Hi everyone,

I'm not doing so hot. I have (only) 3 clean days so far. I've slipped a lot over the past 3 days, but without falling.

Yesterday I want back to very bad surfing habits, but managed to delete and close up before reaching the point of no return. I realized early on that I would never be satisfied with where I was going (surfing). At least I have that to speak of.

I realize that besides my lust addiction, I'm also addicted to the Internet. For the past couple of weeks I have been surfing (mostly news sites and blogs) for most of my work day and working the last couple of hours just to be able to tell my boss that I got some work done. I'm obviously very concerned about this, but I feel utterly compelled to surf. I've mentioned in the past that I'm very bored with my work, but this is ridiculous! This is not the time to find something else (since there aren't many jobs out there and so many unemployed people looking).

Now I have another addiction to worry about! It's almost too much for me to handle.

I'm so bored with my life! I know that if I got a different job, it would be exciting for a year, then I'll be bored all over again. I feeling like quitting, but I don't know what I'd do home alone unemployed besides act out and fall into a deep depression. That's not an option for me. I simply don't know what to do.

Ideas on how to do a job you have no motivation for, and how to break an Internet addiction?

Regards,
An unhappy and worried Momo

Dear David,

Welcome to our community, once you've arrived, there's no turning back. Everyone here will just grab a hold of you and pull you up up up!

To find a partner/sponsor, please see this post.

We get cries for help exactly like yours every day, by e-mail and on the forum. Tzuras Rabim Chatzi Nechama    And that is why we created the GYE handbooks (links below). If you read them well, from beginning to end, slowly, and try to implement what you read, you will find the answers within them to enable you to completely turn your life around. I cannot answer you in one short e-mail, so I implore you, if you value your life in this world and the next, at least do at least this for yourself. You're worth it.

Also, join the daily Chizuk e-mail lists to get fresh chizuk every day, and post away on this forum. You will get tons of daily Chizuk and support. This disease can't be beat alone. It works best when you get out of isolation!

We have a hotline on this page, where you can call and speak to someone with experience.

And we are starting tomorrow a 12-Step phone group that would be a tremendous step in the right direction for you and help you turn your life around. PLEASE JOIN DUVID CHAIM'S daily group. Send me an e-mail if you're interested, to eyes.guard@gmail.com and I'll send you the info... Not only will you learn the secret of the 12-Steps - which is known to be the world's most powerful program for beating addiction having helped millions world wide, but joining the group will be another way of GETTING OUT OF ISOLATION and connecting with others who are going through what you are. This is VERY important.

Let me tell you a little about the two GuardYourEyes handbooks. They lay down the cornerstone and foundation of our work, and they make our network much more effective and helpful for people.

You see, until now, people would often get "lost" when coming to our website, not knowing what tips and techniques to try. For example, a beginner wouldn't jump straight into therapy or 12-Step groups, while on the other hand, someone whose addiction was more advanced wouldn't be helped by the standard tips of "making fences" putting in "filters" etc... So it was essential to develop a handbook which details all the techniques and tools to dealing with this addiction in progressive order. Now with these handbooks, anyone can read through and see what steps they've tried already, and if those steps haven't worked, they can continue on through the handbook where the steps become progressively more powerful and "addiction-oriented".

And the second handbook, called the "Attitude" handbook, can also help anyone, no matter what level of addiction they may have. Often people write in to us saying that had they only known the proper outlook & attitude that we try and share on the GuardYourEyes network when they were younger, they would have never fallen into an addiction in the first place! So we hope that through this handbook, many addictions will be prevented.

The handbooks are PDF files, set up as eBooks, and they have bookmarks and hyper-links in the Index, to make them easy to navigate.

Make sure to read them, they contain a wealth of information on beating this addiction! And I'd love to hear your feedback on them...

Note: You might want to print them out to read away from the computer. Keep in mind though, that if you do this, you won't be able to click on the many web links in the articles. But you can always come back to them later. The truth is, it's anyway good to go through the whole handbook once without clicking on links, just to get an overview of all the tools available. Once you did that, you can start again from tool #1 and read each tool through more carefully, click the links and study each technique and assess whether you have tried it fully yet or not...

