yes %100
these eitzos will not cure the illness. (like any other illness).
just to clarify, this eitza didn't work for me to cure me, there were a bunch of other practical things that i did, and of course need and plan to do.
(btw in kitzur 151 i don't think he is talking about addiction).

Look, it's a good eitzah and it might work for you, and siman 151 of the kitzur has a lot of nice eitzos (none of which worked for me. I tried to be a sandek at someone's bris but they threw me out!!! j/k)

I reiterate that if you feel you are addicted per se, then the issue here needs to be dealt with using a completely different perspective. This is what helped me. To gain such a perspective, find Dov's shiruim on this site, they are incredible.

joeshmo wrote on 05 Jun 2020 14:25:

the simple answer to this is steps 4 to 11.

Your story sounds so textbook I feel like I'm reading AA!
I know it's sucky to be where you are, just know we've all been there.

First off, thank you all for the wonderful words of encouragement. I know I have a long battle ahead, but I'm stubborn (for good and for worse) and am not willing to give, no matter how many times I fall. Wrapping up day-1 - not much to enter. Feeling proud that I did not give in to other addictions (downloading and playing computer games), which always lead me down the rabbit hole of acting out (this is a whole other topic in its own right). I also surrender my lusts to Hashem and ask Hashem to be easy on me with the triggers and Nisyonot - I'm nowhere near as strong as the other veterans here. As I always say "Hashem, I have not given up on myself, so you please don't give up on me!" I wish us all a wonderful and holy Shabbat!

DavidT wrote on 05 Jun 2020 13:14:

Thank you for this - I have forgotten this over time. I guess my only challenge with Step 3 is that I deal it is easier dais than done. "Yes, I want to turn my live over to Hashem", but what does this really mean? I guess I just need to read more into this, to better understand. but thanks and Shabbat Shalom!

Meyer M. wrote on 05 Jun 2020 12:32:

Thanks for the advice, I really do appreciate it! Although the problem with that is the fact that my Yetser Hara has become an expert at "Selective Memory". It's almost like a split personality. There is the good Joe who studies Torah and understands very well the impact acting-out causes to himself, his family and the world and then there's the other Joe, who is looking for the quick fix, regardless of who or what is standing in the way. To be honest, it makes no sense when trying to rationalize it, but that is the reality I live in.

Nevertheless, I will Bli Neder look into the book you mentioned, "The Fight by Rabbi Shafier", as I feel the best way to deal with this is to better understand my opponent, rather than fear my opponent.

DavidT wrote on 05 Jun 2020 13:56:

100% agree. You always have to try to keep up with your doing. Even its it's too difficult. Do t get confident. We always have to know and understand that no matter at what point were at in the struggle, and whether it's eisoer at that time or not... We are always succeptable to another fall, there's always a part of us that still wants it. So you can never be too careful even after your well deserved success. 

So so keep your head up high, pat yourself on the back, and keep up the great work. 

Habe be a great Shabbos!,!!

Meyer M. wrote on 05 Jun 2020 03:31:

Mayer , you're a true inspiration! Keep it up...

If I may add one very important point:
The Talmud, tells us that a person's yezter hara (evil inclination) grows stronger and renews itself every day. And without Hashem’s help, we are powerless to overcome it. (Kidushin 30b)

Will power alone is often not sufficient when dealing with these  addictive behaviors. Not only that, but lust is so powerful that even the greatest Tzadikim who feared Hashem with all their hearts, sometimes felt powerless when faced head-on with lust. See what happened with Masya ben Charash and Rav Amram, Rabban Shel Chassidim. In both these cases, these great Tzadikim had to take extreme measures to ensure they didn’t stumble.

joeshmo wrote on 04 Jun 2020 10:43:


Hi
We feel your pain. You're going in the right direction.
I quoted some of your text which  actually touch on the first 3 steps of the 12 step program... see below:

Step one: "You need to  admit that you are powerless over lust ― and that your life has become unmanageable."
Step two: Come to believe that Hashem could restore you to sanity.
Step three: Make a firm decision to turn your will and your life over to the care of Hashem.

The steps begin with an intense self awareness and admission as to the root of the problem ― an inability to change the behavior through willpower alone, and acknowledging the consequences of my conduct (step one: man's relations to self).
Steps two and three transition to man's relationship with Hashem, first recognizing that the Creator of the Universe can in fact change my behavior (step two) if I take the requisite actions (step three). Simply put: "I can't. He can. I think I'll let Him."
Some erroneously argue that admitting powerlessness runs contrary to Judaism's characterization of free will ― "If I truly set my mind to something, I will be able to conquer any challenge."
The Talmud, however, tells us just the opposite. We are taught that a person's yezter hara (evil inclination) grows stronger and renews itself every day. And without Hashem’s help, we are powerless to overcome it. (Kidushin 30b)
A fundamental Jewish tenet is that everything is in the hands of Hashem except for fear of Heaven (Berachot 33b). The sole autonomy we possess in this world is perception (yireh)- - to see ourselves in relation to the Creator of the Universe, with the subsequent awe that results from that observation. We have the freedom of choice, but it's entirely up to Hashem to allow that choice to successfully develop into action.
The disease of addiction is nothing less than the yezter hara, the lower self, as it manifests in those people given this particular challenge in life. Without Hashem's help, we are truly powerless.

