Hi Guys, 
I have been chatting with lots of Chevra lately, and many people tell me that they are married and they still can't stop.
Also with Reb Grants story that a wife caught her husband and did not want to be married to him, at least that is where we are holding in the story.
I read a post from one of the women and the GYE put her on the stories.
This story is devastating.

Please read it. Please reconsider what you are seeing.
guardyoureyes.com/articles/stories/item/as-a-wife-i-beg-you-get-help?category_id=10

Porn ruined my ex-husband. Porn ruined me. I was married for 6.5 years. My husband was already addicted to porn before we got married. Ever since I got married, I realized something was completely off. My husband constantly criticized me and put me down. I was not pretty enough, sexy enough, and attractive enough. He never liked any of my clothes. Sex felt awkward, took place seldom and far between and often I felt like I was being punished.

It was hard for him to have an erection. I was young and naive. I knew our relationship is off but I could not put my finger on what exactly was so wrong. Mikvah nights meant nothing to my husband; he would not be interested, excited, and often we would not have intimacy after I went to the mikvah. The criticisms became more and more frequent. He would talk about breast implants and hormonal growth shots. I can't describe the amount of verbal abuse he put me through; he made me feel like I am the ugliest person in the world, worthless, and incompetent in every area of life. And when I told him that we need to talk to a Ruv about our situation, he refused. Yet, he found it in himself to confess that he's been watching porn and is constantly masturbating.

He told me he was going to stop watching porn and would like to make this marriage work. He agreed to go for help. For 6 years, while he was getting help, he never stopped watching porn nor did he ever stop putting me down and abusing me verbally and emotionally. It's indescribable all that he did to me. He was as if in a coma, completely self-absorbed, selfish, and emotionally distant. I was so alone all these years.

I was his perfect maid. I was the kind of wife that treated him like a king: took care of all his needs, cooked his favorite foods, did his laundry to perfection, bought him gifts and pushed him to help himself and was very supportive and tried helping him to let go of his lust addiction and all that mattered to him is that I did not measure up to his FANTASY WORLD OF PORN.

We had a boy together, but he was not a father to this child. He had no relationship with him at all. He had a relationship with PORN, not with people. Needless to say, he was not a Yid when we lived together. He had worked with many therapists over all these years. Nothing helped. I would continually find him watching porn. He grew more distant and sunk so low in Yiddishkeit. He never went to shul and stopped going on Shabbos, too. After living like this for over 6 years, I came to realize I can't put up with it any longer, and our marriage collapsed.

The separation shook my ex-husband strongly. He gave up his I-phone then and began working the 12-step program and going to a sex therapist. He also started going to shul. He cried a lot over the damage he had caused and acknowledged that he had sinned so much and treated me badly due to his addiction.

I am writing to you guys: don't wait up until it's too late, up until the damage is irreversible. You have the power to change if you want to. My ex-husband had to hit rock bottom to help himself. Do you really want to be split up from your loved ones? Do you want to go through separation and divorce to start developing real relationships with people and your own flesh and blood?

Get help right now and right here! You need to go for help, but you need to be determined to help yourself! I am writing to you because I care. I care for you, your wife, and your children. And I don't want anyone to experience the pain the way I did.

At loss for words..... kllal Yisroel is at loss for words. the words they sang at the levaya so much personifies the essence of this Godal. 
יהי זכרו ברוך

Well, she actually caught me twice.  The first time I made up a whole story and she believed it.  The second time, there was no denying it.  She approached me very calmly and lovingly and asked me what is going on. I will describe her emotions in a letter I wrote to my therapist in summer 2007.  But at that moment I ran to the kitchen and pulled a knife out on myself.  She took the knife away and told me I am being silly.  We spoke for a while and I told her that I used to have this problem in H.S. but have been cured since and this is a relapse.  I tried explaining her that this has nothing to do with her.  To impress upon her my sincerity with my fight (and I was always willing to pick myself up and not give up hope), I showed her letters which I wrote to myself.  I told her that I wrote these letters in H.S., when in fact I wrote them a week earlier.  She did not know what to say.  She was very confused about me.  Years later she would ask me about my issues.  There was one letter that always sat on top of my shaarei teshuvah which continues to be a constant reminder.  It is still there till today. 
It was my idea to go to therapy.  We went to a well known therapist.  This was in summer 2001.  I will describe that therapy shortly.  Well, six years later, summer 2006, I was in desperation, I thought I was the only one in the world with this problem, I wrote to this therapist and ask him for advice.

