For me:
To be addicted means to be afraid to do anything. It means missing out on so many things I could have otherwise done. It means ruining your self-confidence. It feels like you are in a black pit just sinking and sinking and sinking. It is like walking up on a rope, a rope that wobbles all the time, goes up at a steep-angle and the only thing you can use is one of your feet.

Moreover it has severed relations with my family, has impacted on the social life with friends and has maybe worst of all locked doors to someone I really (mentally) liked. The only one I can blame is essentially myself...

DO NOT GO DOWN THE SAME HELL

Sorry for ranting and painting such a bleak picture - thats the way I see this addiction.

Hi ykv,

I don't know if boruch has the time now to post, but I think he would be a good resource.  Boruch has been diagnosed w/ ADHD and has done quite a bit of research on the subject.  You may want to PM him.

My teenage son, who has been out of yeshiva for more than a year and already has a lot of garbage on his mp3 player, is about to buy himself a new sophisticated cellphone. It may be, that the main reason that he wants to get it is because he thinks it's what makes him "chashuv". But he definitely has no idea at all what he is getting himself in to. I was planning on having a talk with him, as we do have a very good relationship, but lema'aseh he is a teenager and that means that parent's words don't carry much weight.

I beg of every single one of you: Please try to write something to my son. Tell him what it means to get addicted. Tell him what you would give to be able to turn the clock back... Tell him what what gehinom on this world he can avoid, if he uses his seichel now................ Tell him anything that you think might help.

He can't read English, but I can read it to him. If you can write in Hebrew, of course that would be much better. 

LO SA'AMOD AL DAM REI'ECHA!!!

Thank you very much!!!

I am now finishing my third week of being clean and b"h, bli eyin hara, I have had close to no urges. I had one small urge last week, but it was so weak, one can barely call it an urge. I fought it nevertheless. On top of that I have had very subtle bad thoughts, and therefore for the most part my whole mind has been clean.  It has been b"H, a big bracha.  Now I have had this in the past, but every time I get this, I get hit out of nowhere with the urge and then I fall.  So now that I am experiencing my 'high', I want to take proactive measure to prevent this fall again.  In my current state, I cannot ever imagine watching P. or M. It is so far from my mind.  I have no struggles right now, nor have I had in the past 19 days.  But I am scared it will hit me again.  Now, I was told by my dear friends on this forum not to get scared.  And I took the moto for myself to "be scared that he could hit any moment, but I am confident that I will win". But I am rationally scared as opposed to emotionally scared.  The difference is that when a person is rationally scared, he is justified.  I know I have failed in the past.  And I am beginning to see the picture that brought it on, so I want to figure out how can I prevent it for the future. 

So I began to look into myself and figure out what are the current triggers.  At a later state, I may want to psychoanalyze myself and understand childhood background that may be deeply rooted in me.  But for now, I want to understand what situations make me tick?  what moods make me tick? what inner feelings make me tick?  And the more I think, one thing comes to mind for me and that is ADHD, which only a few years ago did I discover that I have.  Now, I will describe shortly my self-assessment, but for now, I would like to pose this question to the forum.  Are there any studies about linking addiction to ADHD?  The reason I am asking is for the next issue,  And that is, is that if I have a certain condition called ADHD, and that is contributing to my addiction, well it would be foolish to try to solve the problem of my addiction and not address the ADHD that is contributing to it.  So my second question is: if there are studies linking the two,what are the appropriate approaches to solving the problem?

