48. Once again I've come in content with a lot more feelings since I'm starting to think inwards and not outwards. I think I'm going to start a special thread for emotional venting when someone wants to emote instead of anything addictive sexually.

@tshuvah, you would think I would be (and I guess I am for having been able to stop the actual crazy, addictive, life-dominating aveira) but I still feel so empty and lost because what kind of a man am I really? I want to desire women like men are supposed to and I have always felt broken because of this. And I am still committing a terrible aveira by masturbating and wasting seed, so I feel like a failure anyway. So I go to Shul and I daven and try to be a good Jew but what difference does it make if I am still committing a terrible sin watching men have sex and masturbating? It took me 40 years to stop acting out with men. I don’t have 40 more years to overcome this. I hold off for awhile then I can’t help it and I give in.

Amazing story!
You have come very far, but you need to realize and accept that you are an addict, and therefore your brain is hardwired to crave this stuff. 
You need to start looking at it from that angle and stop trying to rationalizing it. It doesnt make any sense at all. But thats what addictions do. 
Did you try to do the F2F program? lots of information that will be very helpfull to you

Good luck and good yom tov

I've been doing a lot of thinking... following up on some comments and adding in some new thoughts. Also been taking the time to focus on learning even more than before and pushing my limits in my learning especially on shabbat and YT... exerting the mental energy into learning leaves less room for other things... 

re. frank.lee - Before i start anything new, i want to make sure i am taking full advantage of the resources available to me. BH I have a very supportive wife (I'm trying to focus on the fact that she is unusually supportive and that i should be so grateful) and a new mentor (/friend) who has been giving me excellent advice and support. I will be visiting this mentor with my wife after YT to discuss next steps, especially whether SA is relevant to me or not. BH I have a lot of experience in changing myself and my lifestyle and am not sure whether guidance in the right direct is the best move or therapy. Thinking things out and reflecting upon my thoughts with my wife and mentor have made a massive positive change in my life this past month. 

I realized something during second day of YT after reading through Charlie Harary's "Unlocking Greatness." He writes that every addiction is caused by a certain pain/unresolved challenge in a person's life. So there were two "addictive behaviours" to focus on: 1. the need to engage in sex with my wife on as close to as daily as possible, and when that is not possible or when especially overwhelmed with stresses, resorting to getting the physical touch from massage parlors. 2. the drag to consume marijuana.

i realized that behavior #1 was very much helped (too early in the process to say "resolved") by HHM's guidance on emotional intimacy with one's wife and how to improve the relationship / change the focus of the relationship. This is something i am actively working on with my wife and my mentor. 

Behavior/desire #2 seems to pull at me more when i am experiencing physical discomfort or pain. I think that this needs to be approached with a game plan on how to increase my resilience - need to ruminate on that thought though, let's see where this direction will take me...

Re. a rav, there is someone local i will be reaching out to in after bein hazmanim once we are all back in town / in yeshiva.


willnevergiveup, thank you for the resources! Will explore them further after meeting with wife nd metor to decide on best direction moving forward. What you wrote really makes me think

i was talking to my mentor about one of the things someone said at the one SA meeting i went to which i could not wrap my mind around. This person spoke about doing something that took it beyond the level of self indulgence and was already at the point where it was affecting multiple families. I say "can't wrap my mind around it" not because i am judging him unfavorably, rather because it was unfathomable and just was not possible for my heart to understand what my mind processed....my mentor told me that my goal is to have the same reaction to going to a massage parlor. and my answer to you is that it is hard for me to answer that. the sefarim talk about the klipot and mekatrgim that come from the zera that is spilled, but then again, what about the malachim created from my actions that will stand against me on the day of judgement? These are things that my mind understands, but have not yet penetrated the heart... something to think about and work on along with everything else, in fact maybe more than everything else because i need to face the denial that what i had done was somewhat better in any way that doing it all the way...


Chancy, you are so on point and it is kind of scary...

