iwantlife wrote on 02 Feb 2025 16:56:

First of all, I wanted to thank you for this and your other recent post, it really resonated with me. You brought out such important points with great clarity.

I could probably fit my entire shoe into yours, but here goes  .

I also fell after a long streak (almost a year) and struggled mightily to get back up. Literally went in circles and started feeling increasingly hopeless, as the old, worn, familiar cycles stared me in the face. 

Just sharing what I found important for me. I'm sure others had different experiences. For me, mindset was everything. 

Clawing back to that clarity, the mindset of what got me clean in the first place was crucial. 

This could be a combination of things, such as, what porn does for me and why I can utilize better solutions, not wanting to be a hopelessly addicted pervy creep for the rest of my life, examining the science of addiction/dopamine, its effects on the brain and understanding how futile it is to continue on this path of destruction, The BOTG approach, etc., whatever mehalich out there that speaks to getting the mindset back. 

The rest, challenging days and all, will follow. You will no longer be stuck in that loop cycle. 

It’s up to you what’s considered a fall and what isn’t. Some people only consider a fall if they ejaculate. Others consider it a fall any time they touch themselves and give themselves an erection. At the end of the day, whatever you decide, recognize that keeping track of your streak is just a tool in your recovery. It’s not the be all and end all.

For example, if someone look at scantily clad women in lingerie ads every day for a year, but don’t look at P and M, they haven’t fallen (at least not the way I keep track). That being said , are they doing well in recovery? Definitely not. In contrast, Somebody who watches full blown p once every other month, but is otherwise totally clean is in a better place than the guy looking at lingerie every day.

On that note, as far as our brain is concerned, there’s nothing magic about P. In other words, lingerie adds, or playing with self but not reaching O, still strenghten the neuropathways of your addiction. Just the chemical dose is less than hardcore P.

Try to look at your recovery holistically. Wishing you much success! We got this!

Poedel wrote on 30 Jan 2025 14:24:

Welcome to GYE poodle. Please excuse me for thinking that you might be a troll due to the outlandish nature of your dilemma. If you are not a troll, I strongly recommend that you meet with a competent Frum therapist. I am certain they can help you make some progress in your challenges 

peace brother.

Part 2

I was fighting with my teeth and nails, holding on by a thread so as not to fall. I begged for help. I screamed SAVE ME, I can't take this any longer. I was getting mixed messages from different people. Some said, come on, get over it, you're doing great, you're keeping up for so long... Others said, come on, face it, you're an addict, you need help, maybe attend a12 steps group, others pushed back, why should you go to a group, it has some problems, it's only used if there's no other choice... I was stuck in the middle, not knowing what to do and who to believe. I was literally going crazy. I felt like I was busting. How much can a human being handle? Who do I believe? This is ridiculous. I CAN'T ANYMORE. HASHEM WHAT DO YOU WANT FROM ME. I remember one night after a really difficult therapy session where my therapist pushed me to join a group, and others pushed back (falsely claiming that I was just fine) that I, for the first time in my life, felt like I was going crazy. I did not feel like myself. My mind was going wild. I was furious, mad, angry, and confused. I was terrified that I'd snap. (By luck, Hashem sent my way a good friend I hadn't met in over a year to get me out of my crazy mood).I tried fighting a little longer, constantly questioning myself why I was fighting this fight. However, after 726 days clean, I finally broke and slipped. After coming home from a wedding late, I searched keywords on the Web(that the filter let through) and ended up with M that night.These were the text messages that night:




I didn't know what to do. I was numb. However, I also felt a sense of relief—it's hard to explain. I had finally proven that I wasn't lying the past few weeks. I also realized that M didn't even feel as good as I thought it did. I decided not to stay down but get up and move on.This is the text I sent my partner the following day:



It was a miracle that I was able to get back up and not continue falling. I brushed myself off and stood up again.After another 726+62 days of remaining clean, I had something very stressful,l and I read stuff again. And fell. From then I've been grappling for the past month approximately with looking at pictures, watching borderline stuff..., and acting out...I'm a broken man with a broken soul. My ego is shattered to the ground. After hundreds of clean days, I'm back to square one and still struggling and falling without any way out of this. My willpower is very low; I'm afraid of another failure. It's too painful . I can't afford losing another battle so I just gave up. Again,  I'm unsure whether I'm supposed to join a group, and  I'm getting conflicting messages from both sides. I'm stuck, miserable, living a double life, betraying my wife (and myself), having a hard time falling asleep and waking up, have no patience to work, am depressed and down. On the one hand, I'm crying for help. On the other hand, I'm afraid of another failure. I don't know what else to say except that I'm totally messed up.Love you all,Ytw.

