Potential Solution 4: Stop being so ungrateful! You are healthy, have a happy marriage, kids, a roof over your head, the car you drive is not a yeshivishe clunker. You have plenty of food in the cupboards. You grew up in a two parent household. You have a job. You have so much blessing in your life!

Think about all the people who come from broken homes. Drug addicted, abusive parents. All the people who are childless. All the handicapped people or those struggling with chronic illness. Those who live in apartments their whole life because they can never afford a home. People who are unemployed. You have it so good. You should be happy

Response: I acknowledge all the blessings in my life. It certainly could have been much worse. However, I don’t find deep happiness in focusing on what I have. I only find real happiness in what I have given to others. And right now, that is not much, because I don't have much to give.

Hi Holy Chevra.

This is going to be a long post(s), but I need help. Please share your thoughts. 

I want to cut through all the superficialities and talk tachlis. Why do I turn to P and M? Because I have a crisis of meaning. I feel like my life doesn't really matter. There is a gaping hole deep in my soul, my consciousness that I can't seem to fill. All I can do is dull the gnawing emptiness with P & M. (In theory, it could be with drugs or alcohol, but P is free and more easily accessible and side effects are less noticeable.)

Some background:
The world can roughly be divided into 2 categories of people, the big people who make a real impact and the small people who just kind of well...live and die without really doing anything grand in between.

Examples of big people:
Philanthropists, Askanim, Scientists/Inventors who work on impactful technology, Marbitzei Torah (people who find inspiration in Torah and share it with others.) Rabbanim, Mechanchim, Authors, Comedians, Founders of successful non-profits, accomplished professionals (e.g. Doctors who make an impact, Buisness Leaders), Jewish celebrities (e.g. Singers who bring joy to the masses). etc. etc. In essence, people who have a big circle of positive influence.   

Examples of small people:
Adam the accountant. Ed the electrician. Joe the engineer. Carl the computer programmer. Me. In essence, people who have a small circle of positive influence.

To elaborate-It's not that my life is totally meaningless. After all, I have a wife and kids who love me and need me. I find meaning in supporting them and helping raise our children. I pay taxes and give some tzedakah (not as much as I wish I could), am a contributor to the economy/productive member of society. I give a smile to my coworkers, the cashiers at the store etc. and try to make the world a little better however I can. 

Nonetheless, despite my best efforts to be big and accomplish something great in life, I feel so, so small. And that is deeply, excruciatingly painful. So I turn to P to numb the pain. Until I can fill the hole in my heart, I will never achieve true sobriety from my addiction. (Not incidentally, this is the root cause of my fallout with frumkeit. I have a hard time believing in a God, or at least relating to a God, who created me to be an absolute nobody.)

There are a lot of wise people on this forum. Please share your thoughts. Hope to hear from you soon.

With thanks from the bottom of my heart,

Time2Win

Hey grouchy grump,
yeah cause listening to Matt Walsh trash the living daylights out of all us lazy 20 year old P addicts sure brings a true smile and grin to my face.... so then I try moving over to knowles who thinks he's way smarter then he is quoting his stupid philosophy that any good yeshiva bochur could be mechaven to or he goes on bouncing around his qoutes from CS louis..... time for Klavan oh woops he's a pervert and a meshumad but also really funny....... I guess I'm just stuck with good old Ben....... but then he starts chatting about movies I know nothing about or some controversy betwwen some Hollywood actors I know nothing about........so we try Verdict with Teddy and Ben Fergeson tooting their horn for being right about things every good yeshiva coffee room hoker knew months before they said it.......and don't even get me started on brainless Hannity.........

trying1989 wrote on 19 Feb 2025 15:48:

I'll share with you my thought process.
As long as it was non-jews sitting next to me and no jews in sight of my screen, I am at it. I figure, what's the worst? They'll see GYE and think that I'm an addicted perv. And then what? I'll never see them again! Still clean! 

