yosef10 wrote on 19 May 2020 00:50:

Podcast recommendation: https://www.intimatejudaism.com/porn-fantasy-and-compulsive-sexual-behavior-how-much-is-too-much-episode-19/

A question not so relevant to me now but BEZH will be soon in the coming years. 

I had a shmooze with a Rebbe, when I was first on GYE and got the push to open up. Once I was done with my story, I began to ask (to this rebbe who deals with teenagers and young couples in the community) a bunch of questions about what my future would look like. 

One of of the questions that cam up was... What am I going to tell a woman who I am dating and thinking about marriage...what will she think of me? And began to sob uncontrollably, as getting married and raising a bautiful mishpacha is one of my life goals. He said by then, if I keep working then I will be clean for long enough that I won't have to tell her (thinking now I'm not sure if this was a real response or he was curious of what I would answer) I responded that I would never hold back anything... EMES EMES EMES, she deserves nothing less than that 

This is is a question that I'm sure most of the dating bachurim around here also have, and I'm curious if even those with wives can relate... What will she think of me?

I heard a psak recently that if your dating a girl seriously, and you feel like it can continue to something more, you have a Chiyuv to divulge any information that could be compromising to the girls decision of whether or not she wants to move forward as well between 3rd and 5th date (same a applies a girl who has to divulge as well) When first hearing this, I chuckled... Thinking "well I'm gonna have a heck of a long 4th date then. Between the anxiety, depression, medication, divorced parents, father in prison... There's a lot of info to get through. I might even have to make a PowerPoint presentation. 
Aside from that I'm a catch for all you shadchanim out there:)

But then, my mood changed, because when I began to think of things that I really have to work on before I start thinking of long term commitment, I thought of this inyan. Now BEZH by the ill be long sober (I am 12 days in so I guess sobriety here I come:)) but to tell her about this inyan seems to be much much different than the other issues. Those other things, to her, are things many people struggle with. The parent situation, the anxiety, that's all "normal" and I can still be qualified as a "normal guy" (I think). But to here once this inyan is brought up to the holy bas yisroel sitting opposite me, that I used to watch naked people online have sex, masterbate to i, and also by the way, that I was what some people call an addict, what would she even respond.  If her father found out would he let me continue to date her even when he can empathize. Would you guys let your daughters date a recovering lust addict? Even me in my situation, I'm not that sure. KAL VECHOMER THE GIRL!! what will she think and how will she react. If I were in her shoes I wouldn't feel comfortable. At this point in my life I understand that most guys are t naive anymore, we all know the struggle, and if we are true, we can all empathize. But for a girl, and I may be wrong, it's very very different. 

I just don't see having a successful shidduch with this in my past. It's just a thought in the back of my head, even after being years clean. 


Regardless of of this I don't see that me not giving up this information to a potential wife in my future either, it just wouldn't be fair. If I am giving myself over to someone else, to become and connect as an Ezer Kenegdo, she deserves to know what she's getting. 

How is does one live with his reality, but still have faith that every normal girl will turn you down... I just don't know. 

I think you have to get a filter before you can proclaim that you are an addict...

Hatzlachah!

This was my response:


Excellent idea to keep two logs. Pornography is much more damaging long term to life and healthy marriage. (I am not discussing the aveira component - masturbation is a serious aveira, I am just responding to your two log approach)  For people that are not true sex addicts, it can be very beneficial to deal with pornography and masturbation separately. Refraining from watching pornography gives one time to rewire the brain about sexuality. To learn that it is a koach Hashem put into this world to use to unite and to give. It is not a selfish force for pleasure seeking. Your spouse is not going to be a kosher masturbating tool, a toy, or object of pleasure. Watching pornography even infrequently, sears images onto the brain that reinforce this horrible corruption of sexuality. There is a lot written about this on other threads....



Some guys have not learned how to self soothe, or in general deal with stress, boredom, frustration, loneliness, etc. and masturbate to escape those feelings. This is a different issue than the pornography issue.



Iyh as you stay clean from pornography, and successfully navigate the withdrawal (don't get fazed by it or by wet dreams...), also learn other techniques to relieve stress etc. Exercise, fresh air, good reading material, good friends to share disappointments with, and reaching out to successful GYE chevra can all iyh help you drop the masturbating habit. Hatzlocha on all fronts buddy!

