Dear Holy Bochur,

When a father teaches his son to walk, he holds his hands and walks with him. As the the child gets more of the hang of it, the father starts to let go of the child and step back - holding out his arms that the child should walk to him. The child may ask; "why father are you letting me go just when I am doing so well? Answers the father; "because I want you to walk on your own my son".

You made an amazing and powerful Teshuvah, from the lowest to the highest. Hashem was holding your hand the whole time. Now he is stepping back a bit and hoping you will learn to walk even more.

The Yetzer Hara can only be fought "lima'lah min hada'as". He consistently asks questions like Pharaoh did: "Who is Hashem that I should listen to him?" The Yetzer Hara cannot be answered with logic. After all, look at the 10-20 different things you wrote in your original post over here. Instead, "Hakeh es Shinav" - knock out his teeth. Don't even get into an argument with him.

Lust is a poison. You have succeeded in ridding yourself of this poison. If you would feed it, you would want more and more and never be happy. Are the goyim happy? When lust strikes, or thoughts of past experiences come up, try to ascociate these memories with the pain and emptiness you felt AFTERWARDS. You see, the yetzer hara wants you only to remember the good, but blocks out the bad. It's human nature. This is how memory works. But if you would remember the feeling of emptiness and pain that you had when you were addicted to these things, you wouldn't even have a test. Memory works through association. Try and associate the old memories with the pain you felt.

Remember that we human beings come from a putrid drop and will one day rot in the ground. We will become old and sick in the process. Everywhere around us is sickness and suffering. Our pathetic 80 year existence has no meaning - UNLESS we rise above it all and choose to be a SOUL and not a BODY. You have done that. You are doing that. You should rejoice that of the billions of people on this planet whose lives are meaningless, rotting flesh, you have succeeded in bringing meaning and purpose and light to the world, and pleasure to G-d himself - the creator of all the worlds!!

Specifically when all is dark and you don't FEEL the greatness of what you are doing, when everything feels bland and you can't find joy, THOSE are the moments of true Lishma- true Messiras nefesh - and those are the moments that will make your Neshama soar!

Tzadik Be'emunaso Yichyeh.

I love you, dear holy Yid! Keep posting here and you'll be inspired, and we'll be inspired.

I can't thank you guys enough for helping me get to where I am right now. This coming Purim I will B''H also have a personal miracle to celebrate besides for the custom miracle which we all celebrate every year, thanks to your incredible website. It has not been an easy road but thanks to this website, the daily emails and the weekly SA meetings I have been able to remain strong.
I have learnt 2 yesodos regarding being clean.
1) In order to carry on being clean one has to accept that he will be an addict for life. That the struggel will remain with him until he is a 120 years old and nothing less. By accepting this it makes it easier to hold up your shield on a daily basis, no matter if you are sober for 50 days, 5 years or 25 years. Obviously it will get easier as time goes on but one should always have in the back of his mind that he is still an addict.
2) Take one day at a time, for me that really helps. Whenever one is faced with a challenge he shouldn't look in to the future but rather tell himself that the important thing is to survive this very day and to try to stay sober atleast until tomorrow. Whatever happens after that is irrelevant because one can only control the present moment and nothing else.
Nothing is ever a guaranty but one can only gain by trying different methods.
May hashem give us all the strenghth to carry on fighting.

Wow, that was beautifully put. Profound!




I bless you Yaakov, that the time should never be right. But yes, be OPEN to all possibilities. I have read your story above and it is a classic case of serious addiction. Let's hope that now that you have found us, and now that you have been clean last year for 6 months, let's hope indeed that the vicious cycle has ended. But if Chas veshalom it hasn't - leave the door open to a new path of hope.

Ykv,

I agree with you completely.  This root cause of this disease is emotional.  The connection to our inner selves was never fully developed, hence the Jekyll and Hyde syndrome where we can be so successful and productive on the outside yet so troubled and pained on the inside.  The two need to be in synch...and when they're not, the result is pain!  Pain leads us to self medicate through porn, to escape and feel good. Good therapy focuses on addressing the root cause - lack of emotional development and how to really feel and experience life through your own perceptions, not intellectually explaining the world with books or someone else's words, but your own.  I can tell you that the feeling that you're slowly connecting to yourself is the most exhilarating, exciting and incredible feeling I have ever experienced.  It empowers you - you begin to know who you are and what your real strengths and weaknesses are, not what your second grade teacher or high school Rebbe said about your potential but what it really is!  This self knowledge is the beginning of true Avodas Hashem.  You begin to develop yourself, to work on yourself, and to feel yourself growing closer to Hashem and to know that he loves you and that you're actualizing your true potential and doing what you were created to do!  It's fulfilling, satisfying and positive, Ykv.

And this site enables that very same emotional expression which is why it's so healing and helpful.  Believe me, I was never the one to speak up in a crowd.  What would I say?  I had no opinions or ideas that I thought needed to be voiced because they were all based on intellect alone and could easily be refuted by a good argument.  But here I am, expressing myself.  And guess what?  No one has to agree with me and I'm not concerned about counterarguments or that I'll lose the debate.  Because this is me, it's not a debate, and I'm a person who's self expression is no less worthy of being heard than anyone else's.  Plenty of people say ridiculous things, the worst that can happen is that my comments will be lumped in with theirs...but perhaps they'll be viewed as useful and help someone.  At a minimum, they help me by enabling self expression.  Your words helped me too.  Hearing your incredible story, how it's affected you and how you've been dealing with it is an amazing source of Chizuk!  We're all in this together.

One thought for you.  You say:

Although it seems obvious that you denied it's likely a sign that the addiction is still there.  Only by letting go completely can you beat this.  Denial shows that you think you may still be able to do this on your own.  You'll manage, it's not a problem, so you can deny and not worry.  That's what the Y"H wants you to think but it's all part of the cycle.  Break the cycle by letting go...

Keep posting...

Ykv_schwartz wrote on 05 Mar 2009 22:24:


Yaakov, there is nothing to debate, we just need a little bit more clarity.

Yesterday, you wrote that learning in a moment of nisoyon as described by the Rambam and Chazal is not an easy option for you, even with the 12 steps because in a moment of nisoyon there are no 12 steps for you. You are certainly not alone, as I posted on these forums I heard something very similar from Shomer very recently. He said that in a time of nisoyon there is nothing. Now, Yaakov, I was no different than you and Shomer, before I got involved and invested in the group I too would have been unable to implement 12 steps in a moment of nisosyon. And like you and Shomer the very idea of turning my mind to learning in a time of nisosyon would have been an immense struggle. So on this we are very clear, by default, the idea of implementing anything in a moment of nisoyon is extremely difficult if not sometimes unattainable.

How about the people who go to 12 step groups? Last night I went to a 12 steps meeting and listened to one goy after another discuss how he had at one time been totally immersed in addiction all day and now thanks to the steps and the groups whenever he gets an urge he just works through the surrender to their Higher Power, and they surrender in two ways, they surrender themselves to do His will and not theirs AND they surrender to their Higher Power all expectation of ever getting cravings and lust. They discussed how when that doesn't work then right then and there in the middle of a nisoyon they call a fellow member from the groups and if that doesn't help they attend the soonest possible meeting. As one guy put it, if that doesn't work he does all three simultaneously! One guy put it beautifully, if I can use the 12 steps to beat craving, addiction and lust then anyone can.