Now I will describe some of my finds about myself.  I realized as a youth, I craved lust like crazy.  I ran after it. It was on my mind all the time.  I could not rid myself of it.  Every opportunity I had to act out I did.  If I was in a back seat of a car, I would do it there.  I did some really insane things.  Even after I had a spiritual awakening at the age of 16 (I am now 31), and decided I am going to change my whole life and 'frum out', as we like to say, my lust stayed with me.  I would stare at women at every possible moment.  I would try to restrain so hard from buying magazines, but I did it from time to time.  I was considered one of the top bachurim, and got learning awards, My classmates looked to me as a role model for being a masmid.  Some of my friends even asked advice on how to stop masturbating, figuring that I had the answers.  And the truth is that I loved learning. But I also loved lust.  After acting out I would cry my heart out, and then contemplate suicide. I would stand at the top of a tall building for long amounts of time ready to kill myself.  Even today, when I think of my emotions then, I remember with vivid memories the feelings of wanting to commit suicide.  I can see myself actually leaping.  I really wanted to die.  This lasted through my first few years of marriage, where my lust was uncontrollable and my suicidal thoughts remained in me.  Getting married brought a new opportunity for me. I knew my wife's schedule and I knew when I could watch porn without her walking in on me.  I was working in NYC at the time, and I would leave work mid-day to go to dirty places.  This was during working hours.  If I was caught, I would be fired on the spot.  But I could not help myself. 

But even during all these years of intense lust, I know that one of the main triggers for this lust was frustration and inability to focus and distraction.  When I was in school, elem,  H.S. and college, I remember that I could not sit in front of a book.  And whenever I tried, I went straight to masturbating and then to porn, if it was accessible.  And if it wasn't, I would go crazy trying to get it.  I would roam the streets, until I found something.  There were so many times that I was determined to sit down and study and get my material done.  But I could not concentrate.  I always felt distracted.  I would get annoyed as if someone was distracting.  But it was my own self.  Already in elem school, I had this issue.  Many times, I could not even study for more than 10 minutes without the distraction.  Now, I would also get frustrated with work.  If I had to write a paper, and could not think of what to write, I would get very frustrated, and move on to masturbation.  That was like the next logical step.  If you can't think, might as well masturbate.  I would often hate my teachers for giving me assignments that I could not do, because I would blame my failure to control myself on them.  [it is interesting to note, that when it comes to learning, I can concentrate for hours on end undisturbed, writing chidushei torah.  But even then, a minor distraction could throw me off.  People are amazed how intense I am.  They do not realize that if I were not intense I could not learn] Now these two components, inability to focus and frustration are very much key elements of ADHD.  There are two more situations that brought it on.  I know that boredom is another one.  Now, b"h, I have always lead a very fruitful life and always kept myself busy. But when I would end up in a situation that I had to do something that I lacked interest in, I could not get the job done no matter what.  Until today, I suffer from this. I cannot accomplish the most simplest task when I lack interest.  And when I try to do it and I can't, I move on to masturbation and porn. Another trigger is the element of accomplishment.  This is a strange one.  Whenever, I worked hard on something and came to a point of accomplishment, I would move on to porn and masturbation.  I remembered this happened the day I got a job acceptance, I was so excited I went to porn.  It was so strange.  It was as if I did not know what to do with myself.  Strangely enough, this is related to the boredom factor because both stem from a feeling of 'now what, might as well do that.'  Now the last aspect that I will mention over here is the power of impulse.  And I do not understand impulse.  But this is perhaps a common enemy for many of us addicts here.  And that is that all could be calm, and then I get this impulse, out of no where to just look at porn.  And I just do it.  This is very foreign to a non-ADHD person.  But to us ADHD'ers, we know the power of impulse all too well.  Now, this is where the filter fits in very well.  Now obviously, I also  had plain old lust for its own sake as well as curiosity.  If I would see a woman dressed in a certain way, I would experience lust and desire and desire until... This was lust out of exposure.

Of  course there are more situations, and some of these overlap, but I am trying to clarify the issues for myself as much as possible.  In all of these situations, once the lust was in me, I could not get it out until  I would spill my seed.  I would sit in class and think about it.  I would be on the subway and think about it.  I would sit in my bed at night and think about it.  I was not calm until I went back to it.  I have always had a strong level of imagination and fantasy.  [One of the things I began working on in the past year was learning to control my thoughts and not just actions. B"H, I have come a long way.  I have begun working on myself even in regards to my own wife.  I realized there is a time and place for everything.  It is not appropriate to be thinking about ones own wife (especially when she is nida, igros moshe), as this is objectively detrimental and it leads to unclean lewd thoughts.  The y"H tricks us into thinking this is a mitzvah. That is the way he works (see mishlei perek 5).]

