Torah22 wrote on 06 Feb 2022 12:58:

I recommend Rav Moshe Weinberger Chaburah Yosef Hatzadik;
Shiur 100 - Is it possible to fix 
Shiurim 101 - 107 - Laws of Shmiras Habris
Shiurim 108 - 110 - Tikkunim of Shmiras Habris
www.yutorah.org/search/?s=chaburas+yosef&sort=1

Torah22 wrote on 06 Feb 2022 12:58:

Check out the Shiurim in the audio library, many of which deal with teshuva www.guardyoureyes.com/articles/shiurim

Hi!

I haven't seen much in this topic and I wanted some guidance.

I have about a fifteen year history of struggling with zera levatolo. There were times where I was properly addicted and times where I came "out" of it but fell occasionally. 

Bh I have been totally clean for quite a bit of time (6months-a year) although I struggle with shmiras einayim like everyone else. 

Whilst I'm in general very happy with myself I cannot get rid of the guilt of my past. I'm constantly thinking that whatever I do is not really worth it because I'm going to go to hell for all those aveiros. I'm desperate to speak to a gadol for practical advice for how to be מכפר for those aveiros but never find the opportunity. This really weighs me down no matter how well in doing. I feel like it's one of those עבירות  that one can't be מכפר for... Does anyone else share these struggles?

I really find it hard to grow and shteig with all this guilt shooting on my head...

Pls pls help!

This is an amazing story and so impressive that were you able to make a 180 turnaround.  What I'm struggling to understand was how you were able to stop porn cold turkey  after you've been seriously addicted to it for 25 years?  can you elaborate more on your recovery?  given that you had reached rock bottom and were able to pull yourself up, I'm sure you have some much to give over to the GYE chevra here. 

Some people who suffer from depression & anxiety are often more prone to addictive behaviors. They use the acting out to "self-sooth" feelings of inadequacy, and to escape from themselves and from the harsh world around them.
Childhood trauma of one sort or another is evident in the lives of many sex addicts if they look carefully enough. Many kinds of stressful or frightening experiences can become sexualized along the way, leading to problems later on. And yet whether or not there is lasting damage depends on a myriad of factors such as the age of the child & their temperament.

While the male drive/lust is a huge factor I think many of us realize a lot of issues correlate/lead to SA - depression, anxiety, ADHD, self esteem  etc

My family are survivors and it definitely had a traumatic impact on my upbringing. My two surviving grandparents would tell me very scary bed time stories about their experiences when I was very young and I still sometimes get nightmares from them. Obviously they meant well and this is not Chas veshalom meant to attack them (they are my heroes) but what occurred did inadvertently contribute to (unrelated SA?) anxiety I still have today.

My brother has SA and even was addicted to same exact genre of porn i was. B'h we had very healthy childhood upbringing besides the holocaust stuff- no abuse etc.

I assume many people here are children or grandchildren of survivors - my question is is this a factor behind SA? Is there any research on this topic? If you can soothe trauma here would it help with these issues?

I want to give my full background but the short version is i am yeshivish (not super "greasy" but to keep it simple thats how i identify hashkofically) married for 16 years and have 5 wonderful kids - life is great - i have a good parnossah, learn every morning and nothing to complain about - my big issue was watching hardcore porn and i did not like my wife, sometimes felt almost a small level of hate - i recently quit porn and my life is going amazing - this feels like shannah rishonah i never really had - the passion with my wife is amazing - my wife notices a complete 180 although she is not sure why and unfortunately i cant give the full answer anytime soon. 
Longer version

I am 38 years old - i come from a very baalabitsh background (although now identify more to "the right") and at age 12 i discovered porn - a few weeks later my rebbe told me about shmiryas einayim and masturbation and how bad it qas - i felt terrible but it was too late as i became addicted.

Eventually i felt so bad i couldnt stop masturbating that i started to stop doing other mitzvas - afterall if i just did the worst sin in the world how could i go and daven 5 minutes later - i would be such a hypocrite! I went OTD and had girlfriends in HS and non shomer negiah stuff but never had relations pre marriage.
B'h I was able to develop a more mature view after i left HS and become a serious learner and tried to do mitzvos but it still killed me inside as i could not stop my addiction - at age 22 I got married to a wonderful girl who was from a similar background - she grew up baalabatish but became more  yeshivish like most of her siblings - she though never struggled with these issues and has been a good Bais Yaakov girl her whole life. I learned in kollel the first few years and now work.

After i got married and could not stop my urges i started to do bad things -not limited to masturbation- i started to chat with frum married and divorced ladies as i felt distant from my wife and that these women could relate (as opposed to goyim or single girls)- i met up a few times - b'h i never went the full way but i did things which were assur and stabbed my wife in the back- i realized how dangerous this was getting and made a vow to seriously follow all halachas about negiah and yichud etc even though i could not stop watching porn and shmeriyas einayaim - that was a bit over 10 years ago and b'h have been very careful since then to stay away from getting to close with women such as friends wives as i dont trust myself around them. Chazal are very smart in realizing that no matter how frum someone is they can slip if they are not careful and especially in this area you need many fences. Many people still dont get this concept but when you unfortunately read news about scandals, affairs of some very frum yidden you start to understand it better.

