Thanks!! I appreicate the opportunity to broach opinions in a respecrful way!! We can agree to disagree. I might be wrong, I was just saying my opinion based on my own experiece and what I have seen on my recovery journey. 
I will just expand a little on my previous post to clarify the point I was making. Overall there is a vibe I personally sense on the forum that resonates through many posts along the lines of "don't assume you're an addict, many people just struggle and are not addicts and can use other tools". While I definitely recognize that this without a doubt is true for some members of GYE, there is also a portion of members of GYE that are lost, are addicts and when they read these posts get the sense "ok i just have to continue fighting", "get a better filter" "speak to a Rav", "be more accountable" etc. etc. And unfortunately in almost all sceanrios these routes will NOT work for someone who has an addiction. This is why to me it's risky posting anything that can possibly deter someone who truly needs it from entering a 12 step recovery program...

clean830 wrote on 31 Jan 2022 19:24:

thank you for this; i don't agree, but that's fine.

Trouble wrote on 31 Jan 2022 17:57:

Good point about speaking to someone to receive some direction. However, there is always a risk losing the "rock bottom" feel an addict feels that generally is the only motivation to get into program and really begin hard recovery work. To a true addict "pushing off" going to an SA meeting, in order to first speak to a mentor/rabbi teacher etc. can be the difference between getting into recovery or not. Someone who senses he's an addict and SA will help him loses nothing by getting into a meeting ASAP. If after going to a few meetings he realizes it doesn't resonate with him and he feels he's not an "addict", and needs to choose a different path for recovery in this area, great. He hasn't lost anything by attending a few meetings. But, in contrast if he is an addict and he pushes off getting into the program that can literally be the difference between beginning a journey of recovery or not!!

clean830 wrote on 31 Jan 2022 17:37:

hi from me; i have seen most of your posts, and my suggestion would be to speak with someone real first (before sa). perhaps hhm, maybe a mentor/rebbe or teacher. seems that you need a talk first. reliance on filters is not for everyone, and although you haven't perfected all your devices - if any, the first step, i think, would be for some real accountability. i'm not against sa; i have been there, but i think there may be other second first steps for you.

regional office for the pacific islands region, including tonga, nauru and tuvalu, exploring the affects of climate change on folks with sexual addictions

DavidT wrote on 30 Jan 2022 15:10:

Thank you david for your recomendation.
I think I need the SA meetings in person because of my addiction level and the length of my struggle.
But I will give it it a shot for the time being until I can start meetings  in person.
I looked it up. It looks really  interesting.

Premise

EasyPeasy is an adaptation of Allan Carr's Easyway to Quit Smoking. The basic premise of the book is that it takes your mindset from being one of a user that enjoys porn (or Youtube, IG, Tiktok, etc.) and sees quitting as something hard to do, to a non-user that sees no benefit in using porn and sees quitting as the most natural thing in the world to do. You probably don't do hard drugs like heroine. If you read the book, you'll see porn like heroine: something that only harms you and provides no benefit, and is therefore very easy to not consume. That's why it's called EasyPeasy: because quitting is easy! You'll want to read the book, but here are some of the basic ideas of the book:

7 Core Ideas of the Book

1. You want to quit porn. Don’t forget this. You decided to escape the trap once and for all. Taking "one quick peek" will only suck you back in. This might seem tempting, except...

2. The trap has no benefit to it. There is no advantage to porn. You might think that it helps you release, escape, deal with stress, etc. But in all of these cases, remember that the non-addict deals with these daily struggles of life better than an addict. Your addiction will only make and keep things worse! Porn doesn't relieve stress – it creates stress!

3. Withdrawal symptoms are mild. Remember, it is your fear of withdrawal symptoms that keeps you hooked. It’s what makes you relapse. It’s what makes you have “just one peek.” But there is nothing to fear at all! The withdrawal symptoms are mild at best. You’ve gone through them countless times whether it be due to friends, family, school, or work. Biologically, there is nothing to fear. You won’t explode.

4. The real issue is psychological. It is the fear. It is the crutch that tells you that porn addiction will help you find fulfillment. It will help you fill the void of your life. It will do no such thing. If anything, it created the void in the first place. The larger fact is that you must know where these false beliefs came from. Primarily from:

5. Over a lifetime of looking at media, social media, friends, society, etc., you’ve been fed the lie that sex is the most important thing in the world. They tell you that without sex, you are incomplete. That you must always be seeking sex. That if you don’t, you’re a loser. Start looking out for these things. Don’t fear missing out on these delusions again. They are all lies anyways! They are told by people to make you feeling less worthy and hooked so that you can stay addicted to their apps, their products and services, and buy whatever they’re selling them.

6. You’ve been "brainwashed" over a lifetime. So reversing the lies will take some time. Affirm to yourself everyday about the truths you’ve uncovered in this book. Tell yourself how excited you are to become free from the porn trap. How great it feels to let the poison out. How life gets better when you’re a non-addict. You cannot passively do this. You must actively seek out positive messages and tell them to yourself. Please please please do this! Otherwise, you might slip up again.