Hi Simchastorah, 

Just wanted to let you know from a guy who has felt the same way for my whole life - I understand you. For most of my life I was trying to find ways to end it so I could get out of the addiction - I felt bipolar since I am inherently a very sensitive and spiritual person, A+ all grades, davening and learning and very close connection to Hashem, the whole deal. I couldn't make peace with my existence in this world causing pain to others.
I am only alive due to nissim galuyim. 

And I am very much alone - I take care of my wife's health and 5 kids all day, so I don't go to shul 2 blocks away or see anyone in the rapidly growing community I was very much a part of building. And I could never really explain to anyone my wife's spiritual journey or the challenges it has made for me - so I feel alone from my wife as well.

Any my future aspirations are hampered by incredible challenges, within and without.

I don't need the pity party, my point here is to say I understand you.

And - Hashem and the world needs you. The proof is that you are alive today. So we all here are depending on you to not give up, ever. 

I just hit 90 days, and there was no thunder or lightning, and didn't feel like it moved the needle much in my relationship. But it told me I can beat this disease that has been killing me since I was 7 yrs old. I don't know if I can beat it forever, but if I can do 90, I can do 91, and hopefully 180.

Reach out to PM if you need to vent or you need a hug.

Part 3 of my story:



Going back in time, how did I become an addict?



The computer we had in my house growing up was not well filtered. So, being a curious kid whose parents were completely silent when it came to the topic of s*x, I looked up some stuff a handful of times to learn more about this odd and fascinating topic that the less sheltered in kids in school were talking about. It never really developed into an addiction, this was only a handful of times in elementary school and high school. I was away from home for high school, so undoubtedly that saved me from becoming an addict in my teens.



Nonetheless, the seeds of addiction were definitely planted. The memory of the dopamine rush of P, even without M (I never did M until after I got married interestingly. We'll get to that later) was so intense and physically pleasurable. I would later use this as a drug to cope/escape my troubles.



On the topic of religion, I was a very clean kid in high school. Never did drugs, smoked, got drunk, hung out with girls etc. So while not a typical "kid at risk," I was really struggling with basic motivation to be frum. The yeshiva I was in never really discussed hashkafa in a serious way, and as far as I could tell, Judaism was a bizarre set of rituals that we perform in order to get to Heaven and avoid Hell. Frankly, even if that was true, it was largely irrelevant to me. I was, and remain, incapable of living my life on those terms. 



I wanted something more. I wanted a relationship with God (if such a thing was even possible). I wanted meaning. I wanted a way of life that addressed the world in which I lived, not some far off metaphysical realm. So at the end of high school, I was prepared to drop frumkeit cold turkey and go off to college somewhere I would be free to forge my own path.



First, I wanted to give Judaism one last chance, so I went to a Yeshiva in Israel with the hope and prayer of finding my place in yiddishkeit. 



Thanks for reading. To be continued...    

Poedel wrote on 30 Jan 2025 14:24:

Is Layla the frum version of Lilith? Dude, share her number, enough of the gatekeeping! 

Seriously though, your pain is palpable...and relatable. 

Even though you've tried everything, the point the guys above are trying to say is, stick around here a bit. Whatever that "GYE dust" may be, it tends to rub off on you after a while.

A beaten path DOES exist out there that will help you help yourself, whether on or off this forum. You will find it if you look for it.

Dear Chosemyshem,
To tell you the truth, I haven't touched myself since december 2018, in any way. I go to the mikweh on a regular basis, I have spoken to people on the phone, everything possible I have tried. You want me to be honest? I am addicted, that's the dead honest truth. And you want to know what I am addicted to, if I don't touch myself? I am communicating with a Shin Dalet, and she is having s** with me, and she needs p**n to get in the mood. There you have it, now you would in my eyes be the greatest Chacham if you can get me out of the brothel of hers, because that what she is seducing me to enter every now and then. But mind you, I am not always there, only every now and then. I have changed my streak on the chart for technical reasons, but before I had about 3800 plus days clean, not in a row, but as a total. And I am also communicating with an angel, called Layla, maybe you've heard of her? Call me mad if you like (in which case you should leave me alone), but I am in this place in my life, this is my reality, and I am trying to get that Shin Dalet of my back, and am barely succeeding. So dear Chosemyshem, do you think you have it to help me? I hope so, because I really need help!

