Hi,

I joined this to get rid and free from pmo for the rest of my life.
I had been addicted very strongly to masturbation from my young age till now. Also, pornography addiction is also there.

I had suffered and gone through continuous spiritual, mental and physical struggle and weakness because of this . Also it had impacted me in my studies, work ,family and social relations 

AsimpleJew wrote on 18 Aug 2020 05:06:

Kol hakovod!

This in particular must be dealt with differently, because as mentioned it is constantly in our faces.

The way that seems reasonable is as follows: The streak should be determined by a basic overall working on it. We cannot determine success solely based upon not fantasizing at all. Its inevitable especially in the beginning. If you are heading on an upward trajectory, you are succeeding. Some days or places will be more difficult, but if you are constantly working on it you are clean. Sometimes you will just give in and say, sorry...gotta check her out. Take it in stride. We are humans. Addicted humans. It takes time. Just make sure you are mostly growing and gaining control. Try your best to guard your eyes and to prevent being in difficult situations whenever possible, and to start training yourself to view women as people.

Use any method you feel helpful (like the ones mentioned above) to deflect oncoming thoughts threatening to take seed or to deal with thoughts already sprouting. 

Just a few points I found helpful.

1) If a thought comes don't fight it and try to force yourself to think about something else or tell yourself "stop, stop, stop", it doesn't help, it only makes it worse. Just accept the thought and move on. Gently remind yourself that shes also a person with likes and dislikes, and that the lust is coming from within you, not emanating from her. It might linger a drop but if you aren't actively pursuing it it will fade.

2) When seeing an attractive woman and immediately your brain registers all the thoughts you don't want. That isn't your fault. Its immediate. Don't beat yourself up. If you pursue the thought further then it's wrong. Accept it, tell yourself shes a person etc. and move on.

3) Expect it to be harder than you anticipated in the beginning. It gets easier eventually. Maybe 3 weeks, maybe 3 months, maybe more maybe less.

4) Post. Post. Post. It gives you accountability, the oilam offers hugs and kicks in the pants when needed, and serves as an inspiration to all.

5) Don't be too hard on yourself, you are awesome. Simply awesome.

                               Hatzlacha,
                                          
                                             Grant

Im Tevakshena Kakasef wrote on 18 Aug 2020 10:33:

I just want to add on to the add on here, the same way lust gives us the freedom to choose, so to we have the freedom to choose not to lust. We can be "forced" not to lust by whatever it is that you feel obligates you, but we can also choose not to lust and that is a choice that we are free to make.
The thing is we have to choose one or the other and in life we tend to choose the easier choice unless we have a good reason not to.

The freedom to choose lust is not a freedom at all if the other option in not an option at all that is called being "forced to lust". It is only freedom when we have the ability to choose between two options. 

We have to make not lusting a choice, not something we are being forced to do, and if you give yourself a reason that is bigger then the reason to lust then you will be able to make the right choice out of freedom.

In Judaism, we are supposed to be able to have a choice to do either right or wrong and conscious decision to do good. We are not supposed to feel forced, we have to work up a motivation to want to choose good.

A little off topic here, I know, but slightly relevant nonetheless.

All the best,
Wilnevergiveup

I'd just like to add a little to this. I think what you wrote here is the key point to lust.

The idea of lust is it grants a freedom. It doesn't have to be a release of pain. Doesn't have to be a getaway. More like a breakout. Its an attempt to be in control. We so often feel restricted, and lust is our outlet. Its our way to gain freedom. I can choose to let loose in this manner. With lust, I am free to act out whatever I may choose. I can do things, envision things, desire things, that are wrong. And that's liberating.

That could be why, many of us who work on lust, seem to feel it so much more than those who don't. Take the religious jew. We feel we are restricted, bound all the time by Judaism and its laws and demands. So lust comes us an outlet. For now, I am not bound by anything, I am able to let loose totally and completely. As the saying goes, we are 'releasing the beast.'

I'm just trying to explain how a very happy, emotionally stable, 13/14 year old could get so addicted to lust. I'm not sure its pain. But its a release to his restrictions. It doesn't have to be Judaism. Lust and specifically p thrives off taking societal moral standards and destroying them. I saw a couple of threads on here about people feeling immorality is being glamorized in their minds by lust and p. And I can see it happening with incest to. Lust is twisting of morals. We don't lust for the permitted, only the forbidden. Why? Because the permitted it within our confines. But the forbidden is outside our box, outside our prison of morality. There, we feel, we will find our liberation.