Below is an excerpt of the letter

My wife and I had come to your office six years ago telling you about this problem.  This was after being "caught" twice.  First time was with a bunch of magazines.  I made up a whole story and she believed me.  The second time was when I forgot to close my computer and she found inappropriate material on my screen.  That is when she confronted me and made me admit.  My wife was very supportive and understanding, albeit with a sense of resentment, betrayal and above all total confusion of what I am.  That is when I phoned you. 
Unfortunately, we didn't get too far with you and so we stopped going.  This was not due to your lack of skills and understanding of the problem.  On the contrary, I felt very comfortable with you and thought you could be very helpful.  The main problem was twofold.  Firstly, there was lack of direction and goal on our part.   We were faced with a dual problem that was intertwined.  I had my personal problem that needed to be addressed irrelevant of a marriage.  Then we had the new marital problem.  So when we went to you were not so focused.  We were very bewildered.  The second problem was that I couldn't fully express myself with my wife there.  I had lied to you in front of her about the extent of the problem.  I had told you that while this was an old problem, I had been "cured" from it for five years.  And this incident of being "caught" was a revival of an old skeleton.  However, the shameful truth is that I had suffered from this problem since I was 12 years old, and really began at age 10 (I am now 29).  It got extremely intense when I was 14. It has not simmered down but only gotten worse over the years.   So when I went to you, we were married for three years.  I had been doing inappropriate behavior behind her back all those years.  I could not admit it to you and her and the spot.  So obviously, the problem is going to be hard to deal with when you are not informed of the true problem that I was dealing with at the present.
There was another issue.  After being "caught" and sitting with you I felt internally cured.  I could never imagine doing this behavior again.  It was far from my mind and desires.  This is the honest truth.  And so I felt we accomplished what we needed.  In terms of my relationship with my wife, we basically spoke it out and she respected me again.  You had helped a lot in that regard.  You had explained to her how this has nothing to do with her and not rooted in rejection.  You emphasized that it was a personal problem that I was suffering from.  She understood that I could fall into the same trap again and made me promise that if I feel this problem I should speak to her.  So I went six weeks cold turkey.  That's a long time for me.  I felt great.  No urges.  I was cured.  My marriage is intact and my personal self is intact.  What could be better?  Well, one Sunday morning my wife was out of the house. I was home with my two year old.  And I got this urge, told my son to play in his room and went I right back to this behavior. 
Six years later now and things have only gotten worse.  Though, now I became smart.  I keep things confidential.  I clean up my tracks.  Once in a while, my wife gets a bit suspicious. Not enough to confront me.  Now don't think that I haven't tried working on this problem.  I have been trying very hard with myself.  For a while I did a little reward system with myself.  That worked for four weeks.  During those four weeks, I was "cured". I had no internal urges.  I had gotten filters over the years.  But that doesn't really help.  Even the best ones don't filter everything. I always manage to found things.
Externally, I am living a very nice life.  We now live in Israel with four children.  I learn gemara during the day.  My nights are spent making a parnassa.  I am very happy with what I do and feel very satisfied.  Torah learning is the focus of my life.  My spare moments are spent with the Gemara.  I am diligent about it and I truly love it.  Not to brag, but I consider myself one of the more advanced in my chabura.  People consider me a talmid chacham.  For some people I live that perfect balance between making a parnassa and torah learning.  Where Torah learning is my focus and parnassa is a means to the ends.  I tell you this to paint this very awkward picture for you.