Right click on the links below and select "Save Link/Target As" to download the handbooks to your computer.

1) The GuardYourEyes Handbook
This Handbook details 18 suggested tools and techniques, in progressive order, beginning with the most basic and fundamental approaches to dealing with this addiction, and continuing down through increasingly earnest and powerful methods. For the first time, we can gauge our level of addiction and find the appropriate tools for our particular situation. And no matter what level our addiction may have advanced to, we will be able to find the right tools to break free in this handbook!

2) The GuardYourEyes Attitude
The Attitude Handbook details 30 basic principles to help us maintain the proper attitude and perspective on this struggle. Here are some examples: Understanding what we are up against, what it is that Hashem wants from us, how we can use this struggle for tremendous growth, how we can deal with bad thoughts, discovering how to redirect the power of our souls, understanding that every little bit counts, learning how to bounce back up after a fall, and so on and so forth...

Thank you London, so beautifully said!!

But maybe you want to also give a shot to try and answer these questions to the best of your ability? I respect your opinion very much and would want to hear how a "simple Jew" sees it...

• At what level addiction should we send someone to the groups?


• Is it only after he tried all 13 tools of the handbook, or there's nothing wrong with sending someone earlier than that as well?


• Are there legitimate problems with some of the groups?


• Do we need to give hadracha to a Jew who is joining?


• Would it be possible to develop one day a strategy or program that is just as powerful and successful as the 12-Step groups, but with a Torahdik approach?

Tradition 3 of AA States "The only requirement for A.A. membership is a desire to stop drinking".  SA goes further and states "The only requirement for membership is a desire to stop lusting and become sexually sober."
In the topic I left out sexually sober, as I have lust for money and food as well sexual lust.  I have learned from my bitter experience that unless I am willing to put down all addictive processes, I will not achieve any long lasting sobriety.  Further the fears of financial insecurity cause me to want to lust to medicate my feelings of fear and anxieties.  Further the more weight I put on the more I will loath myself and my self esteem levels will deteriorate further, which could cause me to act out on.  If I overspend or do not have clarity with my finances I will also increase my anxieties which could lead me to acting out.

As a young teenager I learned to medicate uncomfortable feelings, feelings of fear and anxiety with masturbating and binge eating.  However, this coping mechanism turned into an addiction that took on a life of its own.  When I first started to act out sexually I got a tremendous hit and it provided temporary relief for me, however the hit started to loose its effect and the intensity had to increase, this is evident from my story.  Today in recovery I have to reverse this process, and when I get the feelings of anxieties I have to learn that the feelings will not kill me and sit through them, make a call to someone, and try and work out what is causing the anxieties.

I have started this journal to write about my progress (or otherwise) on working on becoming sober in all three areas, as they are so inextricably linked.  I will also use this journal to write about my story.

Today; BH I am sexually sober, although I could have averted my eyes whilst driving.  Today I also have the desire to stop lusting and to become sober.  I need to make more progress with my food as there are underlying anxieties going on that I am binge eating on.

Your ability to speak the truth is one of your strengths.

You said you fell twice-
I find this happened to me, when I had the accompanying feeling of
"Well I am giving this up, right, so as long as I fell, I might as well..."
"I might not ever get to do this again, so - at least enjoy..."

This makes sense to my addicted mind, which really doesn't believe that I will Never do it again, but just uses this latest urge of mine to purify myself - against me. Halevai! I will never do it again?! Great!
But the YH - like a martial arts master - flips me over, using my own energy!

I encourage you - not to despair of controlling your urges.
Battala mevia lidei ZIMAH
Keep productive, give to others and POST
If you have a day like you mentioned - read posts and reply

I got chizzuk out of your determination - in the face of falling - to keep trying.
Thank you
I am going to Doven Maariv, and will add a prayer for you

Today was 17

I was able to keep my eyes to myself in town, and keep up my commitment to look down at my Tzitzit (with tchelet) every time a hihur crosses my mind.
I am experiencing a greater sense of clam which is helping my dovening and learning.