Sincerely,
Poedel

89 days wow. but i realized i am sitting here on GYE instead of connecting to my wife.
Big challenge for a year - aside from my wife's extreme health challenges, she has been on an utterly baffling spiritual journey. Not going to get into details but on one hand it seems amazing and the other seems crazy and at sometimes its been psychotic.
And she has lost interest in my passions and direction for future stability due to the fact that it hasn't yet been successful, I haven't been sober, she is on her own path, and other reasons.
For months we have had very little time/headspace to connect other than my taking care of her physical needs the whole day. Painful.
So we have been very emotionally separate, not connecting much even though we both know we really need each other and we have experienced an amazing deep relationship, despite my addiction and her having health challenges since we got married, and worse when she got steadily debilitating lyme disease 10 yrs ago.
I took her today on a 30 minute drive to an appointment we needed to take - this was probably a longer drive than she has had in over a year (she has been in bed most of the day, every day, for about 5 years with some interludes) so we had some time to talk. She asked me "what are your relationship needs?" 
I told her I am here to show up as our relationship allows and look forward to coming back closer, and that I can't make any part of our relationship a "need" because having expectations will just backfire. 

I'm hoping Hashem will show the way. Right now just hanging tight to my sobriety - tomorrow is 90 days!!!!

A gut chodesh, a big yasher koiach to GYE for making space to unburden.

The Anatomy of a Fall and a (iyH!) Recovery 

Ok folks. I've been feeling increasingly unproductive this morning as I sit at home with my flu-stricken daughter getting nothing done, so instead of doing something regrettable, I'll post an update. BH I'm coming up on 2 weeks clean since my fall from a (first-ever!) 180 day high. About that. It wasn't fun. It made me sad. I really wanted to be counted among those of my dear friends here who have started the GYE/HHM/Friends/Brothers program and rocketed straight up, fall-free for 180, 360, 600 days etc. So to fall was a crushing disappointment.

That said, I've come to appreciate a few things about my fall:

   First, comparing progress to others is somewhat futile. Who's to say we have the same daily internet or other trigger exposure? I, for one, sit in front of a computer for much of the day. Who's to say we have the same level of habit for this stuff? I, for one, have been struggling with P & M since around the age of 10, and I'm now over 30 years old. Who's to say we've had the same incidental life stresses during that time, be it related to parnasah, sholom bayis, health or otherwise. I've had a little of all of the above. So while none of these absolve me of my choices, they definitely contribute to differing outcomes.

  Secondly, an all or nothing, perfectionist mindset, something I'm susceptible to generally, is profoundly unhelpful. To quote a good friend here, @yosefms, "Being obsessed about not doing something isn't that far away from being obsessed about doing something". That doesn't mean I should lose focus of the goal, which is to be clean, everyday. But it does mean that I need a balanced approach. Which leads me to my next point.

  Third, as a few of my friends pointed out to me, generally, what I was doing was working. Accountability, both with HHM and friends, constant contact with the same, and reading TBOTG got me to 6 months. And let's be honest, if it would 'only' get me another 6 months till the next fall ch'v, I'd keep at it. 2 times a year down from 100+ times of year is incredible ROI. That said, I'm hoping that one of the main reasons I fell was that I was still missing in the positive part of this fight, having only read a little bit of TBOTG before I fell. I sincerely hope that if I had been reading it for as long as I was clean, I might've never fallen; however I'm always open to suggestions! (Vaad anyone?)

To wrap things up, I want to say a few (more) things:

  I had such a fear to fall that I rationalized away many slips as "non-falls". That was wrong for 2 reasons. 1) Slips are bad, but if caught quickly are just that. They don't mean that we will fall further. They are not the end (neither are falls!), and don't let the YH convince you otherwise. 2) Be honest when you have crossed the line; I hope it will be easier for me to do that now that my 'perfect game' is gone with the wind.

