Zebj910 wrote on 24 Mar 2022 08:36:

All I can say is that we're here to share your intense pain. You are not alone. Not only will you not be punished, Hashem is crying along with you too.  
The Gemara in Sanhedrin elucidates a debate regarding the response of Hashem to a sinner, “קלני מראשי קלני מזרועי אם כן המקום מצטער על דמן של רשעים” Kallani, is translated as distressed. When we sin, Hashem is distressed and feels it the same way we do.

In regards to dealing with your struggle, I would advise that you have a conversation with our member "Hashem Help Me" who has helped many people and has experience in your unique situation, you can reach him at michelgelner@gmail.com 

Stay strong and connected - Hashem should be with you always!

Hashem Help Me wrote on 24 Mar 2022 11:14:

I agree but this is certainly not across the board. I won't talk for addicts but I can talk for guys who have emotional/mental health struggles. For us, being married, however wonderful it is, brings along with it the frustrations of feeling rejected among other negative feelings that are far worse when they are with someone who you give so much to and sacrifice so much for. These feelings can make the struggle to have those "other options" in order to feel safe and secure sexually.

Hi Zebj910,

Wow you shared an amazing journey with so much successes after soo long being in this addiction.

I can't give you precise advise but what I can only say is that the point is that it's a fight it's not easy if it was, it wouldn't be a big deal the entire topic.

That being said, the feelings and thoughts you have now, also make sense and would be hard to resist, instead think that "even" you fell, had these thoughts, and have fallen three times, etc. you are going to start again.

Much Hatzloche

Hi all,

So here is my story. I am a married modern orthodox man aged 26. I have been addicted to porn for as long as I can remember. Images, videos, stories, you name it I've seen it. I would watch on a regular basis, at least weekly, probably more often. I started the 90 day programme because this addiction was affecting every aspect of my life negatively, including and especially my relationship with my wife. I wanted to change , wanted to be in control of my desires and realised that this was a challenge that Hashem put in front of me so wanted to show him that I was mentally strong enough to come through it, to make both him and I proud. My days clean before falling were as follows: 53 day first time, then 14, 13, 8 , 25, 5, 71 , 202. My latest 202 run felt incredible, it felt like I had defeated my urges and taken control of my life, I was finally able to feel proud of myself - something I very rarely feel. I stopped looking at porn but also in general at other women/inappropriate TV shows etc etc. I felt like I would never return to porn. Yet yesterday my wife took a pregnancy test, it was negative, again. We have been trying for a while and I have reached a point where I am depressed, demotivated and anxious about being infertile and never having children. After that last test I felt anger at Hashem and sorry for myself - I have been doing so well, why is this happening to my wife and I? So I fell , 3 times in one day , having been clean for 202 days. I now feel devastated at what I have done, how could I be so weak? How could I give in to my urges at a time when I need Hashems help the most? Will I be punished because of my inability to resist? 

This is the first time in my life that I have posted on an Internet forum. But I honestly don't know what to do or think right now. Any advice? 

Approaching the end of day 2. I am pretty hopeful that I'll succeed to build up a long streak, or at least longer then I have at any point in recent months, as I have taken several steps to limit my access to arousing material. Additionally I am BH 20 days clean from porn. 

Had a pretty decent day, though I'm still struggling to wake up for minyan. Had a pretty satisfying learning seder, though it wasn't very long. When you focus and learn in a sing song, Gemara-as well as other limudim- become so much more enjoyable and invigorating.

I continue to find myself ogling almost every woman that enters my line of vision, mentally rating their attractiveness, imagining having sex with them, etc. I wonder when, if ever I'll be able to overcome that area of the struggle. It is incredibly frustrating, as I recommit myself to fighting this fight, at how very hard it is to avoid getting carried away with these thoughts, when triggers are literally everywhere, and the taiva remains as strong as ever, no matter how many times you actively resist it, and the thought of fighting sexual desire for my entire life is daunting, to put it mildly. It feels unfair that Hashem made us this way.

Been listening to a podcast about porn addiction that Rabbi YY Jacobson did with Eli Nash. It's very nice to see the issue being addressed and tackled in a public setting. It's like people are waking up to the issue. Hopefully with the increase in awareness in our communities will come more support and acceptance.

Koshereyes wrote on 21 Mar 2022 17:40:

Depression is something that should be discussed with a Doctor or therapist.