Looking at the cybersex attraction as an addiction has helped me immensely. I researched a little and some definitions helped me understand how triggers, and acting out - works. (or doesn't work!)


I was wondering if anyone has insights into the general nature of addictions, that includes all the things that we can't stop at will.
Like -

biting fingernails
Scratching pimples
Drinking coffee

These are little things that get in the way, but do not directly violate Religious laws or morals.

Should we be able to control all of these urges - and others?

I have been reading the last few posts with great interest, and would like to offer my thoughts. 

One of the basic tools of 12 step fellowships is that we do not advise anyone to do anything.  It says in chapter 5 of the AA BB that here are the steps that are “suggested”.  We are not (at least I do not think I am) gurus of recovery we only have our own experience and perspective.  People’s tolerance to their addiction is very personal and differs from one to another.  I had to reach level 3.5 before I came into recovery I know people who have never been online but struggle with mast and fantasy that go to the meetings, they had reached for them their own rock bottom.

The groups offer 24 hour support that GYE does not.  People who attend meetings will get contacts of other members to call 24/7 and take calls of other struggling members.  Posting on the internet is a fantastic tool, but if I am in the heat of addiction, and about to go to a really inappropriate place, the forum at this time is useless but my cell phone can save me, I know this as in the past I have been pulled back from the brink of the abyss by making a call at the last second.

Another point that has been bothering me is that people are giving advice and opinions on some very serious matters that can have a major impact on people’s lives.  People, who do not have long term recovery, people who have not been to meetings.  Six months of sobriety is amazing, but it is not long term recovery, 3 – 4 years is still considered early recovery.  I am not the biggest Talmid Chochum on this site, and perhaps this site is catering only for Talmedai Chachomim, as on this thread most of what has been discussed has gone totally over my head, but when I get to meetings I hear a really clear and simple message.  Personally I think that matters are becoming overly complicated, and for most addicts who come into recovery whose brains are messed up, we should not be quoting a plethora of seforim.  A simple message, you are ill, you cannot cure yourself, your life is messed up, but there is One who can help you – plain and simple.  Before we start creating programs etc lets try and put some serious time of recovery in place.  Let’s not run before we are walking.  Let’s try and keep matters really simple.  That is not to say that we cannot create “tools” to aid our recovery like, telephone contacts, or perhaps a monitored instant chat where people can talk to someone instead of looking at prn.  In my time in recovery I have been both to Israel and the US and met a lot of people in SA recovery, and from my experience most people are plain and simple Yidden, most of us did not do too well in Yeshiva as our minds were too preoccupied.

Recovery is medicine, and like medicine it can take time to find the right dose to become effective.  So we should “suggest” to people to work through the tools until they find the level that keeps them sober.

If I have offended anyone, I ask mechillo, this is not a personal attack on anyone, these are my concerns.
Thanks
London

Dear David-

I am not giving a professional opinion just commenting from my own experience. It does not really matter that everyone else has problems. What does matter is that you have decided that you are willing to improve yourself. This itself puts you lightyears ahead of many others. The key here is to understand that which you are trying to change in order to properly address it. (call it an addiction or whatever you want) When I internalize the idea that I am not in control of my addiction, I am in no way saying that there is nothing that I can do about it. All that I am saying is that attacking it with direct will is not the way to go. The proper approach can be in ways harder than a direct attack of the YH with will. But it works. This makes it vastly different than the hundreds of other ways that I have tried to fight the YH that got me back to where I started from (or worse). So yes, the GYE approach can require a small leap of faith in the beginning, but just look at how many people were like us (or worse) and have totally changed their lives in ways I can only dream of.

Wishing you loads of Hatzlacha,

Your fellow warrior,
Hoping

My take:

• At what level addiction should we send someone to the groups?

I am now more aware of the relapse issue in group meetings that Kokorikoo was talking about. I am now also more aware of the history of AA.