Yaakov, you, Shomer and I, are infinitely holier and wiser than any of these goyim were so how can they do something that none of us could do?

Well I will first tell you what is not the answer. It is not because of group therapy. Group therapy makes you feel heard, it doesn't give you techniques and abilities you never had.

So what is the answer? From first-hand experience I can tell you that what is really going on in the fellowship is that you see and hear in the flesh people implement something that sounds very abstract, very remote and seems unattainable and when you see with your own eyes that even goyim coming from the lowest places are able to do it, you see that they can keep it up for 5 years, 10 years, 13 years and you finally realize that you can do it too, all you need to do is just join the groups and work the steps together with everyone else and get them from everyone else, especially the long haulers.

Now Yaakov, unlike your original treatises and theories on addiction, the 12 step groups have over years and years been proven on the record to be the single most successful system at beating addiction with the longest sustained recovery periods. So the question becomes why would anyone who is serious about recovery, rule out what has been proven over the years and instead chart his own course?

Yes, tirutzim and excuses, there are plenty. But real reasons there are very few. I myself was initially against both the steps and the groups. But deep down I was ready to go the distance. The proof is that when someone I trusted and whose judgment I valued told me that I should do it, I did. No ifs, ands or buts. Because I wanted to do whatever it takes. As Guard quotes so beautifully from Rabbi Twersky, if someone ch"v has cancer what will they not do to save themselves?

So, you ask me why I am not afraid that I will ch"v succumb to the addiction? There are two reasons. Firstly, I deliberately made a very public commitment to never regress again, and I deliberately made a masssive investment to fighting my addiction. More than once I have had the opportunity to be nichshal and so far, Bechasdei Hashem, every time  I had the opportunity and there were quite a few, each time I have instantly dismissed the thought of being nischshol out of fear of ruining everything. So, at least I know that the path I have taken is Bechasdei Hashem so far working even in moments of nisoyon. Secondly, I know that come what may I am ready to do whatever it takes to beat this addiction. I am already taking massive action and I don't have any inner guilt for setting up artificial pre-conditions of what I will never do. Because I will do anything. So, while I am not over-confident, I am no different than any hopeful baal teshuva and I certainly have to be extremely vigilant, but at least I know that I am doing what I believe to be a full hishtadlus and if there is more to be done I am ready to do it. I know that nothing I write on these forums is serving as an excuse for not doing more.

So, I ask you again, if you are truly afraid and not just saying the words about fear to be yotzei, why do you not honestly at least consider the possibility that maybe you are short-changing your teshuva out of fear to change the status quo? Maybe you would do much better if in addition to your own path of recovery you were open to outside advice. I had deeply and strongly held views and yet I was very open to doing anything that would help.

You asked why I am so sure of myself if I only have 40-something days of sobriety. Yaakov, I am not sure of myself, I am at least sure that I am using a proven method.

You are using a method that leads you into unknown territory, not so much because of what it includes but far more importantly because of what it excludes.

Yaakov, you do not even need to choose between either committing to joining the groups now or ruling them out forever. All it takes to improve is a little more openness, a little more readiness to consider joining the groups when the time is right. That's not even my advice, it's Guard's advice. You would listen to Guard for almost everything else, listen to him for this too...

dearest ykv, we are listening to you. i am like a peanut compared to your madrega.the fact that you wanted to die because your addiction was taking you away from holiness is absolutely amazing, awe inspiring.it's like the stories they tell in the gemara.i feel connected to you - we are all part of one big neshama that's called klal yisrael.but you MUST seek treatment.klal yisrael needs people like you, your family needs you, and WE need you! you are a true tzadik that heppens to have a sickness.this sickness must be treated.and it IS treatable.there are people that can help you - it's just a matter of finding them.so have patience, keep posting, and i wish you the best. freilechen purim.

guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

I also had tears in my eyes. I read this letter from time to time to remind myself what I was and what I am now.  It is amazing what a person can accomplish when he believes himself.  Just remember, Hashem gives us our neshama back every day, even though the neshama does not want to be here. BUt Hashem belives in us that we can fix our ways.  If Hashem beleives in us, we can believe in ourselves.

guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

I never denied or negated this.  In fact, the purpose of my letter to that therapist (I left out the end) was to ask him for therapists in Israel who can work on this problem.  There were always practical concerns that stopped me from pursuing it.  Couple that with the fact that since that letter was written, my resolve to win has gotten even stronger.  And of course I feel cured.  It is very hard to talk to talk to a therapist about a problem I am not experiencing.  I, also never had much luck with them.  We had to go to many for one of my children, who believe it or not has self control issues as well in terms of annoying and hurting people.  (I recently made a 12 step program for him, and we work on it together.  I explained to him the idea of the yezter hara, and how we are supposed to fight him.  I always worked on external factors and I realized the time has come for him to begin internal change.)  To find a therapist who is wiling to truly understand the situation is unique.  Though, I have made use of the hotline with R' Shochet.  He is the first person I actually spoke to since that therapist in NYC. I do hope to call him more. 

guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

Many lone battles have been fought and lost over those years.  My life went back to normal.  My wife only asked from time to time.  But it wasn't until a little over a year ago that my struggle began to get easier.  This is when I began davening with fervor.  When I stopped daveing, I fell.  It was not until after Pesach that I picked myself up and went six months.


guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

Not much.   I was greatly discourages by his apathy.  I was after all a post client.  I thought that my case deserved more then one sentence.  But the letter itself was nonetheless a turning point for me.  IT was the first time that I wrote my emotions and my story out.  It was the first time I saw a reflection of myself.  I began to understand who I am.  From that point forward I had greater resolve to fight.  And it was about eight-nine months later that I lead my six month hiatus. 

guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

Nope.  But we still spoke about it.  It was extremely helpful for me to able to talk about it with her.  She even asked me from time to time if I am going to porn.  I of course denied it.  Over the years she began to realize that it is in fact an addiction.  She helps me out a lot.  She tries to protect me by reminding me not to go to certain places.  I talk to her about my desires and how I do not like them.  We are very open, and she understands me that much more because she had a glimpse into my world of addiction.  I am able to describe myself to her without her realizing tha I am talking the present.  And B"H we have such a loving relationship.  I am especially emotional.  I began to realize the more I work on true loving relationship, the addiction does subside.  A person begins to feel real. And real I feel.  My inner emotions to marital relations has greatly changed in the past year.  This always was an area of my life that I never truly addressed.  This is a lifetime effort. To raise kedusha in these areas.  For the fist time in my life I began to realize the power of giving as opposed to taking. And when I say realized I do not mean the first time I heard about it.  I mean the first time I began truly experiencing that joy.  You cannot understand anything life unless you experienced it.  My positive love increased.  I found myself being much more sympathetic and helpful to my wife.  I began to realize what it means to show love.  I began to realize that shalom bayis is eternal.  There are no limits to growth.  When my addiction was up, love was down. When love is up, addiction is down.  I wish not to elaborate in this point any longer. perhaps some other time.

guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

Well, like I said I went six months. Yom Kippur was indeed very happy for me.  I was completely cured.  When I fell, I was in total denial that I really fell.  It was a big shocker. I worked so hard to pull myself up. I did not where to turn.  I was ready to search out therapists.  As now I realized the great danger. I began to admit to myself that I am powerless to this terrible addiction. But I did not know what to do.  My great resolve came from two sources.  Firstly, a series of shovavim shiurim on inyanei kedusha.  After that, I felt cured again but went back to the Y"H anyways.  I began to realize that I am not believing in myself.  I do not want to elaborate on all my emotions as I might not say them correctly.  But the point is that the shiurim gave me inner strength and confidence.   The second one, which is even greater, is this site.  The site gave me tools that I never had before.  It was the first time someone explained to me how to apply the words of chazal to porn addiction.  Chazal are b'kitzur as to how to exactly go about it.  And this site gave me an exact formula.  It encouraged me to step out more.  And within a week, I was back to where I was before Yom Kippur.  But from the time that I fell until I picked myself up (less than three months) I never went more than 2-3 days without doing full teshuva.  I was indeed a very intense few months.  Until suddenly I realized this is so silly.  Just stop doing it.  And I did.