I won't lie. I fell and I masturbated on day 4 now I'm back on day 1. however many of you might not agree with me on this but I plan on keeping 2 logs. N1 for no porn 2 no masturbation because if I do n't do this I'm afraid I'm just going to give up. On the bright side of things this past Friday I was really turned on and wanted to look at porn but controlled myself.  I would appreciate if a struggler that sees that they fall as quickly  as myself give me a  couple of tips. Shavua tov chevra.Excellent idea to keep two logs. Pornography is much more damaging long term to life and healthy marriage. (I am not discussing the aveira component - masturbation is a serious aveira, I am just responding to your two log approach)  For people that are not true sex addicts, it can be very beneficial to deal with pornography and masturbation separately. Refraining from watching pornography gives one time to rewire the brain about sexuality. To learn that it is a koach Hashem put into this world to use to unite and to give. It is not a selfish force for pleasure seeking. Your spouse is not going to be a kosher masturbating tool, a toy, or object of pleasure. Watching pornography even infrequently, sears images onto the brain that reinforce this horrible corruption of sexuality. There is a lot written about this on other threads....



Some guys have not learned how to self soothe, or in general deal with stress, boredom, frustration, loneliness, etc. and masturbate to escape those feelings. This is a different issue than the pornography issue.



Iyh as you stay clean from pornography, and successfully navigate the withdrawal (don't get fazed by it or by wet dreams...), also learn other techniques to relieve stress etc. Exercise, fresh air, good reading material, good friends to share disappointments with, and reaching out to successful GYE chevra can all iyh help you drop the masturbating habit. Hatzlocha on all fronts buddy!

Hey everyone, 

Today would have been day 26 clean but last night I fell. I'm not sure why last night my resolve was weaker than other times but I have a few things on my mind. 

First of all I had let too much time go by without posting or connecting with others here on GYE. Taking my mind off of the goal and talking about it definitely made it more difficult for me to control my urges. 

Second I never pulled the trigger on therapy which meant I was still trying to deal with everything on my own. I got a little too haughty because of the success I was seeing. 5 days was my first attempt and then I made it to 25. That was a 5X increase from last time. While that is great I can't attribute my success to myself and let my guard down. 

I am an addict. I need help to get through this. I believe it is possible for me to break this addiction and live a porn-free life. I've had a small taste of what that life could be and it is amazing. No guilt. No lies. No shame. Better relationships. Better communication. Better life. 

Finally one more thing that I believe helped lead me to this fall was the lack of filtering. I still don't have a filter on my phone. Not just that but I still have access to all the same social media apps as I once did. 

This isn't the end of my journey. Yeridah Tachlis HaAliyah. The descent is for the purpose of the ascent as Rebbe Nachman of Breslov would say. This fall was meant to check my pride, show me that I need help and push me forward so I can make real change. I'm not invincible and I will wear my battle scars proudly because I am not going to let the yetzer harah take everything I'm working for over one lost battle. 

I'm mekabel on myself the following:

• In order to remove some temptations I will be deleting Instagram from my phone until I have been clean for at least 90 days and I can safely say I will be able to control myself.
• I am going to set up an initial appointment with a therapist. 

I'm a porn and masturbation addict. Today is my first day sober. 

#makelifegreatagain wrote on 15 May 2020 01:01:


The secret to success is to let Hashem do it for us, as the Pasuk says: “Hashem yilachem lachem, ve’atem tacharishun – Hashem will fight for you, and you shall be silent.” To accomplish this, however, we need to learn to completely trust in Hashem. And those who learn this and give over the struggle to Hashem are amazed to find that Hashem actually removes the lust from them and keeps them "sober". This technique is nothing short of miraculous, but it has been documented thousands of times by the most hopeless cases of addiction in 12-Step groups around the world.

Ultimately, only Hashem can overcome the addiction for us. As Chazal say: “If Hashem doesn’t help him, he cannot overcome him” (the Yetzer Hara). But, in order for Hashem to fight for us, we need to know that we can’t do it alone, and we need to reconnect with Hashem in a very fundamental way and learn a complete dependency on Him; much as a one day old baby depends on its mother.

The Gemara says that Chavakuk Hanavi summed up all of the Torah in one statement, "Tzadik Be'emunoso Yich'ye – The Tzadik will live in his faith." Rashi explains that in earlier generations, people had the strength to concentrate on all 613 mitzvos; however, in the later generations we simply cannot. So Chavakuk Hanavi gave us the key: Concentrate on Emunah (Faith) and Hashem will take care of everything else.

I'm now celebrating 19 days of being clean (Baruch Hashem!).

I couldn't have done it without the help of this website and all the people on it, so thank you all! 