(I have done this multiple times and no one has ever asked me about that strange website, either...not even when I was in the middle between two ladies sitting smushed up against myself...chances are they are too busy watching their own stuff to really care what you are doing...)

I focus on the fact that I'd rather have some stranger see which website I'm on now, better that then him seeing me watch "that" movie which might make him wonder why a guy dressed like a proudyungerman is watching that - cause he's gonna see my screen just like I see his...   Best case scenario - quite unlikely - they see GYE and find it for themselves to break free!

Hatzlacha, keep us posted, and, as always, KOMT!

jewizard21 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 19:50:

You know I don't live at Hogwarts... you can always just aparaite or even take a ride on a Hippogriff if you need to reach me.
You made a good point, and it's way above my paygrade at this point to know if I am a clinical addict or just a behavioral addict, but it is a helpful destinction. Than You

If you noticed the problem becoming easier when certain people arent around, i think that is half of the answer - the first step is to remove yourself from the situation that triggers you. Depending on how extreme, you may need to make extreme changes. consult with a rav always.

azivashacheit101 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 19:24:

I don't know what the exact translation for "addict" is, but I've seen some guys that were pretty deep in to this stuff (including risking significant things), who by the grace of G-d, with the help of friends, are clean for a long time. I've spoken to a few people who went to SA, but didn't find that it worked for them. When they reached out to folks here they found that they were more successful. I'm sure that there are many examples the other way around as well. There are pros and cons to every מהלך, and I'd hesitate to paint a broad statement of "the only way that will work is ......." Different ways work for different people. May Hashem guide you to the one that works best for you.

I think "chein" is something other than lust, just as someone enjoys a nice veiw of nature or a beautiful painting a person enjoys goodlooking people (though in a live person this is way more powerful). Then there is the addition of charm and personality which all adds to the attraction, I don't think this is necesarily lust as we can get to know these people and not think of them in a lustful way at all. (I do think our minds do tend to turn them into lustful attractions at times and with these people we are much more vulnerable of thinking about them lustfully, but that does not mean all of our obsessivness with them is lustful). If you keep your eyes open you will see that people with chein are treated better by everyone including by older Rabanim and Rebbeim. I don't belive they are all scuming to lust, I think this is just how our minds work. Chein becomes an addiction when it takes over our lives and we become completely obsessive and compulsed by it.
I'd love to hear and am open minded to all other opinions so anyone who has what to add please respond!
Thank You

If I may interject via flu powder,

    Most people on here at gye are not full blown addicts. There's a difference between a clinical addict and a behavioral addict. I'm no expert on how to distinguish who is or isn't but I would like to add my thoughts on what you've said before from a behavioral addicts point of view.

   It seems to me that you were craving attention (totally understandable) and in that you really were craving for a connection with others. I don't know your childhood but it could be from a lack of feeling a connection with those around you (parents, siblings, friends...) that you started trying to attract attention from others to fill the void. 

Eventually (remember this is speculation because i dont actually know your situation) when you discovered masturbation it temporarily filled that void. This is something that Lust tricks us into thinking. It makes us beleive that we are filling in the missing connection when in reality it's actually creating even more separation from others. 
.   Then we Bezras Hashem get married and find some of the void is gone. But unfortunately if this nisoyon hasn't been dealt with then it's a very temporary fix because while in the grasps of Lust we can never truly feel connected to those around us. We will just feel as if the people we love can never love us back because of our darkest secrets.

We can't expect to just wave a wand saying "acio connection" but we can cast a Petronus to fight off the dementors of Lust and the "Piertotum Locomotor" to further protect ourselves from evil. 


Keep on Trucking, One Day At A Time!!

azivashacheit101 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 19:06:

Well said, except I am not utterly hopeless. Only the meek and feeble are hopeless, for there is no good and evil, there is only power and those too weak to seek it...