I remained positive at all times.  I stopped looking down at my own self.  I continued to see myself in a positive light, a man with great potential.  I am involved in giving shiurim, and I continued to do so.  On the outside I acted as my true self.  I reminded myself that I am not tricking anyone.  I am tricking myself by acting a the way I did in private.  THe true me is what I do on the outside.  And I had to take the private me (both physically and emotionally) and turn it into the true me.  The proper environment brings out the true essence.  I could not tap into the true me in private.  When I started the journey over again, I felt myself again.  This is the true me. I know the true me.  My learning sky rocketed.  I have written up some amazing sugyas in complete clarity in some of the most complex topics.  When I felt my clarity come back, I felt Hashem with me at all times.
I am truly honored when Hashem send his signs of approval to me.  This gave me greater resolve to take everything above and beyond.

guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

I do not know.  Isn't that scary?  Now you see why I am so scared.  I know myself all too well.  I spoke to R' Shochet about this concern.  To even think that before a few years my brain is rewired is unrealistic. And even at that point, who knows?  The only thing that can prevent me from falling is continual internal growth.  It means to constantly train the beast.  It means to constantly guard the beat within.  I need to be extremely careful where I go.  I need real fences. And I have put them up. I took upon myself new chumrahs in inyanei kedusha and tzinuis.  I cling to Hashem more than I did in the past.  I internalize the torah much more.  I have begun working on my middos in general.  I have stated many times that each fall brought new kedusha and new chachma within me.  These last few weeks are really the first time in my life that I began working on controlling 'Kosher thoughts'. I, B"H, bli eyin hara rarely get any sort of erection anymore.  My life took a major upward swing.  This is more awesome than any other time in my life.  My emotional excitement died down in the past week but my rational resolve continues.  We need to remember, always be on guard. 

The fact that I went six months proved to me that it can be done.  The battle was not hard at all.  Which is why I was so happy.  We all the know the famous gemara in succah that Hashem will show the Y"H to Rasha and it is but a minuscule hair thread. Those people had to wait to the future days to see it, I saw it in my life time.  I saw how little he really is.  It is in fact nothing.  But, we forget this.   The day that I decided no more, He stopped coming.  I had not once out of difficulty. No urges.  No temptations. NO arousal.  It is amazing what determination coupled with Hashem's help can do. He was nothing more than a mere silly habit.  Now, I can focus on building myself. But I continue talking to myself and to Hashem. Keep your eye on the ball at all times. 

guardureyes wrote on 06 Mar 2009 08:05:

Why do you think I post so much.  I have a need for expression.  I have so much in me.  I have no one to tell my feelings to.  I am a man of emotion based on rational thought.  I have a burning need for ruchniyus.  When I cry I am happy.  I truly yearn for Hashem.  I need for people to understand me to and to relate to me.  I know that my clinging to this site is my savior.  It is this site that helped me focus so much.  And every time that I kick myself for spending too much time on it, I know that if my soul needs it, feed it.  And if I can inspire others through my difficult battle, even better.  I love this site. I love you.  I love my readers.  This is an amazing thing we are doing. 

And for everyone reading this, do not underestimate the power of expression.  On this site you can grow at your own pace, mark your progress and we will all be inspired. But do not bottle your emotions inside you. Please share. 

guardureyes wrote on 05 Mar 2009 23:33:

Scare has not worked for me. I have been scared to my wits.  and to add to that, there have been a few times that I thought that my wife caught me again and was waiting for her to confront me.  Was I scared? yes.  But, when a man lacks control, nothing but nothing can stop him.

This is the ultimate scare.  We should be scared by the fact that indeed we are totally powerless to the Y"H of arayos.  If a person feeds it and does not begin to internally work on it, it will brew inside and take over.  The important point is internalizing the words of our Rabbis and not just believe them.  We must feel them.  We must understand them.  Dealing with the core of the mensch is a difficult thing, but crucial.  Every day of my life I sort out the most minute feelings of sexual desires.  We do not even notice them.  I, B"H, have no urges.  But I know that my inner self desires it.  This is a reality.  And I continue to address it. The Gemara in kiddushin (81a) makes it quite clear that man is powerless to this Y"H.  

We need to address the idea of not only self control but changing our perspectives on life and changing our inner self.  The Gra writes in Mishei, if a person does not work to change himself, then what purpose is there for his life. A person, like myself who feels they lack no conscious desire for porn or any illegitimate desire, which includes being aroused by any woman around, needs to go further.  He needs to move on to working on the areas of life that are permissible.  He needs to address his own desire for his wife.  This is indeed a deep and fundamental work of life.  But this is internal change.  The natural self will be pained if his wife pushes off even one night, let alone a week of having relations.  This is a comforting fact that has already been documented by the Rambam's son.  So what do you do about it?  Sit back and get frustrated?  get angry with your wife?  Get angry at the world?  Go get porn?  A person needs to address his emotions.  Why do I feel this way?  A person needs to have self control of the mind.  This is a difficult part of avodas hashem.  But it is crucial for changing the inner self.  It takes time and effort. And there is no end to this growth.  

Chazal say that a nazir is a sinner for paining himself by abstaining from wine.  But the Mefarshim tell us that chazal do not mean to negate the purity of the nazir. Rather, a person can only be a nazir if he is ready for it.  Being Ready for it means that he indeed feels no pain from abstinence.  A person has to know themselves and where they are holding.  A person has to be honest with themselves.  However, at whatever madreiga a person is at, he needs to strive for better.  The Rabeinu Yona elaborates on the idea of the nazir by explaining that the the Torah is teaching us how to grow.  Growth comes through changing the inside.  A person should strive, he writes, to be the nazir, but needs to know if he is ready.  And if not, then get yourself ready.   This concept is a popular idea when discussing perishus in general.  The baalei mussar are always quick to point out that the main purpose of perishus is working on the inner self.  It is for this reason, one will find comments from as far back as the Rambam's son regarding the problem with fasting and inflicting pain on oneself for avodas hashem.  They write this is wrong as it weakens the body and those people are not ready for it.  A person who fasts can be a sinner.  The reason being is because the inner self is not ready and theyt are paining the body.

A person without addiction that does not work on his inner self has simply not reached his potential.  But a post-addict who fails to do so, fails do accomplish his main mission in life and risks falling back.  The power of habit and comfort that porn offers to man is too strong to those who have been there. If a person does not address his inner self and work ti uproot it and rewire then when the moment of truth arrives (it should never arrive), a person's temptations will drag him down.  He may have the resolve on the first few accounts to fight it.  But as the tests increase and his desire now increases, he loses the strength and resolve to fight another battle.  He surrenders before he starts.