I've really had to work for it this week. The first 10 days or so were pretty easy, I barely had any urges so I didn't really have to do that much. But that changed around last Friday, when they started up and threatened my streak. I managed to avoid doing anything wrong (Baruch Hashem again), but it refused to give up. The entire week the urge came to me on and off, trying to wear me down. But like I mentioned before, this site taught me about withdrawal, something I didn't really know about before I came here, so knowing that it was withdrawal and not a sign that I should panic because I was losing I was able to keep my distance from anything bad. Not so coincidentally (at least in my opinion), a friend of mine gave a shiur on Lag Ba'omer on Zoom about putting up fences, a shiur I would've completely forgotten about if he didn't send a link for it because almost nobody was there (So far its the only time he has sent me a link to remind me of an upcoming shiur). I'm beyond glad that I listened to it, because now I have an image of what I need to do. I need to put up a fence. Strangely enough, I already knew that I had to put myself as far away from messing up as possible, but something about the image of a fence really made inside me click. I'm not sure why. I guess its kind of like the difference between somebody giving you step by step instructions of how to put something together and showing a picture of exactly how to do it. I'm glad that I got the picture.
      But even with that advice I've been challenged quite a bit. The urge is there, powered by my own brain, but so far I have been able to keep it "behind the fence."

  But now I need your advice. I know that  most of the time these urges are triggered by inappropriate images. I know that the key to stopping that is that you have stop looking at those images. But the problem is, even when I do stop I still have a lot of those images stuck in my head triggering the urge when my mind wanders. So I guess my question is, is there any way I can stop those images? Does anyone know a trick I can try?

But besides that, this has been the best 19 days I have had in awhile in terms of my addiction. Hopefully the next 19 will be even better!!!
      

Hi Shmuel, would you like to work the mitzvas together with me? It's only a few hours' commitment and provides growth both for the active and recovered addict.  What is your number, we can talk about this in more detail over the phone/zoom.

Hi David, would you like to work the mitzvas together with me? It's only a few hours' commitment and provides growth both for the active and recovered addict.  What is your number, we can talk about this in more detail over the phone/zoom.

Dear dearest Pickamoniker,

First of all, I REALLY appreciate your post. I thought about you a lot, as did clearly the rest of GYE, so I appreciate hearing that you are alive and dealing with your situation. GYE never pretended to sugar coat anything or moderate the truth (my understanding is that GYE would only moderate something that would be sensitive or harmful to others, but not a varied opinion or hashkafa), and I feel very strongly that being very REAL about how everyone on GYE feels is the secret to its success, similar to other programs. Hashem is truth and being truthful is the best way to serve him. I imagine people will be just as inspired from your last post as all the others. People find the truth and people who are brutally honest the most inspirational. 

I also want to disagree with everyone elses' reaction to your post. Although, I agree that you definitely have a place in all our hearts at GYE. I felt as if this last post, while painful and sad, was also filled with hope and purpose. GYE is a place that people looking to be clean can get help and support. For a while, you were seaching for that support for a very difficult situation and B''H you had the support and really accomplished you goal. Not only that, but you inspired many many many people along the way. However, the issue that you arrived to GYE for was really your marriage, not any addiction or lust issue. Now that purpose is no longer being fulfilled and it is only natural that you would move on from GYE. As you made clear from your post, you have reexamined your priorites and being sober from lust is not one of them. While, I disagree in the ultimate view of right and wrong I would never judge what Hashem expects from you right now. You need to do whatever you feel is right in order to be a healthy and happy individual.

  This must be extremely difficult and I have no idea why Hashem is putting you through this challenge, but I do know several things to be TRUTH.

1) Hashem Loves you.
2) Hashem only gives us challenges we can handle.
3) Hashem wants more than anyone else for you to be happy. 
4) If you try your best to do what Hashem asks of us, you will be happy. 

Whether you come back to GYE or not, that doesn't matter to me. The only thing that matters is that you leave this world after 120 and go straight to Gan Eden.  I will definitley keep you in my tefilos for everything in your life to only improve and I am sure that others here will do the same. The road to recovery is different for every individual and no two paths are the same. Trust in Hashem and you will find Happiness. 

Dear David, thank you for your interest in the 6 Constant Mitzvos recovery program. 

To tell you a little bit about myself, I started going to SA about 6 years ago, and have not had a relapse since, baruch Hashem.  

About a year ago, I moved to a remote location in Jerusalem where there weren't any SA meetings. At the same time I had a baby, which pretty much locked me in. 

I therefore started to teach people in my neighborhood about the 12 Step Program, using a Torah language that people could understand.  

