recovery brings you to using "stepwork" to counter addictive behaviors, than in step 1 you will "stop" not by willpower, but by surrender.          I probably sound like some Buddhist guru-monk..


As an aside, what do you have against the pleasure of masturbation, frankly almost everyone I met in SA enjoys it? is it the guilt?  is it the עוון? is the about living a double life?   is it wasting your time?   is it filling your computer with viruses or ransomware?  has it got you embarrassed?   does it contrast or contradict the education your where given?   is it in contradiction with the values you where raised on?  is it something you wouldn't want your [future] kids to do at this stage of their lives?   Is it so much out of control that it ruins your life?  is your "bottom" uncomfortable on the yeshiva's toilet seat?    are roommates complaining that you used up all the hot water?                [b]fyi[/b] if anyone here is having trouble doing step 1,  elaborate on these questions and add more of your own]

If you want to see the מראה מקום for this...   ראה ספר אמונות ודעות לרב סעדיה גאון מאמר י  honestly see the whole thing, but there are 2 specific chapters there that deal with lust addiction, others deal with OvereatersAnonymous

being clean has it's benefits.

Just think of all the conservation involved in sexual sobriety?!

• No more masturbation means shorter showers...
• Less shampoo wasted...
• less toilets flushed...
• countless packs of tissues saved annually (the only reason i had tissues in my bedroom was for this)
• less laundry...
• less surfing the web means alot of the energy consumption, and better battery life on mobile devices...
• no more promiscuous whatsapp groups 
• worldwide internet servers less bogged down!
• no need to purchase Bitcoin, with no more ransomware getting accidentally downloaded..
• ..... at this rate, every tree-loving environmentalist should be "breaking free"

after a short מלתא דבדיחותא, what i need to be keeping my focus on is regularly doing the stepwork!!!! (with a pen and paper)

today i had a ripe opportunity to start getting my feelings on paper. And interestingly enough, the only page i had on-hand, was from last weeks stepwork.   So after filling in a very long "thank you hashem...." list, i took a peek at what was keeping me on-edge last week. 

It was astounding to see that i was dealing with LIFE-ALTERING issues, truley worrisome and GRAVE events.... that HASHEM DEALT WITH for me, and RESOLVED really well.

No, the credit doesn't go to me in any way. So what if Hashem is doing HIS JOB, what about me? over this last week did i do MY STEPWORK?    DID I DO ANY STEPWORK THESE LAST 4 DAYS?!   Sadly not.           להבדיל אלף אלפי הבדלות when we "recently" went 3 short days without "water" in pashas וישלח, our bitter "fall" (pun intended) made it into all the history books. להבדיל if i am going multiple days without any stepwork!!!! that's stupid!!  that's dangerous?!?!

From my past experience in SA,GYE, and LIFE (no it's not an addiction related therapy), the 12 step program has the potential to effectively keep ME clean for years on end!     if i just do the stepwork (instead of preaching it to others... as i used to do), i will be forever free of internet porn!    so that is why i put such a strong emphasis on this for me.     Frankly, just working these steps, and sharing it a little with others, has the potential to keep me clean for the rest of my life!          so oy-vey, if i don't do them

Hi to everyone here...

I was led to this place through lots of lonesome feelings and am hoping for a bit of brotherly encouragement to help me out. I am 33 years old, married, and have been struggling with this addiction for about 16 years. Only recently have I begun to appreciate how my struggle is an addiction and each time I say it, I feel that it is sinking in further. I have been living a secret for a while, only letting a few rebbeim know and one therapist. I don't think I have a high level addiction, based upon how often I act out and how my falls manifest themselves. I want very much to remove this part of my life but I have a feeling that I will be aware of this struggle for the rest of my life and am trying to come to terms with that. 

I'm still alone writing on the computer and am waiting for people to hold my hand and let me know that everything I've gone thru is normal, even somewhat to be expected and that my life will work out and how to go about moving forward.

ColinColin wrote on 26 Jan 2019 23:06:

... and develop a newfound lust for them...

No, the mind will lead you in only one direction.

R' Avigdor Miller zt'l said, if you learn Mesilas Yeshorim with a girl, it is like learning playboy with her... (he actually used the word, moderator)

My suggestion is to talk with women with whom you are not attracted.
About things of mutual interest.
Respect their knowledge and intellect.

Absolutely, we’re  here in this struggle together. The YH wants us to isolate itself and feel alone so that we can give in a little bit an a little bit more until BAM, we fall and fall hard. This addiction breeds in isolation, that’s why the only way to fight it is reaching out b’achdus and vulnerability to others in this struggle. Gut shabbos!