So we should be scared.  We should be scared of ourselves and what we can do if not properly guarded and trained.  Our human spirit is a wild beast.  If we do not address the dangerous potential that lurks within, we are doomed to be overtaken by the monstrous beast.  We must not let our fear ppush us to surrender, because there is no backing away, that is called suicide (been there already).  We must approach the beast and learn to to train him.  By realizing the potential danger that he has, and realizing the only true road to survival with this beast is through training and guarding we are then empowered to change him forever. We daven to Hashem all the time to help us on this mission of life.

When we learn to do that, are neshama can ride high with stride and shine forth to the world.  We can then be zoche to be like Mordachai Hazaddik riding high on the horse in victory with none other than the ultimate evil leading the way against his every will.  The tzaddik sits back comfortably,  all is in control and it is the Y"H that leads the way to good. The Tzaddik no longer has to control the Y"H.  The Y"H has no choice.   [this last paragraph is based on the Rama in the mechir Yayin, his kabalistic allegorical explanation to megillas ester]

We should all be zoche to a true purim sameach where our rabbis teach in the medresh that purim is teshuva from love which has the capability of turning evil into good.

Wow, I had tears in my eyes reading this letter. It is so typical of addiction. The internal contradictions are simply unbearable. We can't understand ourselves. We want to die.
I get letters like these all the time. And for an addiction as strong as this, with these recurring cycles, I would have definitely suggest the 12-Step LIVE groups. Definitely.

But now I am really curious. What happened SINCE 2001? What did your therapist answer to this letter? What happened with your wife, did you never admit the full truth? It seems that until 25 days ago you were still entrenched in the cycle of addiction. Where did you get your recent resolve? And how do you indeed know it is not just ANOTHER cycle like you've had in the past?

Although, there is one big difference. Now that you've found us, there's no turning back until you are FULLY cured, and I mean it. Yaakov, you have my word. Don't drop us and we'll never drop you. No matter what happens, we are in this together till the end. You, me, Boruch, and all of us here. We will grab you by your hands and DRAG you with us  if we have to (which I doubt) until you can announce final, and complete victory with Hashem's help!

Well, she actually caught me twice.  The first time I made up a whole story and she believed it.  The second time, there was no denying it.  She approached me very calmly and lovingly and asked me what is going on. I will describe her emotions in a letter I wrote to my therapist in summer 2007.  But at that moment I ran to the kitchen and pulled a knife out on myself.  She took the knife away and told me I am being silly.  We spoke for a while and I told her that I used to have this problem in H.S. but have been cured since and this is a relapse.  I tried explaining her that this has nothing to do with her.  To impress upon her my sincerity with my fight (and I was always willing to pick myself up and not give up hope), I showed her letters which I wrote to myself.  I told her that I wrote these letters in H.S., when in fact I wrote them a week earlier.  She did not know what to say.  She was very confused about me.  Years later she would ask me about my issues.  There was one letter that always sat on top of my shaarei teshuvah which continues to be a constant reminder.  It is still there till today. 
It was my idea to go to therapy.  We went to a well known therapist.  This was in summer 2001.  I will describe that therapy shortly.  Well, six years later, summer 2006, I was in desperation, I thought I was the only one in the world with this problem, I wrote to this therapist and ask him for advice.

Below is an excerpt of the letter

My wife and I had come to your office six years ago telling you about this problem.  This was after being "caught" twice.  First time was with a bunch of magazines.  I made up a whole story and she believed me.  The second time was when I forgot to close my computer and she found inappropriate material on my screen.  That is when she confronted me and made me admit.  My wife was very supportive and understanding, albeit with a sense of resentment, betrayal and above all total confusion of what I am.  That is when I phoned you. 
Unfortunately, we didn't get too far with you and so we stopped going.  This was not due to your lack of skills and understanding of the problem.  On the contrary, I felt very comfortable with you and thought you could be very helpful.  The main problem was twofold.  Firstly, there was lack of direction and goal on our part.   We were faced with a dual problem that was intertwined.  I had my personal problem that needed to be addressed irrelevant of a marriage.  Then we had the new marital problem.  So when we went to you were not so focused.  We were very bewildered.  The second problem was that I couldn't fully express myself with my wife there.  I had lied to you in front of her about the extent of the problem.  I had told you that while this was an old problem, I had been "cured" from it for five years.  And this incident of being "caught" was a revival of an old skeleton.  However, the shameful truth is that I had suffered from this problem since I was 12 years old, and really began at age 10 (I am now 29).  It got extremely intense when I was 14. It has not simmered down but only gotten worse over the years.   So when I went to you, we were married for three years.  I had been doing inappropriate behavior behind her back all those years.  I could not admit it to you and her and the spot.  So obviously, the problem is going to be hard to deal with when you are not informed of the true problem that I was dealing with at the present.
There was another issue.  After being "caught" and sitting with you I felt internally cured.  I could never imagine doing this behavior again.  It was far from my mind and desires.  This is the honest truth.  And so I felt we accomplished what we needed.  In terms of my relationship with my wife, we basically spoke it out and she respected me again.  You had helped a lot in that regard.  You had explained to her how this has nothing to do with her and not rooted in rejection.  You emphasized that it was a personal problem that I was suffering from.  She understood that I could fall into the same trap again and made me promise that if I feel this problem I should speak to her.  So I went six weeks cold turkey.  That's a long time for me.  I felt great.  No urges.  I was cured.  My marriage is intact and my personal self is intact.  What could be better?  Well, one Sunday morning my wife was out of the house. I was home with my two year old.  And I got this urge, told my son to play in his room and went I right back to this behavior. 
Six years later now and things have only gotten worse.  Though, now I became smart.  I keep things confidential.  I clean up my tracks.  Once in a while, my wife gets a bit suspicious. Not enough to confront me.  Now don't think that I haven't tried working on this problem.  I have been trying very hard with myself.  For a while I did a little reward system with myself.  That worked for four weeks.  During those four weeks, I was "cured". I had no internal urges.  I had gotten filters over the years.  But that doesn't really help.  Even the best ones don't filter everything. I always manage to found things.
Externally, I am living a very nice life.  We now live in Israel with four children.  I learn gemara during the day.  My nights are spent making a parnassa.  I am very happy with what I do and feel very satisfied.  Torah learning is the focus of my life.  My spare moments are spent with the Gemara.  I am diligent about it and I truly love it.  Not to brag, but I consider myself one of the more advanced in my chabura.  People consider me a talmid chacham.  For some people I live that perfect balance between making a parnassa and torah learning.  Where Torah learning is my focus and parnassa is a means to the ends.  I tell you this to paint this very awkward picture for you.
Internally, I am a broken man. I am under constant Depression.  I am really a failure to society.  I fool the world.   I represent spirituality to many people.  But inside I am of the most corrupt of beings that walk this earth.   I am shining on the outside and dirty on the inside.  I am confused about my own self.  I sometimes wonder if I have demons inside of me.  I feel like Jekyll and Hyde.  I am two people in one.  I can walk from complex torah discussion in the laws of korbonos to my computer screen indulging myself of the worst pleasures known to mankind.  I am sincere in my leaning, but I have some other part of me.  I am not faking it.  I could be in engaging in bad behavior and receive a call from a friend about a complex sugya. [My siyata D'Shmaya in learning is taken away from me at those times, and I am unable to converse with clarity.  I will often have to daven very hard and promise never to do it again to regain the siyata d'shmaya.] I am a hidden man to my family.  I am living a lie to my wife.  I feel horrible with myself.  I fill my wonderful head with junk.  I am crying inside.  I have contaminated the vessels that hold my spirituality.   Every year I hope for a yom kippur, where I will do a true vidui to Hashem for my PAST aveiros.  But comes Yom Kippur, I am still holding on to them.  I tell Hashem on Yom Kippur that I am finished.  But a few days later, I usually get back into it.  I have contemplated suicide since I was 16. Though, in the past 5 years, not so much.  During my first year of marriage I would stand for long amounts of time at the top of a very tall building, ready to jump.   I just asked Hashem to take my life.  I can't bare this anymore.  I will get on a bus, and daven to Hashem for there to be an accident and I will get killed.  I will first cast away by problems, do teshuva and vidui.  This way I can die with teshuva.  I know this is not the way to think, but my mind thinks this way.  (I also saw this concept brought down in a very poular chasidus sefer.)  I want you to know the severity of this situation and how much I suffer.   
    This problem I experience comes in the way of my life, let alone the moral corruption it creates in me.  I will spend three hours on this instead of getting a project done.  I do not understand myself.  Why do I do that?  Why can't I just focus on what needs to be done.  I don't even feel good about it.  My wife thinks I am working to make money for the family when in fact I am destroying the fabrics and foundations of our home.  When I was working full time in the states, I would leave my office for an hour to go to the immoral parts of NYC and indulge myself.  This was during working hours.  Meaning, I risked losing my job just to excite myself.  This is classic for me.  I forget about life to indulge myself.  A clear sign of addiction.  I am clearly not healthy and not in control of myself.  Though, I am a very rational person. 
   About a year ago, I started to see the new buzz word "internet addiction".  I saw it all over the web.  That is when I began to relate to my own problem as an addiction.  I felt comforted and scared at the same time.  I realized that I can no longer deal with this on my own but I need professional advice.  But how can I do that? That means admitting to wife that for 9 years of marriage I have lied and "cheated" on her.  I truly believe that this is not a good idea.  I may cause her irreparable damage.  And certainly our marriage and children will suffer too greatly.  So on my spare time I read up on addiction and began working with the problem on my own.  Once again, I felt great.  I destroyed my yetzer hara.  It was like throwing him into the furnace. B'H, I was cured and will now become society's biggest hero.  I am the man who fought his inclinations.   Well, needless to say, this problem came right back.  A sleeping spirit was awakened in me one day. 
    [By the way this is a general cycle in my life.  I go through these spurts of optimism and prevail.  This has been going on since I was 16 years old.  I would fight with myself.  Believe I won, and fall to the lowest.  Get depressed. satisfied with low state.  Find courage to get up and fall again.  I have still not given up on myself.  I draw upon the classical works of R' Yonah and chovos halevovos for guidance in my fight.  The longest I have gone was six months when I was a bachur in Yeshiva 11 years ago.   I became the a big masmid in my yeshiva.  I was full of energy and chidushim.  The end of the zman, I fell prey to my reawakened urges.  I found a magazine shop, violated one of the worst aveiros to mankind.  I became withdrawn and depressed.  Nobody could figure out what happened to me.  My friends thought that I was suffering from burnout.  Today, my wife gets confused with me.  Why do I get down sometimes and all of a sudden lose all my energy.  When I am doing well, I have so much energy I feel like I could conquer the world.  I have some chapters in tehillim that I say to help me.  I ask Hashem for divine assistance.  I have developed a very weird relationship with Hashem.]

