Markz wrote on 23 May 2019 02:21:

You only need a Rav if you don't have clarity.

higher wrote on 23 May 2019 00:41:

stillgoing wrote on 22 May 2019 22:11:

i think your explanation is beautiful.
i agree that thats the correct attitude for gedolim throughout the generations, because they are so healthy. (and they can honestly and maturely surrender)
ironically, i can hear thats also the correct attitude for addicts, because they are so unhealthy. (and they are fully ready to surrender as well.)
for a regular joe (or yossel) surrendering (as far as the tinsy bit that im aware of and i could be totally wrong), is a heavy madreigah of bitachon. perhaps i could hear echos of rav avigdor miller perhaps saying to mouth such words cuz it can eventually make a dent, however i think (just maybe) that for the average person those can/may be not only wholly insincere words, (on an emotional level) but also completely remove a person from truly being mishtadel to gaurd his eyes and just ''blame it on hashem''. a regular yossel (or joe) can and should be mishtadel and perhaps not ''just surrender'' which can be a distraction from the battle that hes facing and a runaway tactic when hes not running away rather just giving in. those precious words and thoughts of surrender have an effect-when they are wholly sincere.​ not so simple for a regular (wtvr!) to do cuz he thinks that he still has some muscle.
p.s. this topic can be sensitive and this post definitely is. nothing i say is worth being considered seriously its just my own opinion. anyone that wants clarity on this should ask their rav. 

Hey Chevra,

I just wanted to share with everyone that miracle of miracles, b'chasdei Hashem I've reached 1,000 days of consecutive sobriety!!!! 

After acting out so intensely and trying to stop for so many years (you can read my story on the beginning of this thread) it was only a few years back that I had thought to myself that I would never live to see this day - I just didn't think it was possible.

I'm now 40 years old and I'm here to tell you friends there IS hope and IT CAN BE DONE!!

Today actually feels like any other day. My program of recovery doesn't change because I'm now in the "4 digits" of consecutive days in sobriety. The struggle, temptations and challenges are definitely way easier than they were two years ago or even one year ago and ODAAT I've learned to live a life of "surrender" and "service" so that I can live a life of happiness, serenity and having a close relationship to my Creator.

I've learned that I can't take even a sip of lust because it takes me away from my quality of life and signals that something is wrong inside me.
I've learned that naturally my addict brain will continue to veer towards lustful thoughts and when it does I simply need to "surrender" it to the One Above and sometimes pray for the person and then move on. Not only for lust but I also need to surrender all my negative emotions and deregulating or potentially triggering feelings. On many days I may only need to surrender once or twice throughout the day and then there are days when I need to surrender ten times in a day or more - but it works!
I've learned that isolation is my worst enemy. I need to share my embarrassing thoughts and actions with my recovery friends if I ever want to be free of them.
I've learned that instead of trying to control things, I need to let go and let Hashem run my life and the world - He does a much better job that me anyway.
I've learned that I still have much to learn and that following other people's direction is a strength, not a weakness.
I've learned that being resentful or judging others negatively only hurts me
and I need to surrender those thoughts and to use the steps to free myself of those resentments.
I've learned that I can not feel "ok" with myself if I owe someone an amends. As embarrassing, uncomfortable and "not right in principal" as it may be I need to ask for forgiveness right away without ever expecting an apology in return. I need to keep "my side of the street clean" at all times lest I want to get dirty from the "cars of life" driving by.
I've learned that I need to turn Hashem into a real "tangible being" that I can connect with. As much as  I always "believed" in Him and prayed to Him I never talked to Him on my level. I always viewed Him as an esoteric and scary G-d on high. I now talk to Him like I talk to any human being and as if he's "down here" instead of "up there". I even "take walks with Him" whenever I can. I now feel His love and we communicate openly and regularly - not just when I have a "major request".
And I've learned that the key to happiness is being grateful and always seeing everything in a positive light.

I don't post on the forum that often but I do read a lot of the posts here and get tremendous chizzuk from them. I also have made many GYE friends along the way and have had the opportunity of connecting with hundreds of GYE members by phone and via chat. I feel so privileged to be a part of this great community and I look forward to celebrating many of our milestones together BE"H!

With Many Blessings,

G4L

Higher, in simple terms I believe the 'tool' surrendering is asking Hashem to take the problem from me, because I'm simply human and can not do anything without Him. (maybe some variation in the wording for an addict).
This is what gedolim have done for generations, not a simple thing to accomplish, but something that can work for any of Hashems creations.