So I'm told this ain't gonna get easier till I figure out how to "humanize" women, & stop viewing them as nice-looking "objects". Sounds like a great idea, but it would certainly be easier if they weren't so nice-looking!
How do you start humanizing women, after 25+ years of "objectifying" them?
One brilliant idea I heard was to daven for them. I Be"H will try that. (Maybe if I daven hard enough, they'll get pregnant and be a bit less nice-looking...)
If anyone has any good practical suggestions, please send them my way, they'll be greatly appreciated!
Tizku l'mitzvos!

Son wrote on 24 Jan 2019 00:17:

If you're fully convinced that you took care of it, for good, then I can't imagine it's called "baggage". Anything brought up will be assumed much worse than you say it, & will endanger the shidduch. 
An alcohol addict (as well as a sex addict, as I understand) is never "clean". He's sober, day by day. If he stops doing the 12 steps & going to meetings, even many years later, he's highly likely to drink again & end up exactly where he left off (or worse). That you probably shouldn't hide from a prospective shidduch.
This is not a decision to make on your own. Speak openly & honestly with a Rebbe, make sure he gets the full story. 

Hi I hope your doing well, first of all thank you for responding
let's say I took care of it, doesn't she have a right to know before she goes into such a relationship  if someone was an alcohol addict and was clean for the amount of time it takes to b clean do u think she should be told that he was an aa? 

BS”D
As a Baal Teshuva in the process, my yetzer hara was telling me all these years not to go to GYE and ask for help when I’m in a nisayon and I’ll be fine and won’t fall, now I said “enough”. I took upon myself to be on GYE forum daily especially when in a nisayon. I also took upon myself to get up early in the morning  and daven Shacharit (which was the hardest thing for me), and learn Torah ( starting with the daily Aliya of the parasha, then Halachot (hilchot Shabbat and then Shulchan Aruch and Mishneh Torah), then Gemara (with chazara), then Mussar and shiuri Torah. I’m an addict for almost 5-4 years. And I realized that in the beginning of when I learned about this sin, I was doing Teshuva and was mamash doing all the mitzvot and had yirah Shamayim. But as I kept falling until now, I realized that my yirah shamayim is lowered drastically, now when I hear a scary shiur I don’t get scared, when I learn Torah I don’t understand it easily as I used to. I’m afraid I’ve got the punishment that Rambam says it’s the worst punishment one can get, of not doing teshuva. I’ll start from today to be on GYE daily  and hopefully I’ll break free and do Teshuva shlema, or at least finish the first level of Teshuva which is stopping the sin. It’s very hard for me to write what I wrote, my heart is despairing but I still have the hope of breaking free. I’ll keep updating you about my journey here and ask for help when I’m under a nisayon. May it be HaShem’s will, that with your merit I’ll succeed.

BS”D
As a Baal Teshuva in the process, my yetzer hara was telling me all these years not to go to GYE and ask for help when I’m in a nisayon and I’ll be fine and won’t fall, now I said “enough”. I took upon myself to be on GYE forum daily especially when in a nisayon. I also took upon myself to get up early in the morning  and daven Shacharit (which was the hardest thing for me), and learn Torah ( starting with the daily Aliya of the parasha, then Halachot (hilchot Shabbat and then Shulchan Aruch and Mishneh Torah), then Gemara (with chazara), then Mussar and shiuri Torah. I’m an addict for almost 5-4 years. And I realized that in the beginning of when I learned about this sin, I was doing Teshuva and was mamash doing all the mitzvot and had yirah Shamayim. But as I kept falling until now, I realized that my yirah shamayim is lowered drastically, now when I hear a scary shiur I don’t get scared, when I learn Torah I don’t understand it easily as I used to. I’m afraid I’ve got the punishment that Rambam says it’s the worst punishment one can get, of not doing teshuva. I’ll start from today to be on GYE daily  and hopefully I’ll break free and do Teshuva shlema, or at least finish the first level of Teshuva which is stopping the sin. It’s very hard for me to write what I wrote, my heart is despairing but I still have the hope of breaking free. I’ll keep updating you about my journey here and ask for help when I’m under a nisayon. May it be HaShem’s will, that with your merit I’ll succeed. 

EscapeArtist wrote on 21 Jan 2019 16:54:

I think they call this "cross-talk" in SA....

EscapeArtist wrote on 21 Jan 2019 02:37:

I just fell.. oh my! My fall was me coming onto this site, that's it... I don't have time to write up a whole thing now but for me recovery means not even coming onto this site/checking my gye/ emails/updating my chart vdal.. but my addiction to this site made me come on now.. Lol

Hatslocho to all