Internally, I am a broken man. I am under constant Depression.  I am really a failure to society.  I fool the world.   I represent spirituality to many people.  But inside I am of the most corrupt of beings that walk this earth.   I am shining on the outside and dirty on the inside.  I am confused about my own self.  I sometimes wonder if I have demons inside of me.  I feel like Jekyll and Hyde.  I am two people in one.  I can walk from complex torah discussion in the laws of korbonos to my computer screen indulging myself of the worst pleasures known to mankind.  I am sincere in my leaning, but I have some other part of me.  I am not faking it.  I could be in engaging in bad behavior and receive a call from a friend about a complex sugya. [My siyata D'Shmaya in learning is taken away from me at those times, and I am unable to converse with clarity.  I will often have to daven very hard and promise never to do it again to regain the siyata d'shmaya.] I am a hidden man to my family.  I am living a lie to my wife.  I feel horrible with myself.  I fill my wonderful head with junk.  I am crying inside.  I have contaminated the vessels that hold my spirituality.   Every year I hope for a yom kippur, where I will do a true vidui to Hashem for my PAST aveiros.  But comes Yom Kippur, I am still holding on to them.  I tell Hashem on Yom Kippur that I am finished.  But a few days later, I usually get back into it.  I have contemplated suicide since I was 16. Though, in the past 5 years, not so much.  During my first year of marriage I would stand for long amounts of time at the top of a very tall building, ready to jump.   I just asked Hashem to take my life.  I can't bare this anymore.  I will get on a bus, and daven to Hashem for there to be an accident and I will get killed.  I will first cast away by problems, do teshuva and vidui.  This way I can die with teshuva.  I know this is not the way to think, but my mind thinks this way.  (I also saw this concept brought down in a very poular chasidus sefer.)  I want you to know the severity of this situation and how much I suffer.   
    This problem I experience comes in the way of my life, let alone the moral corruption it creates in me.  I will spend three hours on this instead of getting a project done.  I do not understand myself.  Why do I do that?  Why can't I just focus on what needs to be done.  I don't even feel good about it.  My wife thinks I am working to make money for the family when in fact I am destroying the fabrics and foundations of our home.  When I was working full time in the states, I would leave my office for an hour to go to the immoral parts of NYC and indulge myself.  This was during working hours.  Meaning, I risked losing my job just to excite myself.  This is classic for me.  I forget about life to indulge myself.  A clear sign of addiction.  I am clearly not healthy and not in control of myself.  Though, I am a very rational person. 
   About a year ago, I started to see the new buzz word "internet addiction".  I saw it all over the web.  That is when I began to relate to my own problem as an addiction.  I felt comforted and scared at the same time.  I realized that I can no longer deal with this on my own but I need professional advice.  But how can I do that? That means admitting to wife that for 9 years of marriage I have lied and "cheated" on her.  I truly believe that this is not a good idea.  I may cause her irreparable damage.  And certainly our marriage and children will suffer too greatly.  So on my spare time I read up on addiction and began working with the problem on my own.  Once again, I felt great.  I destroyed my yetzer hara.  It was like throwing him into the furnace. B'H, I was cured and will now become society's biggest hero.  I am the man who fought his inclinations.   Well, needless to say, this problem came right back.  A sleeping spirit was awakened in me one day. 
    [By the way this is a general cycle in my life.  I go through these spurts of optimism and prevail.  This has been going on since I was 16 years old.  I would fight with myself.  Believe I won, and fall to the lowest.  Get depressed. satisfied with low state.  Find courage to get up and fall again.  I have still not given up on myself.  I draw upon the classical works of R' Yonah and chovos halevovos for guidance in my fight.  The longest I have gone was six months when I was a bachur in Yeshiva 11 years ago.   I became the a big masmid in my yeshiva.  I was full of energy and chidushim.  The end of the zman, I fell prey to my reawakened urges.  I found a magazine shop, violated one of the worst aveiros to mankind.  I became withdrawn and depressed.  Nobody could figure out what happened to me.  My friends thought that I was suffering from burnout.  Today, my wife gets confused with me.  Why do I get down sometimes and all of a sudden lose all my energy.  When I am doing well, I have so much energy I feel like I could conquer the world.  I have some chapters in tehillim that I say to help me.  I ask Hashem for divine assistance.  I have developed a very weird relationship with Hashem.]