(disclaimer, I may be understanding this wrong, but that is how it seems to me)

Climbingup2019 wrote on 22 May 2019 17:24:

Hi Climbing,
    Can I ask you a question? It's not clear to me if you actually care or not that you watch porn.  You wrote above "....I’ve never got caught before, so I’ve never had a real reason to stop...." I had never gotten caught either, but I had a huge reason to stop. The reason was that I was watching pornography and to me, that was a bad thing. Turned out, that a reason alone didn't help me stop, but that was because I was addicted.

If I can quote OivedElokim above, don't worry too much right now if you're an addict or not. First you need to decide if you want to stop or not. If you do, then try to stop. If you find that you've made real attempts to stop or limit yourself, but each time that you are faced with the opportunity you go for it - then you are probably an addict.
But for now, who cares. Just try to stop. If you're not an addict it may not be that hard...

good luck
sg

cordnoy wrote on 22 May 2019 05:44:

I love this response! Great question, great answer. Dovid Hamelech worked on it for a whole lot of time.

Higher, you're right, practice can make it easier, but to conquer..... shtate, "one should not trust himself until the day of death" if I may add - ad v'lo ad bichlal... (including the day of death) - and that was not said about addicts

Realestatemogul wrote on 22 May 2019 03:43:

im not a deah so im going to shut up in terms of my own opinion.
i dont know about conquering, but the sefer hachinuch says that it gets easier not to look with each time that u hold back from looking. you can trust him btw.
 tis possible that addicts are different, i dont know.

Climbingup2019 wrote on 22 May 2019 17:24:

What is your question please? (Sorry, I'm slow.)

Hi brother. Welcome to the club!
On the point of addiction or lack thereof:
I don't know how much weight my word's will carry in contrast to the veterans, but my gut feeling is that you got to stop in order to find out. And you got to stop.
Ask around. Spend some time here. To me it sounds like a mild or quasi addiction at most.
Full disclosure: I have no idea if I'm an addict or not...
Keep trucking!

Im really confused where I’m at
I’ve been looking at porn off and on for the last 10 years. I’ve gone months without it and then had falls a couple times a week. I’ve never done anything serius although this stuff is not good for me, so I do want to stop. Problam is I don’t know if I’m addicted or not. It’s just something that I enjoy, and unfortunty just like if I’m to lazy to daven with a minyan, I skip it or other halachos, I keep in general, but fall if I’m lazy... so i don’t know if this is the same type of thing or not. I definitely want to stop, I’ve just never done anything so serious about it bec after I fall, I can go another couple weeks without even thinking about this issue. But then if i have access to a unfiltered computer, I will get an urge and fall. I’ve never got caught before, so I’ve never had a real reason to stop. obviously for religius reasons it’s bad, it’s just those things haven’t stopped me yet. I’m really confused where I’m at to be honest and don’t know where to turn. I do want to stop, i just feel like it’s a bad habit and haven’t felt a serious push to get me to stop. Anyone have advice???

BH you have rewired your brain and are doing very well. Let's keep on climbing. Look forward....

thanks growstrong for your response.
please speak to dov.
or look at some of his latest posts, i dont have the link.
he can explain this better than me.
as a general rule, when fighting the y''h, what works for one type of person doesnt necessarily work for the other. and this is a big example of such a case. i will say that after doing some research in our holy books it seems that in general the main point of the avodah of shmiras einayim is to avoid the fight entirely (there are many sources for this ain kan makom l'haarich) however the tool of surrendering is a bit more extreme than that and to not view this entirely as a fight (even the ''pre'' fight, is a whole different level. ) 
i could explain more if pressed but i think dov would do a much better job.
p.s. i may be misinterpreting some of dovs posts and what i have heard from him in conversation and if so \ i dont have a problem explaining my opinion (not that it makes a diff to anyone)
hatzlacha
the first point that you brought from r taub is enlightening but the manifestations of ''needing g-d more'' can be tremendous like going to a 12 step program and alot more extreme things, something that would be not quite the smartest thing to do for a non-addict, to say the least. so yes there are (huge) differences in terms of practical solutions. hope this helps

On Apr 19, Sidewayz wrote:


Maybe we should meet somewhere, if we share some similarities:-)

And what your rebbi said?
It’s mefurash in the video - in my sig below

Hatzlacha

higher wrote on 20 May 2019 18:58:

two points on this.
1: R Taub says that addicts are just people who need God more! (grateful to be an addict)
2: What does being an addict or not have to do with using tools that work!
If it works for the sickest people out there why would it not work for relatively healthy people who just have a yetser hora... doesn't make sense to me sorry.