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08 Feb 2021 07:11
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Benoni
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So I finally did it. I finally took the initiative to quit my addiction for good. The truth is, I’ve known about this site for a few years, but I never actually signed up until now for two main reasons:
- I was nervous to put myself out there bc I’ve never admitted any of this to anyone else before
- I thought I could quit my addiction without the help of others (this was clearly not the case)
Basically, I’ve been struggling with shmiras einayim since around 13yo and with zera levatala since 15 (I’m now almost 19). Even though I grew up in a secular family, I somehow managed to avoid masturbation for a good while after I started to have urges. In fact, in the last year I hold my record for abstaining from acting out at over 100 days. However, this is really only bc I was living in close quarters with 8 other ppl and there was no privacy. I also struggle with an intense SSA, and this is likely the only place I will admit that bc it’s something I will probably take to my grave. However the the primary reason I’m here is to overcome my internet addiction and procrastination habits. Since I started high school, I have fallen down a hole of bingeing Netflix, YouTube, playing games on my phone, etc. Basically anything to put off doing my real responsibilities. I think this actually goes hand in hand with shmiras einayim bc guarding your eyes should be about viewing anything that will cause one to be nichshal, even if it’s not explicitly assur (e.g. bingeing an “appropriate” tv show). Not only that but I noticed the more I just stay in bed and am mevatel my zman on my phone watching shows or whatever, the more likely I will be motzi zera levatala because my self-discipline was not the strongest to begin with. Chasdei Hashem I found this community bc otherwise who l knows where I’d wind up! Now it seems like there’s a ton of resources on here b”h but honestly I have no clue where to start. Any eitzos?
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05 Feb 2021 03:12
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Hakolhevel
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DavidT wrote on 04 Feb 2021 16:19:
Here are some quotes from people that were/are smarter than me (to say the least)...
Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski,Z"L
It is perfectly possible that while monkeying around with the Internet, you hit a button and there’s a pop-up of an inappropriate scene.
You weren’t looking for it, but it happened. You have exactly 3/10ths of a second to turn it off. And if you wait for 4/10ths of a second, you may become addicted. That’s how severe it is. It’s one of the most powerful addictions. Day after day after day - I get letters and calls from people who say, “what can I do to save myself?” because they have fallen into this addiction and it has taken them all the way down. It has ruined more marriages than anything, ruined families. It’s been terribly destructive.
Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner Z"L
Surfing without a filter violates the prohibition of ‘Yichud’. There is absolutely no excuse not to have an Internet surfing filter on one’s home computer. Not to do so is to violate the commandment, “You shall not put a stumbling block in front of a blind person.
Rav Yosef Viener, Rav of Kehillas Shaar Shamayim, Monsey
There is no bigger problem facing the individual in Klal Yisrael and communities at large than this. I hate to sound pessimistic – but if you have unrestricted Internet in the house – Internet that is not both filtered and reported, I would say there’s a higher than 90% chance that people have already stumbled in your house. And if it hasn’t happened yet, there’s more than a 90% chance it will happen
This all may be true, but then again, if we all followed the rules exactly we wouldn't be here in the first place 
That's why I say, at the end of the day, do what works, and the truth will come out sooner or later.
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04 Feb 2021 22:34
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Lou
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DavidT wrote on 04 Feb 2021 16:19:
Here are some quotes from people that were/are smarter than me (to say the least)...
Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski,Z"L
It is perfectly possible that while monkeying around with the Internet, you hit a button and there’s a pop-up of an inappropriate scene.
You weren’t looking for it, but it happened. You have exactly 3/10ths of a second to turn it off. And if you wait for 4/10ths of a second, you may become addicted. That’s how severe it is. It’s one of the most powerful addictions. Day after day after day - I get letters and calls from people who say, “what can I do to save myself?” because they have fallen into this addiction and it has taken them all the way down. It has ruined more marriages than anything, ruined families. It’s been terribly destructive.
Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner Z"L
Surfing without a filter violates the prohibition of ‘Yichud’. There is absolutely no excuse not to have an Internet surfing filter on one’s home computer. Not to do so is to violate the commandment, “You shall not put a stumbling block in front of a blind person.
Rav Yosef Viener, Rav of Kehillas Shaar Shamayim, Monsey
There is no bigger problem facing the individual in Klal Yisrael and communities at large than this. I hate to sound pessimistic – but if you have unrestricted Internet in the house – Internet that is not both filtered and reported, I would say there’s a higher than 90% chance that people have already stumbled in your house. And if it hasn’t happened yet, there’s more than a 90% chance it will happen
I wanted to click the Thank you button 10 times for this post but system only allows for one!