Well, I realized that while I had this uncontrollable desire for lust which was often triggered by the above situations accompanied me for many years, as my late 20's came, it simmered down immensely.  I do not know when the change happened.  But I do know that today I realized that lust is not my problem.  It is porn.  When I was young, I was addicted to lust, and the porn was my avenue for lust.  Today it is porn that I am addicted to.  In fact, I seem to hate porn.  I stopped enjoying it.  But I had to do it. It is so strange.  It's like it was part of my nature. I would resent my own self for it, that I would do something that I do not even enjoy.  I hated every second, but did it anyways.  But one thing I realized is that all my triggers are still the main causes.

I am sorry for writing such a long post.  I have lots of thoughts and i need the space to convey myself clearly.  If anyone wants to share similar feelings please go ahead.  If anyone has important comments how I should go about helping myself.  As I mentioned at the start, I am in a 'high' now and feeling awesome with myself.  My daveing and learning are at all time high.  I have no urges for porn.  But I am rationally scared for the future.  If there is something in my personality that brings this on, I feel I should deal with the root.  Thanks for reading.

Yes, one of the most important steps in the healing process, and perhaps one of the hardest, is learning ruthless and brutal honesty. Not just with those around you, but with one's own self as well. Learning to honestly KNOW who is talking to you, is it your soul or your addiction? Honestly identifying the tricks of the Yetzer Hara and not falling for them any more. Honestly admitting surrender. Honestly admitting powerlessness. Honestly admitting our mistakes. Honestly admitting to our accountability partners and to the group - our deepest inner feelings and struggles. It is hard, but Oh So Freeing!!

one more thing (i think) these incentives that i mentioned are not enough to make us stop the addiction.in fact there ARE no incentives to make us stop the addiction, that's why it's an addiction - you can't stop. BUT, they are (or should be) incentives to seek help and treatment for the addiction, hopefully.and group support is THE key, the ikar to getting help - just read Dr. Twerski, i am not making this up on my own, i am getting this from THE expert on this. jack

Thank you very much, Elya.
Actually, I think I agree with everything you wrote. When you say "your life has become unmanageable" it seems to me that you mean to say that you refuse to continue living like that (please correct me if I'm wrong). Some people understand those words quite differently.
I'll explain myself: Let's take me for example (me not "Me"). I went through many stages and I struggled for many years. I was never at peace with it; I was always quite desperate to brake free.
Because I was (pretty much) always fighting back, it never really got "out of hand" - it never interfered with my life in an unmanageable way. There was no breaking point, no hitting rock bottom. I was always desperate, not because my life was unmanageable, but because the addiction/drive was unmanageable, and that's unacceptable to me(which is, I think, what you mean).

If I understand you correctly, the meaning of the first step is: 1)You must decide that this just can't continue!!! 2) You must realize that you can't do it yourself; you need Hashem's help. (There is someone on the forum, that understood it all very differently)

For people like me [and I believe there are quite a few of us here] different wording would be understood a lot better. I think the wording of the steps turns some people off unnecessarily.

Thanks again for your help.



Rabeinu Guard, is that really all you have to say? Don't hold your breath, but I do hope to start working on it very soon.