Even if it's not major , there is something called "Minor depressive disorder" which is very similar to major depressive disorder in the symptoms present. Generally, a person's mood is affected by thoughts and feelings of being sad or down on themselves or by a loss of interest in nearly all activities. People can experience ups and downs in their life everyday where an event, action, stress or many other factors can affect their feelings.

People who suffer from low self-esteem and/or depression are often more prone to addictive behaviors (be it alcohol, drugs, or lust). We use the addiction to "self-sooth" feelings of inadequacy, and to escape from ourselves and from the harsh world around us.

Also, "low self-esteem" is - in itself - a form of addiction as well. "It" wants us to believe we are un-likeable, incapable, and that no one really cares about us. This is a kind of self-defense mechanism that we often use as a sort-of shell to hide within. Instead of facing our real issues (which we find too hard to face), we use "low self-esteem" to say, "Heck, we aren't worth it anyway; no one cares anyway; we can't anyway". etc. etc... and we close up within ourselves.

Wow that makes me feel a whole lot better. That was one of the lowest points of my ordeal. 
Truthfully I thought I had my porn addiction in check, but recently, I’ve been very stressed. I’ve fell back in very deep. I’m so ready to call it quits on this. I want my life back. I want to enjoy life again. A crazy thought is that I’m not even sure Ive ever lived a day of true freedom. Scary.

HI

There is a lot to discus, but first welcome !! coming out from this isolation is major, that alone is it going to make easier.

I could see that the feeling of being alone makes you crazy, I wanna tell you you are not alone, you have a lot friends who UNDERSTAND YOU. this addiction is berried in yourself, it shleps you around, and you feel like not in control.
the double life makes you crazy !!! every day with your wife, when you would only know.... and when in that mindset its very hard to be in control of yourself.

So coming out and getting the right help is major, and you will be matzlich like Alot of guys here

Hatzlacha !!!!!!

Hi, 

This is my first time ever sharing with anyone my struggles with porn or any sexual endeavors.

I grew up with a TV in my house. It wasn’t in the living room, but my parents had one in their bedroom and my father had one in his office. I remember being exposed to MTV music videos as a young kid probably about 11 years old. That was the first time I remember being attracted to women. We were also subscribed to sports illustrated which has a swimsuit edition every year. My mom would throw it out as soon as it came, but I took it out of the garbage and keep it by my bed.(I can’t believe I’m writing this) 
This was just a start.
in high school my learning was never amazing, I was a floater. Not a troublemaker but never really excelled. Looking back, I’m very lucky that I held on and didn’t let myself go completely. All throughout high school I was always taking my parents and siblings old phones and watching porn. It totally affected my life. I never was able to apply myself. And I would never discuss with my parents. That would have been so embarrassing and shameful. Luckily, my rebbeim always liked me, I wasn’t a bad kid just lost. Btw, the yeshiva I was in was a top yeshiva in my hometown, so although I wasn’t learning, that did give me confidence somewhat. After 12th grade I felt I needed to leave that yeshiva, and applied to another top yeshiva. I literally couldn’t repeat one full shiur from that year but somehow I put something together to say on the farher. And I got accepted.(looking back, this is absolutely crazy). The bros medrash years were more of the same. I got my own smartphone now that a friend bought me. I was watching porn at least a few times a week. I stooped so low in brush medrash. On one occasion I went to a strip club, another time a massage parlor ( luckily nothing happened there, and remained a virgin) and on two other occasions went to strip clubs. Always hiding my yarmulke. My last zman in that yeshiva I learnt a bit how to focus and really excelled. But I felt like a vessel with a hole at the bottom, nothing stayed in. After 3 years I went to Israel. I had no idea where I was going when I went. I went knocking on a certain rosh yeshivas door. I had nothing to show for my learning. Luckily with intervention from others, I was accepted.( also known as a top yeshiva) I learnt well there but nothing stayed. ( and was addicted to porn)
it got so bad in Israel. One time, I was out myself late at night the streets were empty. I saw an Israeli girl walking towards me. I went to talk to her. I said let’s go have sex in a hotel room. It was sukkos, we went to a sukka and I asked if she can give me a bJ. (This is so terrible) she said no politely. But then she said we’ll take a taxi to her house and have sex there. I said ok. It was 300 shekel to her house. We arrived there( in the car we were touching etc.) I wanted to have sex, she said she’s just running into her house to get something and then we’ll have sex. She never came out. She used me for a free taxi. I felt like garbage. I took a bus back to yerushslayim, thinking that my dira mates will ask me where I was. I made up a story that I slept over at a friend in a different neighborhood.

my addiction has been prevalent ever since, now I’m married with kids. Bh my wife is amazing (she doesn’t know any of this) I can never tell her. 