eme wrote on 26 Jan 2009 18:31:

I was caught once, eight years ago.  I attempted a suicide on the spot.  My wife stopped me.  We went to therapy, and life went back to normal.  many weeks later I fell back into sin again.  Yes, indeed the fear of getting caught is scary and a great deterrent.  But an addiction is an addiction.  All external factors for motivation have their limitations. A persona begins rationalizing that he will not get caught. 

Boruch, I prefer not to debate you.  I spend most of my day debating people, but when it comes to avodas hashem, I stay far away from debate.  The wrong things come out of people's words in these moments and it is not worth it.



Listen, if you prefer not to daven for this then don't.  But do not spoil my avodas hashem becasue you do not like to daven to be saved in a nisayon. If you have another formula for davening, please share it.  But this is the formula of the davening presented in kiddushin.  Again, I am not debating.  If you have your understanding of avodas hashem, go ahead.  But I do not understand why I cannot daven for this?  And I do not understand how the 12-steps is a contradiction to davening.  They are two separate points.  

If your point is the fear, well, I do believe a person should be on guard and concerned at all moments.  He should realize the potential danger lurking inside.  So, if the 12 steps has brought you up to NO FEAR, kol hakavod to you. But, on the other hand, you have not even reached 90 days, why are you so sure about yourself?  I do not mean to cast a spell on you, I am just wondering what your thinking is?  IF you believe the 12 steps empowered you enough for any nisayon, that you for sure have the strength to pull away [do not forget כחי ועצם ידי] without Hashem's help, I do not know what to say.  I put all my trust in Hashem. I believe it is he can save me.  Look at the Gemara in kiddushih, where great tannayim(Rabbi Meir, Rabbi Akiva) were saved from the Y"H of arayos only because Hashem pulled the Y"H out from them at the last moment.  He did not allow the Y"H to remain within them. The Torah saved them. But not because they were strong enough on their own to run to the beis medresh. On the contrary, they ran after the lady. Now, I do not know if the Gemara is to be taken literally, but the message is clear.  The Gemara at the end of the first perek(daf 40) brings a story of three great Rabbis who were willing to do anything to save them selves including jumping off a roof and jumping in a fire. That takes great strength.  Where did they get that strength from?  From Hashem.  The Gemara comments on daf 81 about these indivduals that they are quite unique.  And even Rav himself was not sure if he would have the strength.  Take a look at Rav Yaakov Emden's auto-biography where he describes his own nisayon with the Y"H of zenus.  He comments about himself that his nisayon was greater than Yosef Hatzaddik's.  Basically, his niece seduced him.  And he was tempted. He was proud of himself for standing the test.  But he discusses the great struggle.  Now, I daven I should never have any nisayon.  And if I do, I should have the strength like all the above great Rabbanim to be saved.  This requires siyata d'shmaya. But, obviously, a person needs to be willing to fight at shaas maaseh. With a Hashem's help he can be saved and can have the determination and strength to pick himself up and do what he needs to do. But he also needs zechus Torah to be saved.

So I cannot seem to figure out where we disagree.  I doubt you disagree that it takes strength and determination to fight the Y"H.  You know it is not easy.  You also know that just because a person went six months and without urges and test, it is possible he will be tested again.  To say impossible is not true.  And you know that it when that test comes again, it will require some strength to stop himself.  If not, well ,that is not a test.  And even to take oneself to the beis medresh requires strength.  And you know that the ultimate strength comes from Hashem, through a real determination from the person.  And you know that through tefilla you can connect to Hashem. And you know that it is important to daven to Hashem for the Y"H.  So where are disagreeing?