   Also, if you do fall, be aware that the first few days and weeks will be very hard. It's normal, and it's called a "high-risk period" in addiction science and psychology, due to things like feelings of guilt, failure, loss of momentum, and a re-sensitization to the addictive things we've been avoiding but have deep memory of. It will pass, but you need to hang tight. I've had several strong urges and a few slips over the past 2 weeks; knowing that it's to be expected has helped a lot.

  Finally, although I'm not out of the woods yet, as the climb out of Porn Abyss is quite steep, as I just mentioned, I BH seemed to have bounced back rather quickly, as in I've been clean ever since the day I fell. This is by far the most heartening thing to have happed to me, as I know not everyone has this experience. While I'm not certain, I strongly believe it's because, although I felt terrible when I fell, as I always did for the past 20+ years, there was something that I didn't​ feel (ok maybe I felt for a bit, but it quieted down quickly), and that was a deep sense of ייאוש. Ultimately, I was clean for 6 months, and that showed me that it wasn't hopeless, and I COULD do it. I think that is by far the most powerful tool in my toolbox, because with this knowledge, I'm truly halfway there (see my signature), and it makes getting back up so much easier. I want to thank Hashem both for this and His help in general, as well all my dear friends who have helped me, both with climbing and recovering; in my entire life I've never known such true friendship. We're all in this together, and only together will we beat this thing holding us back from being our true selves, which really want life the way it's meant to be lived.

Humbly,
iwantlife

Thanks for this reminder simchashatorah! I'm only one day ahead (depending on your time zone) of you to 90 days, just wanted to share that the 90 days for me has no magic but it is proof to me that after nearly 30 years of addiction, I can break free and be truly clean. I think that's a pretty big miracle, but if Hashem can do it once he can do it again, and I'll give it my very best shot each day.
That's all.
And then I need to make a calendar for 180 days.
Wishing you mazel tov on the upcoming milestone!

Today, I want to share one of my recent experiences.

For some time now, due to various personal struggles, I’ve been going through a real drop in morale. During this period, fighting the Yetzer Hara became especially difficult.

For many years—and still to some extent today—masturbation and seeking inappropriate images on the internet have been my quickest and most effective escape from problems, or a way to seek excitement to fill an inner void. This mechanism is deeply ingrained in me after nearly 20 years of addiction.

During this past week, when my morale was at its lowest, my thoughts automatically drifted toward these temptations. Without even fully realizing it, multiple times a day, I found myself searching for such images. Despite having a good filter, I still managed to find loopholes, and several times throughout the week, I started viewing inappropriate content—though I never went as far as masturbation. Thanks to this forum and with Hachem’s help, I managed to stop each time after just a few minutes.

But this morning, I woke up already feeling a strong urge. To make matters worse, I received bad news, which pushed me even further into discouragement. As I stepped into the shower, I started to stimulate myself, seeking that easy pleasure...

Then, suddenly, a phrase flashed through my mind—"I am a hero"—which is a perfect example of the wisdom of Hazal in Berakhot 10a:

"אפילו חרב חדה מונחת על צווארו של אדם אל ימנע עצמו מן הרחמים."
"Even if a sharp sword rests upon a person’s neck, he should not withhold himself from divine mercy."

Just moments before, I was completely lost, already resigned to my impending failure and thinking about how I would later share it on the forum. But suddenly, this realization hit me:

 I am a hero.
I am a Jew in the 21st century, surrounded by Tum’a and Pritzut. And yet, every day, I wake up, I pray to Hachem, I study Torah, I raise my children in a Torah-filled home, I uphold the laws of Taharat Hamishpacha with my wife, I eat kosher, I keep Shabbat, I strive to guard my mouth and ears from Lashon Hara… I am a hero!

How did the Yetzer Hara manage to convince me that, when it comes to this particular sin, I was doomed to fail? That I could bypass it whenever I wanted for my own pleasure? That after all, "this is just who I am", "I am weak", and "there’s nothing I can do about it"?

(I want to be clear: this is not Ga'ava.. Of course, we are all different, and of course, sometimes I succeed in resisting the Yetzer Hara, and sometimes I fall—like any man, I believe. But what I want to express here is that, in my mind, regarding this specific sin, I always saw myself as defeated before the battle even began. No matter how much I tried to fight it, I believed that if a strong enough urge came or if I had access to an unfiltered device, I would inevitably give in.)