hello everybody. first let me tell you that i love you all and i am with you in spirit even though i dont know you, and you may be thousands of miles away from me, but our neshamos are all connected, we are all part of one body, Hashem's nation.and just as i love my foot and my hand, they are separate limbs of the same body, and i must take care of them.
secondly, if you speak to elya he will tell you that there are hundreds and hundreds and hundreds more, of NON-JEWS attending SLA group meetings, because they realize that this addiction can ruin their lives. in fact, any addiction can ruin your life, whether alcohol, drugs or our inyan.and this is their incentive.but we, who want to follow Hashem's Torah, and understand that Hashem wants the best for us in this world as well as the next world, we have an added incentive to seek treatment for this disease.yes, hashem will look at us and judge us favorably, and recognize we have a disease.but why rely on that? it's better if we get over it, and not have to rely on hashem's mercy.believe me, we will have to rely on His mercy anyway.but why not try to reduce that reliance, and actually have merits that we dont need Hashem's mercy for? yes, moshe relied on Hashem's mercy, not on his deeds, but he still had plenty of merits!
so, we of hashem's nation have 2 incentives to seek treatment, which are really one - because the intention of Hashem was that we should live good lives,meaningful lives, therefore it is worth our while to seek treatment, no matter what form that treatment takes.do you want to be found out and ruin your family? some of us were lucky and were never caught.but some of us were caught and have not-so-lucky endings.which camp do you want to find yourself in? you MUST receive treastment for this! your life and the life of your family depend on it! warmest wishes, jack

A new warrior has joined the Almighty's Front-Line Army!

Dear Jew,

Just last week, "Ano-nymous" and "Be-Holy" hit 90 days of sobriety on this board in the forum. You can do it too.

There are two secrets to breaking free. Never forget them. Write them into your heart.
1) Never accept it. Always keep trying. Never give up. Believe that with enough work and the right tools, you can break free.
2) Never let a fall get you down. That is the trick of the yetzer hara and just leads to further falls.

In a sense, it seems that these two principles conflict with each other. Because if you never accept it and believe you can stop - so how do you not get down when falling? But we have to reconcile ourselves to this seeming conflict if we want to make progress. Every little bit we do in this struggle is reason to rejoice!

Shmiras Habris is known in the Zohar as "Yesod". It is the foundation, the part that is underground, that no one sees. It is the real YOU. And if the foundation is weak, indeed the whole building is weak. That is why it is so important that you get control on this before the cracks in the foundation cause the building itself to start to crumble.

The bottom line is, it is essentially a sexual addiction, and as such, it needs to be dealt with in the right way. There are tried and proven methods for dealing with this addiction. The home-page of our website has a whole list of the tools on our network. Grab a hold of them and don't let go. Here are my initial suggestions.

1) A strong filter is a must. Having it all within hands reach will make it almost impossible to start healing. See our filter section for all the options and info.

2) Join the daily Chizuk e-mail list, if you haven't yet. You will learn approaches and tips every day!

3) Join Elya's FREE weekly phone groups on Sunday 3/4 PM. (Ask me for the number and PIN). It's fully anonymous, no one knows you are even listening in. It is run through a phone-conference company. You need group support, you need to hear others who are going through the same thing, even worse off than you - and yet making wonderful progress.

4) Read the stories of recovery on our site. You are not alone. People much worse off than you have done great feats of Teshuvah.

5) See a sex-addiction therapist. There are religious ones, but it doesn't have to be. See this page for a list. If you can't afford it, join the Tuesday night conference call for only $10 a session, with a frum sex-addiction therapist on the line. A sex-addiction therapist can help you work out the underlying issues that keep bringing you back to this.

We are here for you dear Jew. Grab on to this website and forum, and don't let go. It's your ETERNITY we are talking about here. Write on the forum when you feel weak, you will get a lot of answers and chizuk!

I would agree that for people who struggle/d with these type of addictions should not do Shlichus in these type of places, no matter how holy and worthy this job is. Everyone needs to know themselves.

Chaza"l tell the story of Chanina and Oshia (I think) that were unmarried and used to fix the shoes of zonos in the market place and even fit the shoes on their feet, and yet never lifted their eyes to look at them. And Chaza"l say that on such people Hakadosh Baruch Hu bears witness and praises them.

But Elya's point is well taken. When we remember what we are here for, whether at work, or even in the world. Why are we here on Earth? We can remain focused and keep our eyes clean.

Jack, I am so impressed that you are striving to achieve control of your eyes as well. This guy Jack, he just never gives up and never stops growing. It's truly amazing!