I cannot seem to follow most of what you are talking about.  Perhaps you do not understand me.  I do not seem to disagree with most of your words.  The idea of the first three steps has been a very fundamental cornerstone in my work.  As I stated, I used the 12 steps for personal growth. It continues to have a major impact on my life and approach.  I have stated that from the start on my posts.  Did I ever negate the concept of the 12 steps..  Did I ever say that it is not worthy approach?  And what do you think those steps tell us?  To put our wills and lives over to Hashem.  How do you do that?  Talk ti him. Daven to Him. This comes clearer when you get to step 9.  (I do not know which step you are holding on). "We fervently prayed to forge a constant, joyous connection to G-d, and spoke to him out loud, on a regular basis as a man speaks to a friend, admitting our weaknesses and fears, and asking for His help in all of our doings, placing special importance on the recital of Tehillim" .  This stage was an intense stage for me.  And I continue.  



I cannot seem to understand what you are referring to.  What precisely about what I am doing is against the Rambam and chazal?  Did I do something that they say not to do?  Precisely, which Rambam and which chazal are you referring to?  As I sift through your word I cannot discern a difference in your words and mine except the fact that you seem to negate fearing sin and davening to be saved in times of a nisayon, neither of which I can find a chazal on.  So please quote it. In fact, I recall the opposite is true.   Is it the fact that chazal talk about doing the 12 steps in a group setting.  And if a person does not he is violating an aveira (I do not recall such a chazal).  Please clarify.  Is it the fact that I like to introspect to understand myself and the Y"H?  Read the chovos halevovos, shaar yichud hamaaseh, where he elaborates on the Y"H, and how important it is to understand.  This has also been a fundamental point that Rav Yisroel Salanter spoke about.  A person needs to get in touch with himself.  Undertsand the subtleties of anger and gaava, and taava within.  

Perhaps, for clarity sake, can you share with us what your struggles have been since you have been clean.  I am getting this feeling that the nature of your addiction is different than mine.  

Last point:Avodas Hashem is complex in nature.  There are many components.  There are different approaches to different issues that are relevant at different times.  One cannot simply take a line from Gemara and a line of Rabeinu Yona there and say he understands it.  If you read Mishei, one of the basic themes is the concept of understanding. You find there the idea of understanding what Yiras Shamayim means.  Understanding avodas hashem is itself an avodah.  And every person will apply it differently and will understand it differently. As we grow, we understand more. (see chovos halevoso shaar avodash elokim) A person has to have the goals set straight based on the classic works. The precise way how he fights the Y"H might be different for different people.  It may change based on the generation.  There are core principles to focus on, but the details can change.  The famous sefer, cheshbon HaNefesh, which Rav Yisroel Salanter encouraged to be printed again, makes this concept clear at the beginning of his sefer.  He writes that in the olden days people had great Yiras Shamayim and it was easy to prevent themselves from aveirs, but in our days we need a new approach. And he presents his approach, which I base a lot of what I do on.  It is perfect for an ADHDer.
He himself ends the sefer with the fight with zenus.  And this is what he says:
לפיכך צריך להדבק' ולבחבר בחסד השם יתברך לבא לטהר,בכדי לעצר כח להתמיד את המלחמה בכל מיני תחבולות הנ"ל כאחת בלי רפיון.  ויהא לבו נכון ובטוח שמקץ איזו שנים מועטות יזכה להעלות ארוכה למלחלתו לברכו ולהיטיב אחריתו
I am not good at translating (maybe guard can do that), but he makes it clear that a person will have to fight and he needs Hashem Help, and he should cling to Hashem for that help.  In the previous paragraphs he mentions what chazal say about going to ythe besi medresh as being the best advice but points out that it takes determination and not everyone can persist.
He ends of by saying that a person can indeed rewire his brain, but it will takes a few years.  But a person should have bitachon that Hashem will rewire his brain.

Lets all be zoche to fight and destroy our Y"H, each in his own way, and come to teshuva shleima.

boruch wrote on 04 Mar 2009 22:41:

Boruch, you missed the point greatly. The key element here is davening.  This is a basic 12-step principle known as let go and let G-d.  A person needs to constantly daven to Hashem to protect himself from Y"H.  He must believe that only Hashem can save him.  And believe me when I say that the 12 steps cannot help without tefilla.  This is well known from kidushin and succah, that without Hashem's help, a person cannot conquer his Y"H.  As you say, that is coupled with the fact that a person is sunken in Torah, which B"H I spend the greater part of my day doing(13 hours).  But he needs both things.  He needs to be sunken in Torah. But a person needs to constantly daven to be protected.  The Gemara at the end of kiddushin (81a, a few lines down from where they get wide) tells a series of five stories dealing with man's fight with the Y"H.  The gemara makes it clear that a person is completely powerless to the Y"H without Hashem's help.  And the Gemara goes on to say that a person must daven for it.  I advice you to go through each story carefully.  We know this concept from our own davening.  We mention all the time in our davening that we should be saved from the Y"H.  And I can tell you that I say this with tears.  I have no urges.  And I have had none for a month now.  But I also know that I went six month completely clean.  I barely had urges all that time.  And I mean it.  And suddenly I was attacked.  Now I introspected to figure out what went wrong.  I posted my finds in another area of this site.  Guard included it as a chizzuk email today.  One thing I realized that I stopped doing, was daveing.  I felt cured and I thought the problem was finished and I go back to life.  There were other issues, but amongst them was davening.  So I now continue to daven. 

Now what do you daven for? So, I said "I daven that I should never have urges to act out and if I do, I should have the strength to fight them." Now I believe this is an appropriate formula.  Do you disagree?  Boruch, What do you daven for?  How do you daven.  Do you say the Pasuk from zecharia? When a person gets struck with the Y"H, at that moment he needs willpower to overcome it. At the moment of truth you do do not have 12-steps with you.  No one is watching.  You are all alone.  Yes, you can get up and learn Torah.  But that takes willpower.  You can get up and yell at your Y"H.  But that takes willpower. As a 16 year old I knew this. And every time I would fall, I would cry why hadn't I gone to the beis medresh to save myself.  But the answer is strength.  I had none.  Where does a person derive his strength? From Hashem.  We daven to Hashem that if Chas V'Shalom we are tested, we should have the strength to fight the Y"H.  It is for no small reason that our Rabbis call us a person a Gibor that fights his Y"H.  It is strength.  But he gets that from Hashem.  I doubt that you disagree with any I say which is why I was surprised that you commented on my tefilla.  Nothing you said addressed that issue. Now it could be that you are at a different stage then I am and therefore you are focusing on different issues in your tefilla.  It could be that your addiction is different than mine and therefore could not relate to my small tefilla.  I don't know.  [But you need to be careful when you attack someone's avodas Hashem.  I have built for myself a tailor made day that is based on sifrei mussar, pasukim, and gedolim that fits my personality,struggles and schedule.  I put a lot of thought into what I do.  perhaps, next time you disagree with someone's approach to avodas Hashem you should try to gain insight rather than attack. ]