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04 Feb 2021 16:19
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DavidT
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Here are some quotes from people that were/are smarter than me (to say the least)...
Rabbi Abraham J. Twerski,Z"L
It is perfectly possible that while monkeying around with the Internet, you hit a button and there’s a pop-up of an inappropriate scene.
You weren’t looking for it, but it happened. You have exactly 3/10ths of a second to turn it off. And if you wait for 4/10ths of a second, you may become addicted. That’s how severe it is. It’s one of the most powerful addictions. Day after day after day - I get letters and calls from people who say, “what can I do to save myself?” because they have fallen into this addiction and it has taken them all the way down. It has ruined more marriages than anything, ruined families. It’s been terribly destructive.
Rav Shmuel Halevi Wosner Z"L
Surfing without a filter violates the prohibition of ‘Yichud’. There is absolutely no excuse not to have an Internet surfing filter on one’s home computer. Not to do so is to violate the commandment, “You shall not put a stumbling block in front of a blind person.
Rav Yosef Viener, Rav of Kehillas Shaar Shamayim, Monsey
There is no bigger problem facing the individual in Klal Yisrael and communities at large than this. I hate to sound pessimistic – but if you have unrestricted Internet in the house – Internet that is not both filtered and reported, I would say there’s a higher than 90% chance that people have already stumbled in your house. And if it hasn’t happened yet, there’s more than a 90% chance it will happen
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04 Feb 2021 15:53
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wilnevergiveup
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Here are a few things that I wrote in the past, let me know if this is even close to what you had in mind.
wilnevergiveup wrote on 01 Sep 2020 06:30:
OivedElokim wrote on 31 Aug 2020 21:10:
It seems to me that you have two issues that should be separated and dealt with separately:
1) depression and burnout from yeshiva life , learning etc.
2) a porn and mastubration issue.
Not sure if I agree 100%, I think they are very much connected. Although it's true that p and m issues need to be dealt with on it's own too, it's almost always caused by some underlying issue. Unless you are a full blown addict, it can be much more effective to work on underlying issues as well (in my case, low self esteem and general lack of fulfillment in life). This will help prevent a significant percentage of triggers thereby making your struggle much more focused on just the struggle.
I am no expert, just sharing my understanding, but usually we act out as a pleasure seeking activity. This is usually a result of a need to cover up some uncomfortable feeling we are experiencing. This is true regardless of if we started acting out before we had these issues because we still use them as our "feel good fix", now, just as many people start unhealthy eating habits in early childhood but only start using eating as a fix later on.
It's true that it can get overwhelming to work on too many things at the same time, so you have to take it slow. There is no quick fix, it takes time to grow, a lifetime in fact.
I was once told to think of it like a plant, there is only so much you can do, water it, prune it, etc. If you don't do these things it won't grow and will eventually die, but if you try do do more, thinking the more I do the better it will grow, then it will die for sure.
@klishavur your story sounds eerily familiar. I struggled a lot with the question of "who is the real me?"
I suffer from low self esteem and in my case, I believe, I became really "shtark" as a result. As I grew and worked on it, I kind of just lost the drive. I realized that a huge part of my drive was to prove "them" wrong. I wanted to prove my parents wrong, my Rabeim wrong my Menahel wrong, all the people who had written me off, I wanted to shove it in their face. I wanted to show them, you see, I can go to this Yeshiva (one of the top places in EY) and it's not even because of you. As I grew I kinda didn't really care about "them" anymore. The truth is the "them" didn't really exist anymore.
This made it very hard for me to find motivation and I went through a tekufa where I was really depressed (oh, and btw also one of the worst in acting out as well, coincidence?).
It took me a while to get back to somewhere stable and in the meantime I played the part of what I thought I was expected to be.
One takeaway is that no matter what drove me, no one can take away what I did accomplish, even if it wasn't with good intentions. I still grew by leaps and bounds, during my "flipout" stage.
Now I am just a regular guy in kollel with nothing to prove just doing what I realized I really want to spend my day doing.
It took a few years to inspire myself again to continue to learn full time because I had to build scratch. I learned all the classic sefarim a few times, got a better picture of what life is about, thought about it a lot, and in the end I now am in a much healthier place then I was back then, even if I am not as shtark.
Then I was selfish, now I try to do things for others and my creator.
This is my story and I think it relates in some way to yours.
Once again, it takes time.
Feel free to reach out if you need, or disregard if I am totally off.
All the best,
Wilnevergiveup
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04 Feb 2021 02:20
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Gme
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I have never gotten past much more than a month so take what I have to say with a grain of salt.