Again, not coming to argue. Most often we need this freedom as an outlet to stress, anxiety etc. But it can even be our own sense of morality, or our yiddishkeit, that is the catalyst for our desire for lust.

How did we become lusters? We felt more restricted than others. We felt more tied up. How do we stop being lusters? By realizing these bonds, our sense of morality and kedusha, are actually the free-est place in the world.

Hatzlocha all

Hi everyone,
I'm rather new to this site but have been trying to quit porn for 2 years now about. I definitely have times where I'm motivated to really try but a lot of times when I have any desires, they override my clearer thinking and I eventually break. It's tough to break past that habit when in the moment I don't feel bad about it and only afterwards am upset.
I just had a bad fall and am trying to figure out what to do to break what feels like an addiction that I've been wanting to stop for so long. I'm going to set up some filters on my phone and laptop and hopefully that helps. 
This sometimes feels so impossible to quit and I'm not sure what to do to stop for good.

TZITZIT wrote on 16 Aug 2020 20:08:

Tzadik.
https://www.torahanytime.com/#/lectures?v=101421

Day 6, still clean.
I've noticed that I became strangely angry in the last 1-2 days. I think it may be withdrawal symptoms. I've read once that we can experience such symptoms (anger / depression / insomnia). It's often a trigger that induces the temptation to "let go" or "feel good for a moment". What a lie to keep us imprisoned forever.

It's a real addiction and these are real symptoms. The brain is used to extreme dopamine rush and suddendly the amount of substance is greatly reduced. I've read somewhere that it's like we removed a leg from the table - the mind becomes unstable and needs time to find new balance, adjust, "grow a new leg". 

I believe it's true - it's easier for me to deal with these symptoms when I'm aware of them. I also remember that it gets much easier with time. For me first 2-3 weeks are always the worst. That's one of the reasons it's so difficult to stop - the fight is the hardest at the beginning.

During the years I've learned that fighting for yet another day, yet another hour is very important. It's not only teaching us discipline - it trains our brain to adjust, it strenghtens our willpower. 

Keep up the fight, brothers!

TZITZIT wrote on 16 Aug 2020 20:08:

Wow. I liked that speech. Keep us posted and I cant wait to hear more! 

Even though my intro was pretty much a downer as far as attitude goes and stated ambitions to be 40 days clean before the New Year (I gave in, unfortunately, and that's ok) ... I want to say thank you for to those who reached out to me on the forum and in IMs.

The support has given me strength not to beat myself up so hard this time.  Even though I struggle in observance in many areas (I am shomer Shabbos) this is where I, and my yetzer hara, have beaten myself up because I used to be "more frum" than what I am now.  I solely blame myself and my addiction to zera l'vatala for this.

What has given me strength is the fact that even though I may not be as observant as I used to, I am, in fact, still observant.  Whatever negative thoughts I've had about myself have started to turn around the past couple of days. 

I am looking forward to ridding myself of toxic thinking so I can keep positive thinking and growing.

Kol tov.

yct wrote on 14 Aug 2020 22:12:

No, probably not. A small kabbalah will probably not significantly help you in the long run. But a hundred small ones might. Or even ten smalls ones plus fifteen medium ones. If it's something that easy, why aren't you already doing it? Chances are you didn't make a conscious decision about it. I'm just suggesting how you can start somewhere. After a few days or a few weeks (you decide), you can up your game with bigger, better ones!

There is a quote that's attributed to Mark Twain. It goes as follows: "Giving up smoking is the easiest thing in the world. I know because I've done it thousands of times."

If you've never tried quitting cold turkey (I was assuming you had), then obviously go for it! I personally found the Taphsic Method to be really effective. However, even worse than cigarettes, the triggers are everywhere and we always have a "lighter" on us. An issue I used to have was that whenever I would set my next quit date, I would binge, telling myself I was getting it out of my system one last time; the cold-turkey mindset was making it worse for me as I was setting myself up for failure every time.