Now, obviously, like everything in life, a person must come up with strategies how to fight his Y"H.  But the strategies depend on where you are holding.  I sense that you are still at a level that you constantly get tested.  You seem to have urges and need to know how to deal with this.  I do not know.  For you, the 12 steps might be a wonderful thing.  But that does not mean that everyone on this forum necessarily needs  it the same way you do.  Yes, I see the advantage of it. In fact, I did it myself.  And I continue to do it. I do not do it in a group.  I do it all alone.  I spend a large portion of my day in teshuva, introspection, and tefilla.  I go through each step carefully.  I prefer not to go into detail as to what I do.  The main thing is focusing on yourself and getting in touch and changing your inner self, which is indeed possible.  I have changed greatly in the past years.  My struggled continued, but I gained great insight into myself and others and learned to work and change myself.  My urges have diminished greatly where I finally came to a point where I went six months with no urges, except once.  And that one time I fought my Y"H.  I described how earlier on this post.  For you, the 12 steps in a group setting is helping you learn yourself.  I think that is great.  Kol Hakavod to you.  But as you describe what the 12 steps gave you, shows that the focus for you was getting in touch with yourself and your desires.  You learned not only the concept that one must mevatel the ratzon to Hashem but you finally learned what that means and how to do it.  And this is a valuable tool for life.  And is the key for all inyanei kedusha and perishus.  I wish you success with your growth. You took a first major step. You seemed to have begun changing yourself.  As you pointed out many times, understanding all the mussar is not enough.  One must internalize it.  But that does mean one cannot get there without your group. I discuss mussar topics all the time with a group of friends to undertsand avodas Hashem. I am, B"H, exposed to many chasuva people.  I attend vaadim, etc.     

boruch wrote on 04 Mar 2009 22:41:

This, I believe, is a fundamental point in ones growth.  I, of course, never said anything to the contrary.  As I explained above, I was addressing the tefilla aspect and that is it.  I was not discussing an emotional willpower to overcome the Y"H.  However, the funny thing is, is that I was going to discuss this topic at greater length on my post tonight, but instead I ended addressing your post.  Well, maybe, at a later point I will elaborate on this topic. For now, I need to to get back to my work. 

guardureyes wrote on 04 Mar 2009 22:51:


Guard, the way I understand what is happening to me this is not even a question of chochmo bagoyim, because in reality how to fight the yetzer hora is Torah and Torah bagoyim al taamin. The way I understand this is that Ho'Elokim boro es ho'odom yoshor, Hashem created all humans, not just Yidden but einom yehudim too, with an inner sense of morality. Most of the time, human ego and negative attitudes get in the way and even we frum yidden lose that inner yashrus and moral compass, kal vochomer goyim. But when a person, any person, yid or goy, is really desparate, when all other options are lost and he turns to Hashem then he can reconnect to the inner yashrus, the inner moral compass.

It seems to me that this is exactly what happened to the people of Alcoholics Anonymous. Their language and ideas are clothed in christianity and so the 12 steps and the entire program seem and in reality are to a certain extent superficially distant from the Eibishter's Torah. As you know that initially bothered me immensely.

Additionally, in my opinion, they do a very poor job of explaining the program to the intelligent and thinking newcomer who does not see himself as entirely lost. They just tell you to work the steps and not philosophize them. Somewhere they have a point but they also make a big mistake.

The Steipler Gaon Zt"l was once approached by someone who was having great trouble being mekarev a yid to put on tefillin. The Steipler asked the mekarev how he was trying to achieve his goal of getting the Yid to put on tefillin. The mekarev explained that the yid had said he first wanted to learn about tefillin and then when he understood the mitzvo he would start putting them on. The Steipler asked what wasn't working and the mekarev explained that they had been learning about tefillin for a very long time, but the more they learned the more she'eylos and kashyos the yid had about tefillin and at this rate he would never get to the mitzva. The Steipler advised the mekarev to try a different strategy and come back to him. He should tell the yid that they needed to continue learning about tefillin until all of his questions are answered but in the meantime he should start putting on tefillin every day because they have learned about them for long enough that it is time he experiences them.

The mekarev returned a week later absolutely amazed. Not only had the yid agreed to put on tefillin, in one week all of his questions were gone and this yid was ready to learn something new. The Steipler explained to the bewildered mekarev that the derech of a person is to justify whatever he is currently doing. So, as long as the yid was not putting on tefillin his natural urge was to explain and justify why he was not wearing tefillin and that was why he was asking all of his questions and no amount of answers satisfied him. As soon as the yid started putting on tefillin he now had to justify why he was wearing tefillin and that was why all of his questions were answered in no time at all,he now wanted to accept them yo justify what he was already doing.

So, the right approach to helping to thinking people understand the steps, is not by telling them, just do the steps. The right answer is, do the steps and as you work them, we'll explain them. This is exactly what happened to me. I decided to do whatever I could of the steps immediately. I decided in advance that I would compromise nothing of the Eibishter's Torah, no spin, no propaganda whatever I did of the steps would be subject to scrutiny, is this what the Eibishter says in his Heilige Torah. So, beginning with the venue, the group that seemed to be the best fit for me was being held in a place where there was a potential she'eylo lefi the remo of avizrayhu da'avodo zoro. Although many are meikil for lesser reasons than fighting addiction such as business etc. although my therapist told me that HoRav Dovid Cohen Shlita was mattir for addiction as well as business and although the tzorech for my Yiddishkeit was very great (vaday avizrahyu d'arayus bemeizid with nothing to be somech on) I decided that I would make no exceptions to the way I usually ask my she'eilos and before my very first meeting I tried for over an hour to reach the Philadelphia Rosh Yeshiva HaGaon HoRav Shmuel Kamenetzky Shlita by phone (I do not know HoRav Shmuel, which is why I ask him these type of she'eilos, because I will not disclose my addiction to any Rov or Odom Godol whom I know).

Well, I was already on my way to the meeting by car (it is an hour trip and so in case I would get permission I had to be on the way) and I was ready to turn back if he told me not to go. Well half way along the trip I finally got through and Horav Shmuel told me that I should go despite the venue and not to be concerned about any potential she'eilo in the circumstances.

Same when it came to step 3 of surrender I would do only what the Torah tells me to do even if it conflicted with the steps. To my amazement, not only was there no intrinsic conflict, thanks to the steps I was able to put what the Torah said into practice for the first time. Why, just last night I woke up in the middle of the night, very, very aroused and after a few moments of getting my bearings, thanks to the steps I knew what to do, I reached out for a pocket electronic device on which I had Shas with Rashi and under the covers (so as not to awake my wife) I learned the first omud and a half of maseches bovo kammo, with Rashi, le'iluy nishmas a recently departed korov of my wife (I had been mekabel to finish maseches bovo kammo in time for the yahrzeit) and I have now decided that mastering Bovo Kammo, first with Rashi and then eventually all the way through tosfos, rishonim, acharonim, Tur, Shulchan Oruch, nosei keilim and ketzos is my permanent seder bl"n for the rest of my life whenever I have a nisoyon. I am now quite confident that I will finish with Rashi, well in time for the yahrzeit and I am looking forward to mastering ketzos in a way that I had previously only dreamed of.

Now of course anyone could say, well ok, boruch was only able to learn in a nisoyon thanks to the 12 steps, but at the very least, now that I have read this post, I will do it without the 12 steps. I have a maaseh for that too.