I feel so alone. I really need help. 

Hi helpers 
I have a taphsic method set up with a friend who was with me in Yeshivah. This is the rules before a fall one has to walk min 15 min, and call each other or a mentor and say clearly i want to fall. If one falls without any of this its 70 pound for pm and £50 for m. If you do the above it is 35 for pm and 25 for m.
 However you fall you must stay up Thursday night after,or for one week straight be before berachos and stay right till the end.
The score is 18/3 to him ive lost so much money and been up so many weeks!!!!! Any tips how i can get better this deal??? Or help to stop!!!
Ive asked if I should cancel the deal for evidently im an addict and hes not. Daas tora said if I quit this guy will go rock bottom and thats no good and i should carry on!!!!
Please help im at home for a long time now,since my dad was niftar im in year and purim halochos in the first year not for me in israel ie music etc so im home already.
Plus there is so much hardships going on at home real tough pain and nisyanos and it makes it so hard!!!!!!!!!
there is so many upsetting things going on it makes the nisayon really tough please respond any tips and help
I NEED YOU ALLL

The Rizhiner explains that in one way, Purim is greater than Yom Kipur (Yom Ki- Purim. A day that is only "like" Purim, but not as great).

Yom Kippur atones for the Shavim (Those who return - i.e. repent), while Purim atones for the Shavim and the Aino Shavim (those who return and those who do not return).

What does it mean that Purim atones for the Aino Shavim, those who do not return?

The Rizhiner explains that Purim is a holy day for those who repent but yet continue to fall. They are labeled "Aino Shavim" because they continually have to face their struggle. Purim is all about seeing the light in an atmosphere of total darkness. It is about seeking out Hashem even if we feel we are in total darkness and may be feeling ashamed or low. Hashem says "Anochi Hastir Astir Panai ("I will utterly hide my face from you"), yet in that same pasuk is the remez (hint) to Esther , our salvation. Hashem rejoices when we reach out to him, and when we rejoice in our effort to seek Hashem out.

GYE is about seeking out the light in the dark world around us. It is about confronting struggles that have plagued us for years. We may have continued to fall many times, yet we - as a family - are seeking out the light to overcome our addictions. We are finding Hashem in the darkness. That is the true holy essence of Purim, and that is why Purim is the happiest day of the year.

Bilaam Harasha to Yosef Hatzaddik wrote on 16 Mar 2022 14:26:

You've used the 90 day tool correctly. The idea of it is to give you encouragement  and help you realize that you can have self control. So even if you only focused on one thing it still served its purpose and now you can start using it for the next level of the struggle. 
​Th ultimate goal should of course be to be fully clean of all addictive behaviors,  but the fact is that most people don't go there cold turkey overnight and having ups and down is very normal and part of successful recovery. 

For the record, GYE is not publicly owned, we do have rules and we do follow Daas Torah. 

The rules are posted here:
www.guardyoureyes.com/forum/rules
I'll paste some of them that relate to this conversation: 
2.) The GYE forum welcomes diverse viewpoints and creativity, provided that they are within (or at least not in conflict with) a Torah framework.
6.) Vulgar or blasphemous language, even if used in jest or "tongue in cheek," is forbidden on the GYE forum.  Furthermore, posts that are in poor taste may be edited or removed.
8.) Posts should not contain details (about personal struggles or otherwise) that others may find triggering, or contain links to websites that some may find triggering. If a member wants to submit a detailed post that may need to be edited, he should send it to the administrator or to the moderators as a private message.
10.) We encourage everyone to share what works for them, or how they view recovery. We ask, however, that no member "put down" or "prove wrong" or "discredit" any other approaches to recovery that may be working for other members. 


Here's a great post from  Oct 2009 

Dov, who is sober for close to 12 years in live SA 12-Step groups, discusses the difference between the GYE forum and live SA groups (where there are no rules about what people are allowed to say and/or share)... Dov writes:

When posting on GYE, the wide range of the crowd seeing the material pretty much ensures that some who read it will be hearing exactly what they do not need to hear. In contrast, in a closed fellowship/meeting there is more context.

In a recovery fellowship, we can share anything. From recounting my failures, expressing insane desires, stupid ideas, and say shekker. It is a share and we get the inside, out.

However, on GYE, there needs to be a degree of safety in the "shares". Who knows who is reading them? They may think this is what recovery is all about and get turned off (or "turned on", for that matter).