In so doing, I stumbled upon the root to 12 Step recovery as found in the Torah, in particular in the form of the 6 Constant Mitzvos.  

As a result of this finding I came across Rav Berkowitz' audio lecures on the 6CMs, and later read the Artscroll book based on his lectures.  

The similarities between this book and the Program are many, some of which are as follows:

1. As the word "Constant" implies, the 6CMs are to be practiced "in all our affairs" (Step 12).
2. Furthermore, it entails a spiritual experience, as the consciousness of Hashem is to be before us always (Mitzva 1 - Emuna).
3. Powerlessness - the book 6 Constant Mitzvos explains that one with Emuna in Hashem, and no other gods (Mitzva 2) does not attribute power to anything else, even to himself. 
4. In Mizvah 3 (Shema Yisrael) we take on ourselves "Ol Malchut Shamayim" which is turning our will and life over to the care of God.
5. In Mitzvah 4 is the element of working with others - that one's love for Hashem should be such that he wants to teach others of His beauty.
6. Mitzvah 5 includes doing a Cheshbon Hanefesh - making a fearless and moral inventory of ourselves.
7. Mitzvah 6 is like Steps 10, 11, and 12 - the "maintenance steps" - to help us continue to practice the first 5 Mitzvahs.

There are other similarities, but I will stop there.  I've always wanted a Jewish alternative to the 12 Step Program - not by linking the Steps up to Torah Mitzvos - but by finding the actual root to the solution of addiction in the Torah, and I think I've found it in the 6 Contstant Mitzvos.  

If you would like to go through these steps together with me, I have a system of 4 meetings over the course of 2 weeks where I can share with you all of this material.  

Looking forward to hearing from you, 

​Adam 

Dear Shmuel, thank you for your interest in the 6 Constant Mitzvos recovery program. 

To tell you a little bit about myself, I started going to SA about 6 years ago, and have not had a relapse since, baruch Hashem.  

About a year ago, I moved to a remote location in Jerusalem where there weren't any SA meetings. At the same time I had a baby, which pretty much locked me in. 

I therefore started to teach people in my neighborhood about the 12 Step Program, using a Torah language that people could understand.  

In so doing, I stumbled upon the root to 12 Step recovery as found in the Torah, in particular in the form of the 6 Constant Mitzvos.  

As a result of this finding I came across Rav Berkowitz' audio lecures on the 6CMs, and later read the Artscroll book based on his lectures.  

The similarities between this book and the Program are many, some of which are as follows:

1. As the word "Constant" implies, the 6CMs are to be practiced "in all our affairs" (Step 12).
2. Furthermore, it entails a spiritual experience, as the consciousness of Hashem is to be before us always (Mitzva 1 - Emuna).
3. Powerlessness - the book 6 Constant Mitzvos explains that one with Emuna in Hashem, and no other gods (Mitzva 2) does not attribute power to anything else, even to himself.  
4. In Mizvah 3 (Shema Yisrael) we take on ourselves "Ol Malchut Shamayim" which is turning our will and life over to the care of God. 
5. In Mitzvah 4 is the element of working with others - that one's love for Hashem should be such that he wants to teach others of His beauty.
6. Mitzvah 5 includes doing a Cheshbon Hanefesh - making a fearless and moral inventory of ourselves. 
7. Mitzvah 6 is like Steps 10, 11, and 12 - the "maintenance steps" - to help us continue to practice the first 5 Mitzvahs. 

There are other similarities, but I will stop there.  I've always wanted a Jewish alternative to the 12 Step Program - not by linking the Steps up to Torah Mitzvos - but by finding the actual root to the solution of addiction in the Torah, and I think I've found it in the 6 Contstant Mitzvos.  

If you would like to go through these steps together with me, I have a system of 4 meetings over the course of 2 weeks where I can share with you all of this material.  

Looking forward to hearing from you, 

Adam 

Meyer M. wrote on 11 May 2020 03:43:

You need to be aware that its normal to feel weak after some time of keeping clean. Most people go thru this stage.The ones that realize what's behind this, stay strong an the others fall back and then start the same cycle again.The reason is that the initial emotional excitement wares off ... now its an intellectual struggle. 

The good thing is that when you get over this bump, and you stay strong not because of feelings but because you know what's important and you want in life, things really start falling into place - big time!

Day 6: yknow this feels almost too easy, I would say i feel like im walking into a trap but i dont know, maybe its easy right now because i had 3 weeks to change my addiction needs and now i dont need it as much, then again maybe because im investing so much time into reality, I dont feel like wasting any time in fantasies? i dont know, im just happier than iv been in a LONG time