The Brisker Rov Zt"l had a Gaon of a talmid, HoRav Yosef Liss Zt"l. When, many years ago, a certain most prominent Israeli Rabbi issued a "psak" being mattir a certain case of an issur kohol, and wrote a teshuva explaining his rationale, the Chelkas Yaakov, HaGaon Rav Breisch Zt"l of Switzerland entered into chilufei michtovim with the Israeli Rabbi to persuade him that his teshuva was flawed. The Brisker Rov Zt"l was deeply pained that rather than discourage the Israeli Rabbi, the discussion was only granting him more legitimacy and so he asked HoRav Liss Zt"l who had an excellent pen and was very persuasive to tell teh Chelkas Yaakov to stop. Horav Liss wrote the Chelkas Yaakov of how in a certain shtetl there was once a baal agolo who was a big "grobyan" (hooligan/ruffian) and a big am ho'oretz. He was never to be seen in the Beis Hamedrash. Then one day he turned up in teh Besi Hamedrash agitated and out of breath, of all things demanding the big Rif (in old times the Rif was published separately and as Rav Liss told it, the Volume of Rif in this shtetl's Beis Hamedrash was an ancient volume that was massive and bound in no less than wooden book covers). The talmidim in the Beis Hamedrash were astounded and could not understand what such a hooligan wanted with a Rif but they were curious and so they brought out the massive volume of Rif and gave it to him.

The baal agolo grabbed the Rif and flew out of the Beis Hamedrash, followed by the talmidim, who wanted to see what would happen next. They did not have to wait long. In moments the baal agolo had caught up with the town blacksmith with whom he was in a massive fight and was clobbering the blacksmith on the head with the heavy Rif.

Rav Liss told the Chelkas Yaakov that the Israeli Rabbi knew from the beginning, long before he had even considered the she'eilo that he was going to be mattir. It was muttar and that was all there was to it. So, in that case asked rav Liss, why bother even writing a teshuva? Because, like the baal agolo, the Israeli Rabbi wrote the teshuva which included prominent mention of a shittas horif was intended to use the Rif to clobber his opponents. the Israeli Rabbi was using the Rif to fight the gedolim and talmidei chachomim who were oiser by publicly claiming that he was right and by publicly claiming that kocho deheiteiro odif and the only reason for the oisrim was that they were not as great talmidei chachomim as he and did not know how to understand shittas horif as well as he did.

Rav Liss explained that since the Israeli Rabbi's teshuva was not the real reason for the hetter, it was only a weapon in his fight against the gedolim, there was nothing at all to be gained by discussing the merits of the weapon.

Nachzor le'inyoneinu. Let's get back to us and our addiction. There are two ways to turn to Torah in a time of nisoyon of hirhurei aveiro. The first is the baal agolo's way and it was my way too. I was in a very personal fight with the yetzer hora and I was going to fight it my way. Even if I had used Torah in a time of nisoyon it would have been my way of taking the Torah and clobbering the yetzer hora over the head with it. After all is said and done that is just another way of struggling and fighting the tuma while being immersed at the very same time in tuma. Tovel vesheretz beyodo.

In my opinion I sincerely believe that it is only by joining a 12 step group that we can get the environment to learn to OVERCOME the yetzer hora to struggle with tuma, eizehu gibbor hakovesh es yitzro --- one who has the strength to resist his urge to struggle with tuma and out of STRENGTH he instead surrenders to doing it Hashem's way, he is machnia himself to stop fighting tuma and acepts upon himself to do it the right way, to drop the fight and just follow Hashem's instructions.

Now in case anyone is still reading this hyperfocused post, we can make it real simple by analogy. Imagine someone who was chas vesholom nichshal in visiting a mokom, an entire district of botei zonos. As he does teshuva he becomes more and more outraged by the fact that there is such a terrible place and such terrible people. So he takes upon himself a one-man crusade against zenus by visiting the mokom znus, this district, every night and protesting and harrassing the zonos. Well, most of the time, at least he is successful in not being nichshal himself with the zonos, although he achieves nothing by his protests in terms of preventing anyone else's znus, everyone else just goes about their business as usual, slightly inconvenienced and annoyed. The only thing he does achieve is that at least once in a while despite or perhaps because of  all his righteous indignation and zeal, somehow he is himself nichshal on a semi-regular basis to sleep with the very zonos he believes that he is harrasssing.

What would we advise such a guy? sechor, sechor amrinon lenoziro, lekarmo lo sakriv, go away. Stop being so foolish!!! Stay far away!!!

The same goes for the yetzer hora, stop spending time with him on his territory, get far away. Think you can do this without the 12 steps groups? Do you think that you can serenely learn the Eibishter's Torah while the yetzer hora disturbs you with the most profane temptations? I wish you the best of luck, but it is at very least, much easier said than done. And it is certainly a lot easier to do it a lot more effectively by joining a 12 step group.

guardureyes wrote on 04 Mar 2009 22:51:


Before I do that I'll first collect various posts of mine, edit them and put them on one of my 12 step threads in a format that is easy to implement one piece at a time.

guardureyes wrote on 04 Mar 2009 22:51:


Guard, a big Mazel Tov on your simcha and you should be zocheh legadlo leTorah, Chuppah massim tovim, he should be a true tzaddik, chossid and eved Hashem. You must be tired because this is Yaakov's journal and not Shomer's. Due to scheduling Shomer has chosen another SA group and he will be going alone. He is good to his word and these posts are for Yaakov who has so far not said anything about joining a 12 step group.

Ykv_schwartz wrote on 02 Mar 2009 21:03:


Hatzlocho Yaakov, the problem with fighting the urges is that it is counterproductive, it only increases the stress and pressures that feed the urge. Those who depend on emotional willpower and determination to win will lose as soon as they can no longer maintain the ever increasing emotional strength needed to contain the urge. That's the power of surrender. Not surrender out of weakness, but surrender out of strength and wisdom.

I was taking my addiction personally and it bothered me so much that when the urge struck, all the mussar I knew was out the window, and one way or another, it was almost as if, in my pride, cholilo, I was telling Hashem, "Get out of the way, while I take care of this one".

Then I joined the 12 steps group and as I described here, through working the steps on my nisyonos, I came to realize that the urge to fight and confront the addiction with an all out emotional battle of wills is as damaging as the urge to succumb to the addiction. That is when I understood that the best way to fight the y"h was to be mevatel my rotzon to fight the yetzer hora directly. I realized that I needed to surrender my rotzon to Hashem's rotzon.

As the Rambam says in Hilchos Issurei Biah (21:19) "yasiya libo midivrei havai vehashchoso veyifaneh ledivrei torah", move the mind from empty and destructive thoughts and channel it to words of Torah. Yasiya, yefaneh, that's a smooth process, no struggle at all. So if we do it our way, and it becomes personal and we try and beat the y"h on our own terms we are asking for real trouble.

Thanks to the 12 steps group I joined, I learned to do it Hashem's way, which is that when a nisoyon comes we resist the urge to struggle and we resist the urge to take on the yetzer hora and instead we just immediately, absolutely and effortlessly switch channels to Torah, whether it is the Torah suggested by the Rebbe R' Elimelech in his tzetel koton, the drosho of Chazal on Venishmartem mikol dovor ra, shelo yeharher odom bayom veyovo lidei tuma balaylo, whether it is another possuk or mammar Chazal, whether it is a Shiur on a cellphone, or a Rashbo or Ketzos we remember, we just do what Hashem tells us to do, we focus on His Heilge Torah for as long as it takes and He will do the rest.