Great characterization of addiction, we do not disagree. Yet I am still genuinely curious about how you are understanding what you have termed "chein addiction", if you are not understanding it as being under the umbrella of lust. You seem to be disagreeing with the way I see things for myself, and although you are totally justified in doing so, I still do not understand how you view it...it is not lust, than what is it?

trying23 wrote on 16 Feb 2025 00:39:

I don't know if you are an addict or not, but if you are then SA is the only option (and by far the quickest, happiest, and most fulfilling) therapy will not help for an addict. Going to an SA meeting can be terrifing but part of the whole point is to break down the ego and double life you lead which is the root cause of acting out. Going to meetings and being completely honest in public there will make you more humble and honest to yourself and those closest to you. You may want to join Dov's Desparados call first (contact GYE for info on that) Dov's calls will definetly make you more willing to go to in person meetings

Tom Riddle you have never and will never be the most powerful wizard of all time, Albus Dumbldore is and will always be more powerful than you!

The way I understand addiction, and please correct me if I am wrong, is that you are not addicted to lust, alcohol or narcotics. An addict is an ADDICT and the way his personal addiction manifests is in the way he acts out such as lust or alcohol. Acordingly even if he "white knuckles it" and does not act out in 90 or 180 days he will still be an addict and his addiction will manifest itself differently. This means he will probably just find another drug such as over use of computers or something else as he did not solve the root problem. An addict is lifeless and his only life comes from getting high by acting out. Even if he does not get hooked on another drug an addict will end up with a terrible life either miserable and deppressed or constantly lashing out in anger due to the fact that he does not have his prized drug e.g. lust available. The only way for an addict to solve his problem is by fixing the root issue and adressing the addiction itself. The way to due this is through the 12 step program with in person SA meetngs and working through the steps with a sponsor. The 12 step program is designed to completely upend the person and turn him into a new honest, humble, kind hearted, and giving person with a constant and growing connection with Hashem. I hope this is helpful, I am a beginer in all this and don't have too much to offer for more info please reach out to those in the 12 step program forum who have years of sobriety and work in the system.
All of the above is for those of us who can dare live with the creed of the Great Albus Dumbledore who belives that love and sacrafice is farmore powerful than than any force of dark magic, but for you Lord Voldemort you are lost in a cruel dark loveless world. All you know is power you are utterly hopeless and nothing will ever help you!

azivashacheit101 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 16:09:

The avatar image may be misleading…I am not Padfoot.

I am Lord Voldemort, all powerful, dangerously deadly and practically immortal. 

I hear what you are saying, and you mentioned this as well in your first post. I guess what I am trying to convey is that for me, although there was an emotional aspect to it as well, I do feel that in my case, it was rooted in lust. Everything else around that such as wanting to be friends with them, etc., was just a side thing, I think deep down I wanted nothing more than the fantasy. 

This can be the case for you too, but if you feel otherwise, that is absolutely and entirely possible! In that case, there may indeed be some other root cause that I am not familiar with, and will defer to other people. 

One question: you mentioned that you believe it is another “drug of the addiction” and not necessarily lust…To my understanding, lust addiction is all about being addicted to the “dopamine high” that lustful stuff causes. Can you elaborate what you mean? What other addiction or drug are you referring to? Am I misunderstanding you?

azivashacheit101 wrote on 17 Feb 2025 16:09:

Some say he died. Codswallop, in my opinion. Dunno if he had enough human left in him to die

Hey Padfoot, thanks for the response,
Though some of the time it was defenitly lustful I belive most of the time it wasn't (when I was young I at times davened to be friends w/ thease guys [until I matured a little and realized I should daven for ruchiyus] and I would never daven to gain lust). Thease days I notice the charm in people, but it doesn't take over my life (lust does). I think guys loose alot of the charm as they hit their twenties and guys more than a year or two younger than me never intrested me. I belive some of it is lust related but a big portion of it is a diifrent drug in the addiction and not lust.
I hope you stayed human long enough to read this...and now you can transform back into a dog and keep away from those dementors!