joeshmo wrote on 04 Jun 2020 10:43:

You can try mindfulness but I'v found when I'm getting triggered It simply doesn't help me. I would tell you to start reading/listening to books/shiurim about wasting zerah ( https://gye.vids.io/ ) and more specifically The Fight by Rabbi Shafier ( https://theshmuz.com/series/the-fight/ ) so you can understand the principle of whats happening. Of course there's a lot more that I did but try this and see if you enjoy it and understand it. 

I'll be keeping an eye on this forum. Keep us posted! Hatzlacha!

I don't even know where to start. Nothing works and I am completely powerless to defeat this sickness. I am so tired of trying to keep clean, yet failing time and time again. Hashem help me!!! This is day Zero. not much to post because I am covered in a thick coat of self-pity, disappointment, frustration - you name it, I am feeling it.

I need a few clean days to pull out of this feeling. So this will be my diary, where I'll bli neder put down my thoughts and feelings. Everything is backward - my habits, work ethic, family life, sleep routine. I don't even know where to start to get back on track. Everything seems so distant, so far away. I'm way behind on everything because of my addiction.

Ok that's it for now - maybe I'll post again in the evening or tomorrow Bezrat Hashem. Be well!

I love the honesty and the part about "not-so-evil porn", haha :D

Your story sounds like a typical progressive story, your 'na'ase lo k'heter' understanding, I guess. We lower our bottom again and again. 

If you're asking from an addict point of view, it would do you good to read the AA book or the SA book, to understand their program and how it's outlined to "fix / safely control" the issue.

Just was prompted by fortify to write a bit about my life before porn, just wrote up a quick memoir , and took out some explicit stuff as to nkt trigger anyone. 

It's actually pretty cool to attempt to think about my life before porn. All I can really recall is being happy... But more than that a life that didn't involve porn is so alien to me... It has been almost a constant focus for the past 5 years of my life. 
At first I didn't really know what I was doing, the porn I watched when I was much much younger, and then stopped for a bit... I'm not sure why, and curious why. Then I started again sometime in 6th or 7th grade I think. I also don't remember why I started again. I knew it was dirty, and I had small thoughts to keep clean, but I didn't, and I was sort of OK with that. 
The first time I masterbate do and ejaculated, I was wearing jeans, which I didn't like, in grandmas den, I remember what I watched, it was a video where ....., I also remember the video progressing to actually sex, and being totally disgusted with that. Eventually after looking at the  and rubbing for long enough, which also felt good... I ejaculated. I sort of knew what it was because I guessed from the porn I watched, but I was kind of freaked out someone else would find out. I guess that's where the addiction was really fortified... That was the real start.  
I'm not sure if I did it because of seeking pleasure and hormonal bar mitzvah boy, or because a lot of stress in my life. At that point my parents had been divorced after a lot of fighting, my dad had been in jail, I didn't have a good sleep schedule because of YouTube, I was too invested in school, I has 4 parents telling me what to do... Mom dad grandma grandpa... And also at that point grandpa used to make me feel really bad about my father, he used to say how HE was a menuval and would look me right in the eye when he said it. It was terrible... He forced me to go to minyan even if I didn't want to .... Which caused fights with mommy... Same with bar mitzvah lessons. He used to yell at her, which probably also wasn't good for me. 
At that time I used to fight a lot with my older sister, and she would curse at me, I was also starting to hate my younger sister, and my other sister was a non factor. This acting out was probably also because of the stress... Which was probably also why I acted out in third grade... Poor Mrs. ..... She tried hard to make me feel connected, but I really resented all of it. 
I also remember my second grade rebbe, and crying at random times in the classroom, probably because of what was going on at home. Also and I remember this vividly on a snow day... I just used to cry... Whether it was because I didn't feel accomplished or productive that day, or maybe some other stress that was going on at home, or because maybe I have a tendency toward depression... I used to cry and cry and feel bad.... And not even know why. (Similar crying so happened erev Shabbos, before I would say kidush I would brake out and sob, and not know why. 

Wow I've been through a lot... And this isn't the half of it. Just a quick jot down of some of my experiences. 

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.


Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

Something is hidden for guests. Please log in or register to see it.

I'm no bakee, but o recall hearing from an addict quoting the big book that they had no control over lust. It's great you love your girlfriend, and I'm sure it's good to think about and be concerned about her... Just make sure it's not lust, if it is then it's the exact thing on the screen your staying away from, don't say because she's real it's ok... Don't indulge yourself. 

If nkt, then I rthink it would be fine, but only you can make that distinction.