Over the years, I've replaced a lot of my electronic devices, configured them differently, upgraded my layers of filters several times, closed several social media accounts, reduced my contact with acquaintances that were dragging me down, took on new Torah study commitments, started volunteering, associated with better people, changed my eating and sleeping habits, and dozens of other things. There's no way I would have been prepared to take on all those things overnight. Just committing to suddenly taking cold showers was a little too hard. People I know who've successfully lost a lot of weight followed a similar approach.

It makes a lot of sense to me why this battle is called the yesod; it feeds off every part of my life and builds every part of my life. Whatever you choose, I wish you much hatzlacha. It's exciting for me to read about the "foundation and engine", in Grant's words, that you're building.

Aaron1 wrote on 14 Aug 2020 19:56:

Is is really gonna help me for the long run if I make such a small kabalah? In general to break addictions u need to go cold turkey not wean your self off it 

Thank you so much to everyone who has commented recently. I actually had stopped posting because I felt like I was talking to the wind.
Never underestimate the value of even a short simple comment in people's threads. It helps me a lot and makes me feel like I'm not alone. I actually am currently using the brainbuddy app for that reason. Its not a jewish app obviously, but I needed some more interaction. So thanks again and I hope we can keep the conversation going!

I'd like to parse the "powerless without a higher power" topic a bit more. The gist of what people here are saying is that we just make choices but the outcome is in God's hands. This is certainly true in many areas of life, such as having children, parnassah etc. We do our hishtadlus and hope for the best. However, I do not see how this concept is applicable to quitting P addiction. Chazal tell us that "everything is in the hands of heaven except for the fear of heaven." If I'm not mistaken, the traditional understanding of this chazal is that the execution of moral choices is in our domain, whereas livelihood health etc our Hashems domain. When it comes to a job for example, I can apply to a job but there is not guarantee that I'll get it. For that to happen I need God's help. However, If I decide not to act out with P than where exactly is the space where I need God's help? If I decide not to open my computer then it's game over and I won the battle. 
Hopefully this question is clear, but in essence it seems like a contradiction between the gemara in kiddushin saying that we need Hashem's help to overcome the yetzer hara and the gemara in taanis (and everyday experience) that says that moral choices are in our domain. I would greatly appreciate people's thoughts on this. Thanks!

Jj123 wrote on 14 Aug 2020 17:18:

This post answers your first post!
these are exactly the reasons (i think) that the WORD "teshuva" isnt used or is discouraged. Its ends up being a distraction. However, ACTUAL teshuva is exactly whats is being done here all the time! The "don't focus on teshuva" that you referred to is regarding the terminology! The methods are here just called other things.
Favt is many here having "doing teshuva"for years and gurnisht...
Levhaim

Wow! Great points being made.

I definitely agree that sometimes our over-association of teshuva with yirat ha'onesh leaves us in murky waters. That being said, I find a lot of the handbooks, booklets, and PDFs circulating on the site do give a balanced hashkafa.

Regardless, in my opinion, teshuva is inherently built into the GYE/12-step program(s). It's feasible that someone might think to themselves, "I refuse to eat lobster any more, but, man, those were the days!" or "Nah, that hechsher wasn't that bad." In case 1, there is some level of charata missing, and in case 2, there is some level of vidui missing. However, I don't think it's reasonable to worry that someone who joins GYE and performs azivas hacheit missed vidui and charata. From what I can tell, formerly-struggling non-addicts** don't reminisce or rationalize their previous behavior, and former addicts** certainly don't [**Apologies- I don't know if those are the proper terms to use].

I think putting all our eggs in the basket of azivas hacheit is the way to go.

I agree that we are agreeing Thanks y'all for fleshing things out regarding addicted people.

Regarding teshuva misconceptions and teshuva as a focus for non-addicts, would y'all agree with this?:

Trying to "check the box" for teshuva is totally missing the point. Trying to get rid of the personal guilt through teshuva is missing the point. Trying to only avoid onesh is missing the point.
Teshuva isn't a band-aid, it's a open heart surgery.
And until we get that, it's dangerous to use the word teshuva anywhere near anything that requires it. Because it'll cheapen and sabatoge the process.

So perhaps it is better even for people more on the not-addicted side of the spectrum that teshuva isn't mentioned.