I believe that for both those reasons (in addition to others) we should encourage newcomers to work Steps first before going to groups. That is how they did it with Beginner's meetings in the old days. In Cleveland in the 1940s they had a 93% success rate (DR. BOB and the Good Oldtimers, p. 261). Here is how they did it then:
"The newcomer is not permitted to attend a regular AA meeting until he has been given a thorough knowledge of the work (through the 4 1-hour beginner classes)."
(Cleveland Central Bulletin 1943)

Most importantly, through working with the newcomer on the Steps we will know who is serious.

• Is it only after he tried all 13 tools of the handbook, or there's nothing wrong with sending someone earlier than that as well?

I do not believe that we should ever ransom anyone to taking the Steps or using a set of tools before we give them information. In my opinion recommending looking at the different tools and doing the Steps first is the first thing, if they accept that fine. If they are only interested in the groups we can tell them that they can find the groups on sa.org. If we have been working with them either through the Steps, tools or other ways and feel they are good candidates then we can give more specific information that will identify groups with large frum makeup.

• Are there legitimate problems with some of the groups?

Groups that have little direction, relatively low sobriety and significant relapse can be a problem. Newcomers who do not get a good sponsor, who are not committed enough to work the program well can get ideas that make the problem worse -- they can be lead to believe that because they have a disease they can't help relapsing, they can discover new ways to act out and once they are SA members they may feel they are part of the solution even when they have repeated relapse.

• Do we need to give hadracha to a Jew who is joining?

I think that anyone who has done the Steps before going has the best hadracha that there is. Additionally the most important guidance in my opinion is to find a sponsor who is religious and to begin Step taking as soon as possible.

• Would it be possible to develop one day a strategy or program that is just as powerful and successful as the 12-Step groups, but with a Torahdik approach?

I believe that it will eventually be possible to use a Torah approach to develop our experience of what has worked best within the AA system into a program that is entirely developed from Torah concepts and sources

Battleworn, I can only agree to forgive you if you promise to keep inspiring us all on the forum!!

I don't think I am as smart as you and Boruch and Dov, but you have my word that if you can come up with a formula that all three of you agree on, I will be more than happy to include it as the official policy of GYE from now on. If the three of you cannot agree, I can take it to Rabbi Twerski for a final decision.

It seems to me that the questions we want to address are:

• At what level addiction should we send someone to the groups?


• Is it only after he tried all 13 tools of the handbook, or there's nothing wrong with sending someone earlier than that as well?


• Are there legitimate problems with some of the groups?


• Do we need to give hadracha to a Jew who is joining?


• Would it be possible to develop one day a strategy or program that is just as powerful and successful as the 12-Step groups, but with a Torahdik approach?

Please tell me if I'm missing anything.

guardureyes wrote on 27 Jun 2009 21:12:


1) dov was explaining the difficulty of coping with einom yehudim talking about getting nissim from Hashem:

dov]the people with recovery are goyim - and they are talking about MY HASHEM! They have to be, cuz they are having nissim, aren't they? How can this be? Most of us would rather not get involved in such a thing, period.[/quote]

When ainom Yehudim Trust Hashem, offer themselves to Him as His servants, right their character defects and help others as Hashem wants them to, is it so shocking that they should get miracles? And if it is shocking how does the food comparison address that?

2) dov added some parenthetical words that you did not quote:

[quote= wrote:


It does not sound like his problem was with the religious specifics you discussed, Guard, because Dr Bob, co-founder of AA and Roy K, founder of SA both believed in not getting into religious specifics and yet dov seems uncomfortable with their position.

Meanwhile, I have just scanned my second to last post. Am I allowed to comment on my own post?




The obvious perspective to take on this is perhaps in line with what everyone seems to be saying about the 12 steps - you can't break the habit yourself - only Hashem can help. The fact that I have been putting effort into improving, but that the results appear by magic  elsewhere, indicates, nay, proves that achievements are only through Hashem's action. Obviously this is true everywhere in life, but seeing it so clearly in this field of endeavor is nonetheless a relief, even if not a surprising one

I feel that it’s time to introduce myself. Reb Dov expressed an interest in getting to know me better and it will also be’H help other people understand me better.