bored?
right now my parents are arguing (the only time they ever speak) as usual and my dads like why do u always yell?!and my mothers like "its uri.that kid is so dissapointing"
"i know.he's really disgusting."
"I dont know what he learns in yeshiva.how does he act like this?"

and all that happened was me coming home from work and getting yelled at my mom for being lazy and not helping in the house and not being home this shabbos and disgusting her.

at least theyre talking.usualy they just rip each other to peices (verbally)

Massive gray hallway...lots of strange unknown faces....the child grabs even stronger ontu his fathers pants...please dad i dont want to go...not today....tommorow
uri i told u i have to go to work i dont have time for this now
please.ill go with u to work...im scared
shut up stop being a baby ur pissing me off
dad the child is begging please
his father starts walking back towards the stairwell
the child follows happily yay were going home
his father stops suddenly in the stairwell
the child looks at him confused beseeching
daddy...
it happens quickly
the blow to his face knocks him to the floor
the child sits there stunned too stunned to cry
the father walks away...
the tears are frozen to his face as the child sits traumautized...
he sits there for a long time...
finally he gets up and walks into the classroom the tears still on his face dry as ice
he is no longer afraid...
at least not of school.

First, let me explain the name.
I once read in some stupid magazine that if a guy says his favorite comic book hero is batman, then it means he is reserved, keeps his emotions to himself, but he has a strong sense of justice and it will take time to get him to open up in a relatioship, if you can even get him into one to begin with. It'll become clearer later on.


Anyway, here's my story:

I am 22, male. I come from a broken home. I was first exposed to porn at a young age, around 10 or 11. Mayber even 9. I honestly don't remember. I remember once in seventh grade someone brought some pages from a magazine to school and we looked at them, but I wasn't like the other guys who could just look at them, enjoy them and then forget about them. I enjoyed them, obviously. That's normal. But I also wanted to keep them. I wanted the girl to come to life out of the page and be mine. In short, I was obsessed. I latched onto it very strongly. That was a pattern that would repeat itself for years. I couldn't really understand why the other guys didn't like it as much as I did. I thought maybe I had reached a later stage of puberty than they had or that they might even be gay! I didn't understand until much later that my obsession was a serious problem. It did not really manifest itself badly until relatively recently.
I remember in high school I would spend all day looking at porn if I stayed home sick. Once I came home in the middle of the day to get something for school and I told myself I'd just sneek in a quick peek. I did, for maybe 5-10 minutes, but I was surprised when I ran into my stepfather on the driveway as I was going to leave. Apparently, he had left something as well! That was close call, and that's the first time I can remember almost getting into some major trouble with this.

You have to realize that in those days (only 5-6 years ago) internet technology was not nearly what it is today. I looked mostly at pictures, and I tried like hell to find free video. Back then it was mostly stuff you had to pay for. But now there are plenty of sites with streaming, high quality videos of anything you can imagine. Like Youtube for porn. That wasn't around back then so it's much easier to access now. Plus I have my own computer now. All I can say is thank G-d that stuff wasn't around back in high school or I would be even more messed up.

Why am I so obsessed with porn? Truth is, I don't even like it anymore. I've become so desensitized, that I don't even get aroused unless I stay away from it for 3-4 weeks at least. At this point, I'm basically addicted in the physiological sense. Neurologically, I am chemically dependant on it the way a crack addict needs crack to keep functioning, if you can call it that. I want to stop but I feel like I can't. The longest I've gone free, that I've counted, not counting my 2 years in Israel where I went clean for nearly 10 months straight (mostly because I had no choice), is only 42 days. My high school coach used to say it takes 21 days to break a habit. I'm betting that's just an average...