7. In case you slip up, don’t beat yourself up! Remember, that is part of the trap. Get back up, re-read the book, and try again. The brainwashing takes time to reverse. Affirm the truth to yourself: you weren't happy being a user. That's why you quit!

Emergency Reminder:
If you’re feeling “on edge” with withdrawal and want to take “just one peek”, remember:

Change the meaning of what you’re feeling. Don’t think that your body is asking for its fix, instead, tell yourself: “Wow! This is how it feels like when the poison drains out of me!” Or think, "That isn't a real urge, because I don't actually want porn anymore, now that I've read the book. That's a withdrawal urge! It's a sign of my brain and body becoming more healthy!"

Change the meaning of what you’re feeling and withdrawals will be easily overcome. You’re not fighting (i.e. using your willpower). You are changing the meaning!

Coda
These notes were adapted from notes I found elsewhere on the book. I hope this at least gives you an idea of what the book is about, as well as giving you some notes to refer back to from time to time or in a moment of forgetfulness of your decision to quit (i.e., an urge). These notes are definitely not a substitute for reading (or listening to, there's an audiobook linked in the pdf!) the book. Thanks and good luck, although you don't really need luck, you just need about 5 hours of time to read the book. If you have a commute, you could easily listen to the audiobook over a few days. Don't think about quitting before reading the book, this will be a barrier to starting. Just think "I don't have to quit at all, I'm just reading this book because I'm an intellectually curious person who enjoys reading new things!" This will make it easier to get started. You might want to print out the PDF so you can read it in a less distracted environment than a screen. Bathroom time is your friend in this regard, I find I do my best thinking on the loo.

Please post any questions or insights in the thread, so others may benefit. Thank you!

Trouble wrote on 28 Jan 2022 14:52:

Thanks! 

I meant that different methods work for different people, and there are other methods that don't rely on insisting that there is no need. For example, with other urge surfing, you don't judge the urge, you just try to observe and describe the sensations to yourself, and watch it increase/decrease until it's gone. The same goes with the Unhooking (defusion) technique, where you recognize that you can experience many different feelings, thoughts, and sensations at the same time, but that you can "detach" from them (ואכמ"ל), and follow your values. The same goes with the SOBER technique (Stop, Observe, Breath, Expand, and Respond), where you are non-judgmental regarding the Urge, but still get in touch with your values, and the big picture, before deciding what to do. 

---


I'd also add, that yes it will get stronger in the short term, but in the long run, when you don't act on the urges, the urges will get weaker and less frequent. 

See המספיק לעובדי ה' (לבן הרמב"ם) פרק י:

וכן בעל אשה יצטער אם יתאחר משגלו אפילו שבוע אחד, ואלו הרוק שהזנות אסורה עליו וכן מי שנוסע רחוק מביתו לא יצטערו אפילו יתאחר שנה תמימה, וכל זה מכח ההרגל. ועיניך הרואות כי הצם הרבה ימים רצופים יתענה ברעב ביומו הראשון יותר משיתענה ביום השני, ובשני יותר מבשלישי, עד שיעשה לו הצום טבע שני ולא יהא חושש לו, כדרך מי שרגיל בתעניות. (ובהערות המהדיר: וכן בסנהדרין ק"ז איתא אבר קטן יש באדם משביעו רעב ומרעיבו שבע. ובשו"ע ר"מ א כתוב, "אך יותר טוב היה לו לדחות את יצרו ולכבוש אותו כי אבר קטן וכו' עיי"ש).

Or to quote a contemporary author:

"Given that most clients believe that unless they satisfy their cravings (strong desire or appetite for drug effects) by giving in to their urges (intent to use), the craving will continue to build until they feel "wiped out" by the increased intensity of their drug appetites. By giving in and using when the urge is at its peak, clients experience major negative reinforcement (relief from craving or unpleasant withdrawal symptoms), which strengthens their attachment to the addictive substance or activity."
(Overcoming Your Alcohol or Drug Problem: Effective Recovery Strategies Therapist Guide)

In other words, over time, the less you masturbate, the less intense the urges will be.

MenachemGYE wrote on 28 Jan 2022 02:31:

good stuff once again, but i'd like to point out a distinction between what you are saying and to what reb hhm says: you say that it's not me, it's the urge and experience; he says that you don't need sex and you don't need to masturbate, for that urge is not real. the (solid) ideas are similar but not identical. 

hence, regarding brainwashing: when one feels the need urge to masturbate, if you tell him: hey, that urge is not real, you don't really have to do this right now, that is a type of brainwashing, for he actually does wanna do it right now, and the need/urge is getting stronger (and certainly cut out the baloney that there is no such thing as getting stronger, for it's like all other physical wants), but rather you should say (and it might not work, but it's the truth): i understand that you are experiencing a strong urge right now, and if you let it subside it may come back stronger, but nevertheless, the real you does not want this, for you wrote down or told yourself/others what your true values are, and this does not shtim with that, so let's see if we can peel that outer layer away and get back to the core.

will it work? sometimes.