I think that I mentioned in another post that if you're in this forum you are doing a first step.  Powerless means once you begin you cannot stop as far as the addiction is concerned.  It also means you cannot stop on your own, you need to trust Hashem that HE will help you stop.  Granted you have to stop acting out in order to receive Hashem's help, HE's not going to shower you with abundance if you're filthy.
the other part of the first step is that your life has become unmanageable.  If you're on this forum looking for answers your life is unmanageable.

even if you know right from wrong halachically, if you're addicted, you're going to do it anyway.  that's what powerless means.  So I disagree on that point.  All 300-400 people on this forum KNOW it is wrong, why are we here?  We're here because we cannot control this by ourselves, we're powerless and we need G-D and others to help us. 

I don't know about Chassidus, but I think (just my opinion) that a lot of people, addicts and non addicts alike, have a very superficial understanding of Hashem.  They seem to simply go through the motions of davening with very little Kavanah or relationship.  When good things happen they say, Kochi, V'Oztem Yadi Osu, etc.  I am responsible for this success.  When things don't go the way they think, they say, Where is Hashem, what does he want from me?  This is nothing new, it's in Devorim also.

So even though we're all "frum" it does not necessarily automatically mean, we trust Hashem for every little action.  We Should, but it takes work.  You don't just wake up as a kid and now as an adult and believe.  That's why we still have to "work" at the 2nd and 3rd step. 

My second and third step came clear to me this past Shavuos when I went to a weekend in NJ
and heard speakers from Gateways talk about happiness, finding your passion in life, success, etc.
They also spoke about really trusting that whatever happens is what is supposed to happen.

Again, just my opinion.

Wow GUE ... you are really putting the metaphorical gun to my head here

All I can say is that I am committing myself 100% to recovery and will consider any and all options if and when the necessity arises.

I should have been a politician w/ that answer ... right?

I could leave it at that, but I will explain myself.  I am not the type of person to make bold proclamations and rash decisions based on something that has not yet happened.  Committing to a 12 step program would mean major changes to my schedule and necessitate some creative explanations to my wife.  Even if I were to commit to meetings, I am not sure boruch's group would be best for me.

I certainly cannot argue that the group support is an extremely powerful tool in fighting addiction.

So let me reiterate ... I will reassess my strategy if and when the need arises.

As for now I am on day 43 and B"H doing well.

Hatzlacha to all of you and thanks GUE for looking out

shomer wrote on 17 Feb 2009 20:30:


Shomer, I sensed it in your previous posts and I see it again here. This is not at all about comparisons between the two of us and who is ahead of who. This is not even about where you are today. I really believe that right now you are doing very well.

This is about something that has gone under your own radar but will be obvious to people with perception. Again I say this out of respect for you, recognition of your potential and care for you.

I have never claimed better results than you, I have never claimed to have missed less night sedorim, less minyonim or to have more weeks of sobriety and yet you keep feeling the need to highlight all of these. Everything I am doing today is only because of your involvement a long time ago. I have frequently, freely and openly acknowledged that to your face and I openly acknowledge that here. So what is the point with these comparisons? I'll tell you, because others will see it before you do.

Exactly as you describe, you were working your addiction for years while I was nowhere. You were on the other forums while I was slipping and falling. You were here on this forum before me. And you were way ahead of me by every and all standards. Then just over 4 weeks ago I started posting here with dramatic posts of permanent azivas hachet, teshuva sheleimo, significant and radical change. I started to work on my addiction with my therapist. I got heavily into 12 steps meetings. And as the honest person that you are, somewhere, at least subconsciously you asked yourself a basic question. How come boruch, who was nowhere for all these years, is using a therapist, is heavily into 12 steps and is putting so much into this, while I, who am working on this for years, am not as heavily involved?

You know I am not the shyest guy and when I talk and post of what I am doing, I talk and post with such enthusiasm and vigor as if to say, this is what everyone should be doing and it can be very threatening to people, like yourself, who are in it for the long term with steady and persistant growth. Who knows? There must be others on this forum who rather than being inspired by what I have written will feel threatened and overwhelmed. But no doubt you feel it strongest since we are such close friends and since, however you slice it, this is a seismic shift in the status quo of our relative engagement in the battle against addiction.