Until a few months ago i was addicted to hardcore porn - i work from a local office i rent and would sometimes watch porn for 3 hours a day.

Eventually i found GYE i never followed their program but read a letter from an ex wife and her husband sounded so much like me i felt shocked - i spent the next few days abstaining from heayy porn and it totally changed my brain - even though i could not stop masturbating at the time my mind healed - prior to that i thought i had serious issues - i have a brother who i caught several times looking at hardcore porn similiar to type i was addicted to so i thought i had genetic defect which made me prone to porn addiction

Anyway after quitting porn i reflected on my 15 years of marriage and was very sad - for many years i totally neglected my wifes needs - i would make it obvious i didnt like talking to her - and would make her feel bad anytime she needed my help - this even excludes the pain i caused by cheating which she does not know about but makes me feel horrible even today.

She caught me watching porn about 7 years ago and was devastated - i realized it was bad but she viewed it more akin to actual affair/cheating -  but despite some counselling, speaking to our rov etc i was not able to quit so just became more careful. She still has not held that against me and always wanted a good marriage.

After i quit porn i realized all the issues i thought my wife had were mostly my fault - ie every time i talked to her she would bring up stressful topics - i could not understand why the few times i actually talked to her she would make it uncomfortable - then i realized women like to test men and also i never talked to my wife so of course she was not in the best mood when i did - another example while not absolving her ands sher should for health reasons my wife gained a lot of weight - i would tell myself she is making herself ugly so its "forcing" me to look at porn - that is totally false - i had these issues for 10 YEARS before we even met - if anything she gained weight because i never spent time with her or complimented her when she tried to get dressed up so why did she need to look good in that case?

In short as i felt bad i also gained new appreciation for my wife - the weight still bothers me and i plan to address at a later date but its not a big deal - i realized now that i dont constantly check out other women or inappropriate pitcutes that my wife is pretty even if she should lose 50 (or probably more like 70-80) pounds - i have spent the past few months spending a lot of time and giving her the affection she deserves and i am not referring primarily to relations but talking, spending time, showing i care. I used to dislike spending time with my wife as she irritated me but did it ocassionally as i viewed her almsot as a nebech case. Now i really enjoy talking - its like i have a new best friend/soulmate. B'h my wife has been super receptive and has not held my past against me. 

I was even contemplating divorce recently although never mentioned that to my wife. In hindsight i was an idiot and my wife was the classic neglected wife who was at risk of an affair - i highly doubt she ever did unlike me- she has a good work environment and is super tznius, doesnt schmooze with guys - but my actions are the type which create these risks - for a while i am embarrassed to say i kinda hoped she would so i could havr grounds for divroce - i was dumb for many reasons including the fact that even if i got re-married to the most beautiful and thin woman out there i would have had same exact issues i did several months ago.

That has all changed now - I feel so happy now - my life was going good for years but i always felt very lonely as i didnt have connection to my wife (and bad for living my "secret life")- now i do and i feel very complete.


First off i want to say despite the seriousness of the sin of masturbation and porn it is NOT helpful to make people feel bad - i have spoken to other guys (both married and single) and they have same issue - i get the sense this causes many teen boys to go OTD like myself- Hashem always wants you to do teshuva - even if you slip dont skip seder 10 minutes later - the yetzer horah wants you to chuck it all - you are not a hypocrite if you do - you are trying to overcome your serious issues - this is a talk i plan to emphasis to my son as he reaches 12 soon -  its something i feel VERY strongly about 

Second if i can do it so can you! - i did horrible degusting things i would not like to discuss here - i thought i had a mental defect but my life has turned around SO quickly since i quit porn i am shocked - i also dont feel urges to watch porn - while masturbation is still something i am struggling with but b'h on huge strides, i dont miss porn - it destroyed my life for 25 YEARS - i dont feel i am missing anything or suffering by not watching (this was always a deep subconcious fear - i couldnt live with constant urges to watch so whats the point of quitting - i was very wrong while i need to constantly be on guard - halacha aside for a minute - i really dont miss it now that i see how happy i am without it) - i really wish someone had taken a positive approach (or i had myself) much earlier in my life i could have saved myself (and more importantly my wife and even children/friends/parents/siblings) a lot of suffering. I had no idea how much this was impacted my relationship with everyone as i spent so much time on my computer and if i couldnt constantly fulfill my urges i got irritated at people.

If i can help with anything let me know - you can message me anytime - i have spread a lot of filth in the world - so if i can help others by telling them what helped me i feel an obligation. And ideally if i can help improve their marriages/lives of families it would make me ecstatic.