(Most of what I’m about to say is not in my story that I posted many month’s ago.) My struggles with p*** and mast. started from a very very young age. I have had a lot of ups and downs. When I was in the grip of lust, I was liable to do very crazy things. Just as an example, I once traveled by train from Brooklyn to Manhattan in middle of the night; despite the fact that I as far as I knew I had more than a 50% chance of getting attacked or killed. Hashem in His mercy arranged it that I should only have 20 dollars on me, thereby saving me from a doing worse aveiroh than I actually did.

I also have an inborn -very powerful, longing for Hashem and love for every jew. I have found that these two things are interdependent. It’s very clear to me that the lust is just a “levush” –a cover up. When my longing for Hashem is locked up and can’t express itself, it ends up being expressed as lust and/or outrageous curiosity.

For the past 15 years, each time that I fell, I soon bounced back up –bechasdei Hashem-   as a bigger, better and wiser person than I was before. As a result of all my ups and downs, I developed a very heightened awareness of the difference between being close to Hashem and not being close. Between that and my love of Hashem and Jews, I became extremely sensitive to other people’s spiritual pain.

When I see someone become distant or when I see someone struggling with their y’h, I feel great pain even if he himself doesn’t seem to be suffering at all. When I’m davening I can sometimes spend literally hours pleading with Hashem to “turn the lights on” for His children that are having trouble finding their way. As this developed, I’ve been forced to reach ever higher levels of Emunah and Bitachon; otherwise I would simply not be able to handle the pain at all.   I don’t really expect everyone to understand me, but even if you don’t, at least you can understand that you don’t understand. All this is, as I said, a result of my struggles. It’s not a result of any special “avodah” or whatever.

I believe that it’s very common among lust addicts to have this powerful spiritual longing. It may often be so well concealed that we are totally unaware of it. But that doesn’t mean it’s not there. Once we become aware of it and learn how to express it, it can shine very strong. I assume that some of you can relate more to what I’m saying, and some less.  

My apology last week was clearly not sufficient. But I needed to introduce myself before I can do it right.
When I see something on the holy GYE network, that in my opinion, can c’v cause a Jew to have less of a relationship with Hashem than he could have had; it pains me in a very tangible way. The obvious thing to do in such a case, is of course to discuss it with Rabeinu Guard. This is what I’ve always done. The problem is that my brain and his brain are almost totally incompatible. Our hearts are compatible "and then some" and that’s what counts the most, but our brains –forget about it. In general I don’t have this problem with other people and I assume that in general he doesn’t have this problem with other people. But Hashem in His infinite wisdom (which it would be foolish of us to expect to understand) arranged that we can hardly communicate with each other.

As for me, it’s totally baseless and unfair to blame him for not understanding me. I therefore take back, sincerely regret and publicly apologize for being disrespectful and for blaming him. Rabeinu, please forgive me!

I also want to sincerely apologize publicly to Reb Dov. I should have handled the situation differently, without discussing in public what shouldn’t be discussed in public. Reb Dov, please forgive me!

I also want to apologize to whoever was bothered by the stir that I caused. Please forgive me and I hope you understand me better now.

I except upon myself, to put more effort in to staying patient under all circumstances.
Furthermore, while there’s no way that I can take these issues less seriously; there are ways to avoid problems. To that end, from now on, I will direct my questions etc. on this thread (and on my thread) primarily to Dov and Boruch. Obviously, I don’t mean to ask others not to answer. It’s just that I’m letting you know that the feedback that I’m looking for, is primarily from Boruch and Dov.

I know that we all have a whole lot more in common than we have differences and I'm sure we can accomplish very great things together.

with tremendous love to all, batle[no longer]worn

Dear Hellbent, read tool #8 of the GYE handbook. No one said these 90 days will be easy. You are learning to break an addictive pattern that you have developed over many years. But you can ask those who made it, it really does get much easier after 90 days, often even before... Did you ever read through this page?

Gut Voch David. You're absolutely right that everyone has problems. What's so important to realize, is that you have an addiction.
An addiction is a vicious cycle that can't be dealt with in the same way as a regular nissoyon. Once you realize that you have an addiction, you are ready to learn how to deal with it!