But thanks to this forum, I realized that I am not alone in this battle. There are other Jews around the world who go through the same struggle and, like me, sincerely want to break free from it. And there are others who have already succeeded.

Thanks to the love and kindness of these people, I have regained hope.
Thanks to them, I have regained pride in myself.
Thanks to them, and with hachem help, this morning, I have understood that we must enter the battle as winners, like many other mitzvot that we fulfill every day.not as losers, against the Yetzer Hara.

 We are heroes. Let’s never let the Yetzer Hara convince us otherwise.

88... I remember thinking to myself a long while back that I would give $100,000 to become and stay sober - so why am I so worried when there is no money? I can still dance that I am sober for so long!!

My filter makes my work very hard - the "technology" category is blocked because i managed, in my desperation, to figure out every way around until I blocked it. (I could have been a research consultant to filters to find out every possible loophole). Now I can only access with my wife's passcode, and due to her health situation it can take days until we can call in together to the filter to get a site whitelisted.  But I know with clarity that the frustration is much much better than the alternative.

Great Vayimaen video today - Bandits in Baghdad - Hashem will give it all back to me and more, the same pleasure I tried accessing b'issur and had to block, will come to me b'heter in sobriety.  If it seems harder to make money the "normal" way - Hashem will provide it another way.

Go figure. An addict has big dreams of accomplishing good and bringing morality to the world and big projects on the table - and is broke, has a sick wife, five kids, and a host of other issues to work through.

Hashem has interesting ways...

@thegrave - appreciate the encouragement. Amen, same to you!

continuing where I left off:
So if I'm not that Frum, and words like "D'veykus, Kedusha, Gehinom, Gan Eden, Ratzon Hashem etc," are not in my motivational toolbox, why exactly do I want to quit P&M? Here are my main reasons:

1) I have an obligation to my wife to make her feel cherished and loved as much as possible. The attention and sexual energy that I waste on fantasies come at her expense

2) I have an obligation to my children to model and convey to them a healthy sexual ethic. When it comes time to have the talk about "the birds and the bees" with my kids, I need to be able to discuss the issues candidly and without shame. 

3) I need to be a master of myself and make decisions rationally, not impulsively. Being a slave to anything, especially to my base desires, is antithetical to that goal.

4) I need to stop before I hit rock bottom. I have seen my P usage intensify over the years. Like any drug addiction, I developed a tolerance. Now I need a higher dose than previously in order to get the same stimulus. There are enough stories of shattered marriages, families and lives by people whose addiction led them to dark places

5) On a related note, it is not only the intensive quality of the P that has increased, but also the craving for it, leading me to use at times that are physically dangerous. I'm embarrassed to admit that I have engaged in P/M while driving on occasion.
(This is a really dumb idea; don't try it at home. I'm glad I didn't get into a car accident, that would be hard to explain to the insurance company)

Anyway, Onwards and Upwards. Its Time2Win.
Have a good shabbos everyone

I was prompted to do some thinking on the significance of the 90 day challenge. this is what I came up with

The assertion that it takes 90 days to break an addictive pattern is a concept often referenced in addiction recovery discussions, though individual experiences can vary. This idea is supported by research indicating that approximately three months of abstinence can lead to significant neurological changes, aiding in overcoming addictive behaviors.

Scientific Insights:

• Brain Recovery Timeline: Studies have shown that after about 90 days of continuous abstinence, the brain begins to reset its reward system, reducing cravings and improving decision-making processes. This period allows the brain's prefrontal cortex, responsible for judgment and impulse control, to recover from the impairments caused by substance use

לכאורה masturbating is divided between 2 motivations
With and without finish
for some the main thing is the finish, for others [those complaining of PE...] the masturbation itself is a significant part too

If the idea is to abstain from the addictive behaviour - it seems that the masturbation itself is addictive [even if there would be no issur at all to do so]
Therefore if one wants to do the 90 day and see a toeles from it 
one should first identify what gives him dophine - and abstain from that - not just mz"l 

ע"כ יש לעיין בהגדרה זו:

What constitutes a "Fall" to require restarting the count?
There are "slips" and there are "falls". "Slips" do not require restarting the count. "Falls" do require restarting.
A "Fall" is one of the following things:

1. Intentional masturbation (with finish)