To me, it's like the Agudah shul where I live. You cannot go in there dressed in plaid and kahkies for shacharis on shabbos. You just can't. If you do once, nu. If you keep doing it something has to be wrong w/you, for everybody else is dressed yeshivish. It's weird. Not so in the chasidish/ba'al teshuvish shul next door. There you can dress any way you want and nobody will say boo. Others are there dressed weirdly too, some frum for many years. They simply do not care about external BS.

This bothered me once. Shouldn't a true Torah place (the Agudah shul, for example) be accepting of all yiddin? Well, it occurred to me that the yeshivish world is there mainly to uphold a standard. Even if it gets in the way of being sensitive and spiritual. They may feel that if they do not uphold this standard, who will? They do not feel as reb Shlomo C used to, that the deeper you bring jewish joy into the gutters with the yidden there, the better. Nu. To each his own, or as they say often in AA circles, "live and let live". I daven in the Agudah sometimes too, just to keep my head cool and remember that I am at best, a complete idiot compared to Hashem, who apparently wants an Agudah shul right here!

GYE is a bit of both those worlds. To some there, it is all about "what's right". It shows the way - and it has to. To others, it is mainly a safe place for addicts to go for help. Nu. It's tough to do that on an open forum. So I guess they have to edit some stuff to keep a balance.

willandtonya wrote on 02 Mar 2022 05:03:

I definitely agree, it is like a crutch or comfort. Thanks for sharing your insight in overcoming it.

Hello, I am TheNextStep. I have been a member here for a month and a half. I have tracked my 90 days progress (and falls) and listened to some audios, but have been nervous about posting on the forum. I haven't been able to get a streak longer than 8 days, and more recently, I've been struggling to get past 3 or 4, and so I decided now is the time to stop going in alone, and post. Well today, I am fighting those nerves, and am making this thread. As the saying goes, "The opposite of addiction is not sobriety, it’s connection."

My main goal is to post here every day or every second day, and give an update. I think a couple sentences or more should be fine, so that it isn't too daunting. I will also try to surf and post on the forum more often when I have time. Anyone interested can read my perhaps too-lengthy backstory below. If you skip it that's fine! Glad to finally join the forum and write this.

---[Lengthy Backstory]---

I found this website over a year ago, but didn't consider wasting seed to be a big issue back then, so I never joined. More recently I started thinking seriously about the sin of wasting seed, and also about marriage and started dating, and learned that in many ways the habit can harm a future marriage, since it does not just go away. Having a good future marriage, shalom bayis, etc, is my major motivation.

I joined the site near the end of January, and started using the 90 day counter. I thought, now that I'm serious, this counter should be enough and I should be able to just quit...with maybe one or two falls. Well, the first 3 days were easy, but shortly after 5 I found an excuse and had a fall. Then, 8 days (my best yet!), but again another fall. I had an idea that, if I continued falling, I would add more and more to my fight against it.

So I got into the audios, since I can listen at my job. I decided to save all of Rabbi Shafier's "The Fight" audios from this site, and pledged to listen to one a day at work. These were very helpful, but on weekends I didn't listen to any, and tended to have falls then.

Once I finished them, things started to get worse again. Now my streaks were down to 2-4 days. I decided something had to change, I can't just be passive listening to audio (or watching videos) about the issue. That is why I'm here looking to the forum for help. I changed my username to "TheNextStep" to sort of mark the change.

I think I've identified a major underlying issue for me, which is I am very good at rationalizing. For example, you'll notice in my story that I've focused on wasting seed. That was my only original goal, but for the first month or so I had convinced myself that I could still look at explicit material. Please don't make fun of me for this, I know the name of this website...haha. (I also found out today that "Intentionally viewing improper sites" counts as a fall, so I've been doing it wrong.) There was a second issue with...I'll try to put it vaguely...improper touching but not finishing. This is playing with fire for one, but it also undermines the purpose of the 90 day challenge, since I was still partially maintaining a bad habit. If you read all that, thank you.

---[End of Lengthy Backstory]---

Rationalizing that, since wasting seed was my only mission, therefore things adjacent to it (like seeking improper material) were acceptable as long as I didn't cross the line, was the major cause of my unfortunately short streaks. I will be entering this next step without holding those as acceptable, and properly counting seeking illicit sites as falls. Finally, I made a pledge with a friend not to do it for a week, and that I will reward myself with ice cream if I can reach that mark.

Tonight marks the first day clean with the new pledge. I will be back tomorrow and for the next few months to log updates. I am open to suggestions.
Thanks, TheNextStep.