But for starters take a step back forget about what was or will be and just be proud of the fact that you were able to get as far as you did! After you've done that my advice is one thing I have learnt, which is that while the streak may be important it's just a number the most important part is the recovery mindset. Regarding addiction they say that relapses cannot be a part of recovery because it means you're going back to an unhealthy lifestyle. However a lapse, a slip is ok and is normal as long you're still in the recovery mindset and get back up, brush yourself off and use it as a lesson moving forward to learn where you have to be more careful and what you can do if you're in a situation like that again.
Kol hakavod that you were able to get so far and it definitely wasn't for nothing, like Gevurah Shebeyesod said worst case scenario you're at least doing it way less now. The most important thing is to get back up and keep on moving don't let it drag you down!
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04 Feb 2021 02:11
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mggsbms
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Hakolhevel wrote on 04 Feb 2021 00:07:
doingtshuva wrote on 03 Feb 2021 23:27:
About 6 years ago I reached out to Rabbi Twerski and he replied to my Email.
This was his reply; These conditions may lie low for a while, but tend to recur. The best way to avoid recurrences is to be in touch with the support group of GYE, with others who share the same problem and who have been successful in the struggle. We each have our struggles with which we must batttle for a lifetime twerski In his Zchus I joined GYE.
Interesting take. (Possibly) Even if one is not an addict, seems like it can still be something we struggle with for a lifetime.
And here I thought one day I'll be free...
In one of his shiurim he says that one can become an addict with one look at P. So its one look and a battle of a lifetime.
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04 Feb 2021 00:07
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Hakolhevel
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doingtshuva wrote on 03 Feb 2021 23:27:
About 6 years ago I reached out to Rabbi Twerski and he replied to my Email.
This was his reply; These conditions may lie low for a while, but tend to recur. The best way to avoid recurrences is to be in touch with the support group of GYE, with others who share the same problem and who have been successful in the struggle. We each have our struggles with which we must batttle for a lifetime twerski In his Zchus I joined GYE.
Interesting take. (Possibly) Even if one is not an addict, seems like it can still be something we struggle with for a lifetime.
And here I thought one day I'll be free...
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03 Feb 2021 23:05
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Lou
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mikestrucking wrote on 05 Feb 2019 21:33:I think for many people here we have to open a new forum called "Internet Forum Addiction for Jewish Men"
That's a very important point Mike, but know that there IS a solution. I used to be completely powerless over my forum addiction. But with the help of my lusting I found pornography, and was completely healed of my obsession to post. I am now able to go over a week without posting on the forum. The best part is, that the posting desires disappeared immediately as soon as I started lusting, unlike other addictions in life where it is a process to get rid of.
I hope you have lots of hatzlacha.
just wondering, in light of the alternative if forum addiction is such a bad thing.... Mark, what do you say?
I saw this post on the depressed chill zone thread. It really hit the spot!
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03 Feb 2021 20:50
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DavidT
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I was just walking in the street and a very respected " magid shiur" passed by. My first thought was, "wow, this guy in a million times more worth than me! I'm a piece of trash compared to him..."
But then I thought, "if I go in the street now and try to guard my eyes and thoughts, I'm doing the will of Hashem even if it's not easy. Who knows what's more special to Hashem..."
It's very important to work on self esteem because people who suffer from low self-esteem and/or depression are often more prone to addictive behaviors (be it alcohol, drugs, or lust). We use the addiction to "self-sooth" feelings of inadequacy, and to escape from ourselves and from the harsh world around us. Also, the "low self-esteem" is - initself - a form of addiction as well. "It" wants us to believe we are un-likeable, incapable, and that no one really cares about us. This is a kind of self-defense mechanism that we often use as a sort-of shell to hide within. Instead of facing our real issues (which we find too hard to face), we use "low self-esteem" to say, "Heck, we aren't worth it anyway; no one cares anyway; we can't anyway". etc. etc... and we close up within ourselves. Any ideas?
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02 Feb 2021 06:22
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YeshivaGuy
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Lou wrote on 02 Feb 2021 05:50:
I have been thinking...
This an idea in formation and I am not really sure how much practical application there is of it anyway,but just wanted to share my thoughts.
I believe there are 2 types or actually 2 stages of people that end up on GYE.(There are probably hundreds of types but I just want to split into 2 groups for this purpose.)
One stage is someone that in his teens,twenties,perhaps even thirties. Either a Bachur or somewhat newly married. The levels of Taiva are very strong. The urge to masturbate and watch porn or even Kosher outlets of lust is always strongly on their mind. They are fighting an uphill battle all the time.