Thanks everyone and good luck!

I never really planned on making it this far. I guess I thought once I hit 90 I proved to myself it was possible and then I can fall and get back again or something on those lines. But its crazy that since I joined GYE I think I only fell maybe 5 or 6 times and only one of those times was after I started posting.

The time really flew by though. I still remember the first few days of my streak vividly, fighting tooth and nail to stay clean. Next thing I know I blink and I've been clean for over a year and P and M are barely a thought. (To clarify it is sometimes a thought. But not often, and when it is a thought its not so strong.) Hopefully in a few years when I get married that should diminish even more as I use the taivas for what they're meant for.

I imagine there's a lot of guys out there like me- bachurim in yeshiva not super addicted to hard pornography but get triggered by youtube, images, etc. And have been struggling for a while. 

I dont have experience of the post yeshiva life but id assume its easier to quit while in yeshiva because you spend almost the whole day learning and keeping yourself busy. For me I kind of took the concept that I wanted to be free for sure before marriage and really used that as motivation to say if I dont become free now when will I? It will only become more difficult as time goes on and I have more inappropriate stuff in my mind. 

Thats not to say its impossible to quit when one is older bit in the view of this author its easier when young.

So for all those yeshiva guys out there - the time is now! This won't dissappear magically you have to work on it and put in the effort! Get rid of the triggers for real this time, learn some sefarim about the issues, post like your life depends on it (it might), or do whatever works for you. Just make sure you tackle this now and dont let it spiral out of control.

For me I realay just broke free due to constant posting and davening and a lot of willpower. I happen to have a lot of willpower but I'm sure some guys out there who are still young might be similar. 

I also highly recommend reading a little bit of something on this topic every single day, whether that's the battle of the generation (i used a hard copy and read in bed, you can buy on Amazon for about 10 dollars) or zos brisi or something similar.

If anyone wants to get in touch with me my email is evedhashem1836@gmail.com I'd be more than happy to do my best to help aanyone. 

Wishing all much hatzlocha!

clean830 wrote on 01 Feb 2022 17:58:

F2F does have a greater overall emphasis on the internal power of individuals compared to the 12-steps. It's also written for a wide audience and doesn't include labels like "addicts". But overall the therapies upon which F2F is based are often used by professionals to treat addiction in conjunction with 12-step work. 

clean830 wrote on 01 Feb 2022 17:58:

We did...... for years.

wilnevergiveup wrote on 01 Feb 2022 14:37:

I am not familiar with the F2F program so can't comment if it can be used in conjunction with attending meetings for SA; however, "admitting powerlesness" over your addiction is one of the absolute core principles and foundations of any 12 step program. If F2F does not work with an admission of powerlesness, and instead allows a person to use tools to "overcome" by himself his addiction, that is not "one area" in which they differ, that is completely not compatible with with 12 steps & SA. You cannot work a 12 step program without an admission of powerlesness.

Hakolhevel wrote on 01 Feb 2022 01:24:

What about the F2F program can an addict not do?

I am not saying that it will work instead of SA but what's in there that's a contradiction to SA? (Aside from declaring powerlessness)

On the contrary, many of the stuff are things that you will end up doing in SA anyways. It will not be enough for a real addict but I can't see how it would hurt, and I would think he can only benefit from it.

No one said they are the same program, they are actually quite different but what's wrong with an addict hanging out on the F2F program to get a head start on his "step one"?

Human being wrote on 01 Feb 2022 08:04:

just remember that the best part is that your no longer an addict not the "3 good rolls of sushi" the biggest and bet reward is the fact that your free!!!!! your awesome keep it up!!!!

Trouble wrote on 31 Jan 2022 17:57:

Thanks everyone for their suggestions.
For me personally I feel that I need something more than a rebbe, I have been speaking to my rebbeim all my life and very open about my struggle and they were very understanding and helpfull but they always focused on the ruchniyus side of it, in my case I don't look at it like a ruchniyus battle because I consider myself to be a baal bitochon and yiras shomayim I feel it more to be an emotional and addiction problem.
In my case I feel that either SA in person or on the phone is the best option.
It happens to be that I have been on Dov's phone line around 5 years ago for a few weeks but then I stopped calling in because I didn't feel that got anything out of it. I'm not putting down his phone group it's just my personal expierience. I didn't feel any connection with anyone else on the phone line, to me it it sounded  more like a shiur and everyone listening in rather then it being a group call.
I spoke recently to dov and he thinks I should join SA in person.
For the time being I can not yet join a meeting without my wife realizing so I decided that it's not worth going if she will find out about it.
I would rather wait untill I can join without her knowing about it or maybe try again something on the phone.

wilnevergiveup wrote on 31 Jan 2022 05:53:

I dont really see that, unless it's a non-addict who is enjoying ideas from SA, but not really doing the 12 step program, same visa versa. But they are very different programs.