So why the addiction? I have no idea. Obviously it's strange for a normal male to not like porn at all, but it's strange to be addicted too.
I think a lot of it has to do with the way I grew up. I live with my mother and stepfather when I'm home, which isn't much these days. Maybe, just maybe my addiction is more than just a corruption of the normal male sex drive. It is also a corruption of the need for love and to be loved. It is a fleeting attempt to plug the hole in my heart where love goes. You see, when you grow up without ever being in a home with both of your birthparents, and without seeing or feeling any hint of affection between your parent(s) and stepparent(s) in the way they look at each other or speak to each other, without ever recieving positive words, encouragement, and warmth, or any kind of clear direction in life, and instead seeing your parents fight and yell at each other like children and recieveing negative criticism for everything you do, then you develop incompletely and awkwardly. You have no self esteem whatsoever. You hate the world. You hate yourself. Some people turn to drugs. Some just kill themselves. Others channel their rage into hard work towards breaking free of the chains of the home and eventually saying "look at me now, no thanks to you. I told you so.". And others turn to porn. I have chosen these last two.

Ever since I was old enough to understand how messed up my home was I wanted to break free from it. I am absolutely obsessed with being the best husband and father I can possibly be, because I know the pain and the suffering--the absolute hellish anguish--that comes with a broken marriage and a broken home. I don't want my kids to go through what I did. I don't want my wife to be unhappy the way my mother is. It's not her fault either. I want to be everything my stepfather isn't. I am mature enough for marriage, which has been on my mind lately, but there's at least one giant monkey wrench stopping the whole thing. First of all, I am absolutely terrified that this addiction will not be abated simply by getting married, and I'm sure it won't be. I fear that it will rise up again and challenge my marriage. But more fundamentally, living with this problem is living with a character duality. I appear to be a decent guy to most people. I'm not the frummest guy ever, but I try my best to be a good person and to avoid making enemies. People like me. I learned in Israel for two years after high school. I am intelligent, and I suppose I am at least moderately good looking and I keep myself in shape. So, on the surface I would appear to be an all around good guy and a "good catch". But I have this dark side that no one knows about. And that, combined with the way I grew up, makes it very hard for me to have any kind of normal relationship with people. I just don't open up people. I guess partly because I am inherently distrusting of them (upbringing) and partly because if I let people into my little world they may see me for what I really am. Of course, you can't live that way forever and eventually I'm going to crack. Secondly, how can I marry someone with all those images burned into my eyes and my brain? Won't it seriously detract from my relationship? It's like I will have an emotional relationship with one woman but a sexual relationship with hundreds (actually probably closer to thousands). How will I do it? I have never even kissed a girl nor had a girlfriend but at the same time it is as if I have been with thousands of them. What do I do?????!!! Would it be hypocritical to want to marry a virgin after all I've done? Wouldn't it be unfair to her in some ways?! There are many other issues that I need to address before I can even think about marriage, but this addiction is one that has broad reprecussions, with regards to marriage and many other aspects of my life. It is perhaps the most fundamental of them all. If I fix this, then it might be easier to fix the other problems. Maybe. But I won't talk about them here (if I do, people might find out who I am).


So after rambling like a madman (I am usually very terse), it comes this: I must stop this behavior. Rationally, I know it must be done. But there is a part of me that says no. And there is a part of me that wants to push me down that road, that ends with being on the other side of the camera (at least with regard to the general behavior, not necessarilly literally). But I know that is wrong and I know it won't do anything positive for me.




So, how do I start stopping?

What do you find helps from the SA & 12 step stuff?
I think that I would feel too embarrased to do one in person (although that would probably only be the first little bit). Do you feel that it helps you significantly differently than the amazing chevra here?

Hi Mrs Mother.