So the question is how to deal with this very real problem? What message is there for you and people like yourself who are taking the steady and sure approach of persistant and consistant growth?

Now, I am going to be brutally honest with you here shomer. The response you chose was to explain our differences by attempting to define shittos on the fly. Sur mera. Asseh Tov. Issur Yichud. But that is not the right response. You gain nothing from shittos that are created to defend where you are right now.

You only stand to lose because you are doing what you are doing without expressing where you are as a shitto and expressing where you are today as a shitto risks limiting what you might have otherwise been prepared to do, at some time in the future, be it in mussar, 12 steps or anything else.

The right response to my recent and dramatic arrival on this forum is to recognize, firstly, that we are all different and that it is not the spectacular that counts but what works. Spectacular works well for me and what works for you will be different, at least in style, if not in substance, than what works for me.

The right response is to realize additionally, and most importantly that your path until now has been one of steady and consistent growth and that you will do best by continuing it as best as you can, no matter where it takes you and no matter what happens to the status quo.

The right response, for you, is to realize that everything I am doing today is all in your zechus and so you will only gain from it and not lose from it.

shomer wrote on 17 Feb 2009 20:30:


And the new boruch also says that the 12 steps are not an obvious fit for everyone and there is a time and place for them and that time is not necessarily now.

Ultimately, the best and surest path is the path which does whatever it takes. That means not setting artificial limits on what will work for you. If the 12 steps are really not for you then they are not for you, and that is all. That has nothing at all to do, however, with getting into attempts to define shittos. So, if you want to say that the 12 steps are not for you, say it like it is, "I don't believe that the 12 steps are for me". That's what I originally believed and said for myself. The truth is that the 12 steps are certainly not an obvious fit for you, and by the way, they weren't an obvious fit for me either.

shomer wrote on 17 Feb 2009 20:30:


It is not your decision not to do the 12 steps today that is a problem. It is your creating shittos that could decide today what your are not prepared to do in the future.

shomer wrote on 17 Feb 2009 20:30:


If you want a real apples to apples comparison then, do yourself a favor, ignore totally how I do, for better and for worse, because we are very different people, with very different nisyonos.

The real apples to apples test is how you actually do against how you could have done. To the degree that you are ready to do whatever it takes at the right time and to go the full distance, I know you will do exceedingly well, and to the degree that you attempt to set artificial limits in the guise of shittos that will only serve to artificially maintain the status quo, you risk seriously short-changing your effort to break addiction, your path to teshuva and your potential growth.

Don't let this become a competition, because you risk needlessly boxing yourself in a corner. You don't need to copy me, you just need to do as you have until now, to continue to do whatever you can and to keep an open mind.

shomer wrote on 17 Feb 2009 20:30:


And so you should want my hatzlocho because without you I would not be posting on this forum, I would never have meaningfully addressed my addiction, I would have no accountability partner, no accountability software, no filtered DSL, I would never have even gone for treatment of my ADHD, without which I would never have realistically gotten anywhere.

EVERYTHING I have today is thanks to you and if you want such zechusim to continue, you had better keep davening for my hatzlocho and you had better mean it too.

I confess that the majority of my day is spent thinking of sex and how to act out.This has sapped me of my true self.The 12 steps are right on.I am so powerless to lust.It has prevented me from so amny important,very important things and especially family things.I thought that with rading a new age book on addiction in afew weeks  time I would be cured.Well that is simply a lie,which is something I am quite good at.Don't get me wrong,I m not getting down on myself.just being honest.All of my davening,tehillum,tikkun klali.....others stuff just hasn't stopped me  from falling into the hands and power of the y'h.I need help and I will get help.Today I started reading the 12 steps and will do so regularly.My Dr. will meet with me and discuss a plan using them as well.I am having trouble really letting go and letting G_d.I do realize that I am totally powerless to this illness and only  Hashem can help me.I want to know how do I let go and give myself complety over to Hashem?