The other stage is one who is usually 40s or above,and possibly went through all of that without GYE.Failed here and there. Was successful here and there.Ended basically holding onto himself for the most part and has moved on a bit.The Aish Hataiva is not consuming him on a daily basis.However,he has a new issue. This issue can possibly be just as bad. That is habit.Bad habits are very hard to break. When he was in his peak it was all about the lust/Taiva. Now, it is just a terrible habit that he is just so used to that he can't break it. (I am specifically not using the term addiction because that is possibly a different level,not sure but just staying away from that debate).
I don't know what is more challenging and if there really is a different way to treat either issue. However, I do think that being on here will work for both people. It may just work in different ways.
The 90 days may be just the perfect fit for the one who is not on a high level of daily lust. He just has to break the habit and that will do the trick. However, one who is consumed by lust can break it and then easily fall because the lust of a young man is a huge battle.
Posting all one's intense struggles on the forums may be just the thing someone in that stage needs as that gives him an outlet to share his feelings of Taiva and have it deflated by his loving friends on here.
Most probably many people are hybrids of both,but one of these is the primary issue,and the other secondary.
Just my thoughts...Any comments welcome.
Thanks
Amazing, very true.
Personnaly, I see that I’m in the “daily strong taiva”group, but I have become habituated in expressing that taiva in a certain way. So as you said, I think I have both.
My understanding of the mahalach here, which is the derech b’chlall in Avodas HaShem is to deal with the taiva in a constructive manner and not a destructive one.
Not to extinguish the aish of taiva, but rather to use it properly (be it through סור מרע or עשה טוב).
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02 Feb 2021 05:50
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Lou
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I have been thinking...
This an idea in formation and I am not really sure how much practical application there is of it anyway,but just wanted to share my thoughts.
I believe there are 2 types or actually 2 stages of people that end up on GYE.(There are probably hundreds of types but I just want to split into 2 groups for this purpose.)
One stage is someone that in his teens,twenties,perhaps even thirties. Either a Bachur or somewhat newly married. The levels of Taiva are very strong. The urge to masturbate and watch porn or even Kosher outlets of lust is always strongly on their mind. They are fighting an uphill battle all the time.
The other stage is one who is usually 40s or above,and possibly went through all of that without GYE.Failed here and there. Was successful here and there.Ended basically holding onto himself for the most part and has moved on a bit.The Aish Hataiva is not consuming him on a daily basis.However,he has a new issue. This issue can possibly be just as bad. That is habit.Bad habits are very hard to break. When he was in his peak it was all about the lust/Taiva. Now, it is just a terrible habit that he is just so used to that he can't break it. (I am specifically not using the term addiction because that is possibly a different level,not sure but just staying away from that debate).
I don't know what is more challenging and if there really is a different way to treat either issue. However, I do think that being on here will work for both people. It may just work in different ways.
The 90 days may be just the perfect fit for the one who is not on a high level of daily lust. He just has to break the habit and that will do the trick. However, one who is consumed by lust can break it and then easily fall because the lust of a young man is a huge battle.
Posting all one's intense struggles on the forums may be just the thing someone in that stage needs as that gives him an outlet to share his feelings of Taiva and have it deflated by his loving friends on here.
Most probably many people are hybrids of both,but one of these is the primary issue,and the other secondary.
Just my thoughts...Any comments welcome.
Thanks
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02 Feb 2021 01:21
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YeshivaGuy
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The Video in Markz’s signature is 100% Emes and revolutionary. And it applies as well, to taiva b’chlall, not just addiction.
Highly recommended for those who haven’t seen it yet
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01 Feb 2021 15:37
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Hakolhevel
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I wanted to dedicate a thread where people can post how Rabbi Twerski is a part of their journey.
I'll start with me.
This is a real simple story, but it points to the great influence Rabbi Twerski had on the Jewish world.
Long before I joined GYE, I had a very negative opinion about addicts. My opinion was it only existed by lowlifes and people who are not Frum. I had never heard of Sex addicts at that point, in taking strictly alcohol/drugs...
I had downloaded on my iPod all kinds of lectures/shiurim someone once gave me, and one of them was by Rabbi Twerski.
So one day I decide to listen to it. It must have been a talk from a while ago, but in it , he was trying to bring attention to the frum community that the issues of alcohol/drugs/gambling addiction existed in the frum community. And he said story after story.
To me it was a eye opening experience that Addicts exist in the frum community, and even in people who are not lowlifes. Even successful learned people.
It wasn't until a couple years later when I got into GYE I saw that there are sex addicts as well. But he paved the way for me to realize regular frum people can have problems, and that 12 steps is not a program for lowlifes, but for people who want to better their life.
I look forward to hearing your stories
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