I am certainly no psychologist and I did not read every single post but I did read your first letter. I am not a parent so you can take my advice for what it is worth or just simply discard it. I am not sure I have a right to give advice as I struggle with these issues. To me, you seem to behave towards your son as a commander behaves towards a soldier in basic training. I believe that the best thing you can do for your son is to love him regardless of his addiction or difficult tendencies. My brother is not an addict but he struggled at school socially, his father (my father) often would tell him to leave the house. It came to the point where my brother was not even welcome in his own house. What has happenend to that relationship - Well its over. My mother loves all her children equally and no matter what we did wrong, she still loved us. I think for your sake that one thing you cannot compromise on is your love for your son. I believe that you are doing so by invading his privacy. Perhaps you are not the best person to solve his addiction and you cannot do it with a "whip". A psychologist or an upstanding friend or Rabbi is probably more appropriate. Showing tough love by kicking him out the house is not an appropriate response. He is not on drugs or alcohol that he would behave violently towards you. I remember one of my siblings was looking at porn. I did not see it personally but my fathers computer technician noticed it when browsing through the history... My mom was concerned that his privacy was violated. Maybe that was not the correct response, but she loved him and was concerned for his honour. When your son looks at you he must see that you love him. If he sees his mother as a commanding officer he would rebel even more and look, checking through his things is not working so why carry on? I feel that there is a tendency on this forum to say that "you are right" or "I empathise with you" etc but in this case I believe that looking through your son's flash drive is not the correct thing to do!!! And perhaps you are the wrong person to help him off his addiction. 

Oh G-d, I fell... Just few hours before my top result. I know... What a shame...

You know what? What a success! Haven't got so far in many years. That's right. I fell. I take full responsibilty. It's nobody's fault but mine. But I'm not giving up. I'm picking myself up and dusting off. Already got my 24 hours badge. I'm starting again.


I found this poem, in which I see myself, my struggle and my strength. Perhaps you will find it useful too.

Couple of thoughts:
I had a great streak, lots of good thoughts, peace and focus on good things in my life. I want to continue doing that.

After I fell I vividly saw all those years of enslavement that I lost. All those wasted hours, days, weeks of my life. My heart was in terrible places and I used to feel very low. There were times I had no hope and realized that I was losing my life. I strongly felt that I don't want to go back to that.

Number one reason I fell is becuase I haven't guarded my eyes. I've heard the chapter from "The Fight" about the role of our imagination. There's a story there about a guy who was a chronic alcoholic, addicted so much that he almost died several times. He gets to the point where he decides to do something about it. One time he manages to stay clean for three months. And then, when he's at restaurant, the temptations come and he somehow convinces himself that one shot wouldn't do him harm, because he just ate a full meal plus he drank a glass of milk. Indeed, he notices that he feels fine. So he orders another shot and another glass of milk, telling himself that it would protect his stomach from alcohol. He wakes up in hospital some time later; he got so drunk that they almost lost him. What's the wisdom here? Any normal person would tell right away that it's insane to believe that milk would protect you from booze. Yet this guy somehow convinces himself with that and starts to belive it's true. There's a big lesson for us, how we can lie to ourselves and that leads us to perdition. 
I listened to that. Admitted that I know these mechanisms from autopsy. I was glad I was reminded how they works. Soon later... that's exactly what I did. I started peeking. Somehow told myself one peek wouldn't do harm. And then there was another. And another. I'm sure you know how it goes from there. I even tried to fight several times along the way. But I was already fighting a losing battle.

So brothers, remember. The real and most important time to fight is when you're guarding your eyes. The real struggle is not to peek. And if you haven't been there I can tell you already, that after 30+ days it does get easier. So raise your swords and fight. And remember: "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool."

It's day 2. I've stood up and started my journey yet another time. I don't know how far I will get, but I know that I will not give up. Pray for me, please.

T.

Hi Excon, welcome!
Regarding your question about movies, it's a little hard to answer, since it's not a one size fits all, in my opinion, and everyone needs to know his own situation.
First, it's forsure not a direct contradiction to the program here, we are working here on stopping to lust, and viewing pornography etc, and "kosher" movies are forsure not that.
Some here are working on abstaining from regular movies too, for a variety of reasons, many find it triggers them, and some just because of the waste of time and addiction of it.
But for some it can be too much to stop pornography etc and movies simultaneously, especially if you grew up with it, and it's part of your life. In which case it might be better to first work on getting rid from pornography etc first, and then see if/how you should work on other stuff.
But if you find it triggers you, and brings you to fall etc then it might be better to just stop it all.
Wishing you lots of hatzlacha, and looking forward to hear from you!