MenachemGYE wrote on 28 Jan 2022 02:59:

Thank you. Yes. Precisely.

I have read a lot (I can't find where right now, but this is a key point in SMART recovery) about how the key to stopping addiction is changing the musts, needs, shoulds in our life to I want, I would like, I will be uncomfortable if I don't etc. While that isn't the main point of the above discussion, it highlights that one of the key drivers to why people act in self-destructive ways is because the voice within says "I need it", and that usually trumps "it's bad for me". It doesn't mean I think I'll die without it, there are many things that I would describe as a need, but I can survive without. 

Furthermore, in fighting the YH, you need to fight on his level, on his terms. The YH operates in the present, what I need and want now, and he blinds us to any concern for the future, so Schar V'onesh, wrecking your marriage, destroying your relationships, etc. can all be disregarded when in the drunken-stupor that the YH places us in. You need to address his argument that "You need this, and you need it now." Like an itch that "screams" to be scratched, it's not enough to say, but it will bleed, make it worse, that will only help you to white-knuckle it, and most likely cave eventually, you need to tell yourself it's ok to live with the uncomfortable feeling of having an itch, I can handle it. Not sure, it I've added anything here or just said the same thing from another angle, but perhaps it strikes someone a little differently.

@Bego, I think there's part of your argument that I'm not understanding. What do you mean by "since you failed, it must be the urge was real, and you had to do it"? Just because you failed doesn't indicate you were compelled to fail. Rather, it means you fell for it this time, but you didn't have to. It doesn't show that the urge has power. It shows that we thought it had power, so we caved.

Trouble wrote on 25 Jan 2022 14:32:

The test to know what you "truly want" is to ask yourself - when you're mind is clear - what your values are. Values can change over months or years, but not moment to moment. When we experience an urge to act against our values, which of those desires is more "real"? Which is internal, and which is external? Which could be considered "me", and which is just a fleeting experience? 

Since the 80s it's been standard to teach recovering addicts to consider their urges as temporary "experiences" and externalize them. The same approach is used in cutting-edge therapies today. 

To keep religion out of this, let's use an example of drinking. If I am happily drinking, and have no problem with it, my urges and your values perfectly align, and my urge reflects what I truly want. But when I've realized that drinking goes against my values, it makes perfect sense to treat the urge as an "experience", and to remind myself that it's not "me". Why would that be brainwashing? In fact, it's the urge - dopamine release in the reward pathway - that is brainwashing me. It's disguising itself as my true desire, when in fact I want the opposite.   

On top of that, it can help to remind me that unlike urges to eat or sleep, which will come back to haunt me if I just try "breath thru it" for too long, sexual urges are in a wholly different category. Nothing at all will happen if I don't give in, and after a while, I'll adjust to it. 

Overall, whether you like the term "real" or not, the idea itself is solid.

Trouble wrote on 26 Jan 2022 14:30:

Thanks.
I will as well go to sa without my wife knowing

Lost In Search wrote on 26 Jan 2022 11:55:

i went to sa w/o my wife knowing.

I have a dilemma
I spoke to dov, who runs the sa meetings for gye and he recommended that I start sa meetings in person.
That is very hard for me. My wife doesnt know about my struggle and if I go to sa then she will probally find out.
If I don't go I will probally stay an addict.
I am a private and shy person by nature so going there is hard.

#makelifegreatagain wrote on 14 Oct 2021 15:58:

Uhm, I'm probably about 20% through reading the EasyPeasy book.

Here's my take so far.

It has a couple of very valid pointers that it makes near the beginning of the book.  These are pointers that (if valid) are chiddushim to someone who has been through the 12 step program.

After those couple of pointers, the book seems to be a long drag of repetition.  Even worse, the book is probably the most poorly written thing I have ever attempted to read.  About 50% of the time I can't even figure out the author's intention.  The 50% that I can understand, mostly I cannot relate to.  

I was really excited about this method in the beginning though.

Who continues to vouch for EasyPeasy?  Should I continue to read it?  It's starting to feel like a waste of time.

Please let me know what you think.  I'm not trying to offend anyone here.  Just trying to figure things out.  Please try not to make a grand ole GYE boxing match.

Thanks.

sleepy wrote on 25 Jan 2022 23:34:

Nothing wrong with making it exciting as long as it is also/mainly for the sake of connection with partner. But in a תקופה where I am not doing well in עניני קדושה and depend on it purely because of my תאוה then it does take control of my life. The entire day my mind can be thinking of how to make it super exciting. Can't focus on putting children to bed calmly. Can't do anything else properly - just thinking of getting down to business... And if she is not interested then I would get very frustrated and angry and upset.
Does anyone relate? Doesn't it control your life sometimes?