שבע יפול צדיק וקם, i agree that all resources available should be taken advantage of, but to what extent and in what order is to be determined, hopefully together with my wife and mentor in the next week or two BH. Re. speaking to a rav, i would first need to determine the best rav to speak to (as mentioned will broach the topic with a very chashuv local rav with whom i have a relationship - once yeshiva is back in session and we are all back in town). I believe that the primary thing i'd be looking to get out of sessions with a rav would be clarity on where i stand in this area in general, and guidance on best next steps on how to work on my struggles. 

Dov, will BH be in touch pretty soon. 



To wrap up, i must say that the amount of support has been incredible! GYE is such a great tool. The forum has so much great info, and now that i have some more push toward the F2F program, i'll definitely be looking into it more...so many resources and not nearly enough time! BH i guess that's what this is all about. One thing i do know is super important is not delaying on putting a stronger filter on my wife's work phone - the other day i slipped - not in pornography but in binge watching stupid youtube clips on their homepage for hours... i ended up in bed at 1:30 am and was exhausted the next day. 

I have been feeling withdrawal from the dopamine cravings of videos, expeditions to massage parlors, news headlines, movies, random spotify secular music, etc... it's a big change in an area of my life that the public does not see, which i think makes it a bit harder, but i am pushing and fighting day by day... i have also been taking more time to be with the humans in my life and am trying to avoid making GYE yet another dopamine outlet.

it really helps to be able to vent to my wife in general and to my mentor friend with the specifics. 

thanks so much to everyone who is helping along the way! 

hope everyone has an amazing and uplifting remainder of their YT! 

Hi,
I'm a baal teshuva for more than 7 years now, in my early 30s living in a yeshiva community with roommates, never married.
I started seeking suggestive images since I was 9 years old on dial-up, though I wouldn't call myself an addict it has definitely always been somewhere around with its accompanying guilt. Though at times I fell deeper into it, it never seemed out of control, unfortunately I got taught how to pleasure myself also quite young by an equally young goi acquaintance at the age of 12, gradually doing it more as I started entering my teenage years. Thank god we didn't have smartphones back then but the computer at home during the early hours of the day was almost as bad. No real parental control or discipline. Baruch Hashem I never had more than skinship with girls for that would probably make my current plight even more challenging.
More than 20 years later now dealing with a problem that goes against my core values, It feels that it is more an effect of the other problems I have in my life (lack of discipline mainly) than a cause but I guess it is always just a downward spiral.

I sleep late, am bored, play some games, check some comics, look at some memes and start being exposed to more and more images, it doesn't usually start with wanting it but one thing leads to the other - sometimes quite quickly depending on how much I have been letting go lately and my levels of anxiety - and i find myself in ground 0 once again.

I have been in the past, able to last 3 or so months without masturabtion but without the right support any strong wind can blow my effort away. And after knowing about this website for more than a few years I've decided it is time to give it a try, specially seeing how much work it has been done to it and how easy it seems nowadays to follow the step by step program.

Until today I had lasted 9 days, from a few days before  yom kippur until today i had managed to avoid the fall but a bit of extra stress from a Shiduch I am unsure about and  reading a few comics which were gradually more arousing (instead of being in my wonderful succa) i failed to avoid it, funny thing is i keep reminding myself while on the verge that I should stop and that i can still stop but to no avail.  

I have my phone filtered well enough to prevent me from falling but I have access to an unfiltered computer in a private area that makes the challenge quite hard at times.

I hate how this affects my energy, focus, guilt, avodat hashem, and the inability to reveal that which is hidden that requires a pure mind and heart. It makes me feel unready for a serious relationship and just generally annoyed at my inability to deal with my anxiety.

Here goes another try starting right now, 14 days is where the eyesight is at, hopeful and trustful, i'll read some Tehilim tonight.

I take upon myself at this moment to love my fellow jew (you who will be reading this) as i love myself. Thanks for the support!

Teshuvahguy wrote on 12 Oct 2022 02:29:

Was a response to your last post prior to mine

Vehkam wrote on 12 Oct 2022 02:09:

Was this response to my post or someone else’s?

Have you considered sex addiction therapy?

Don’t beat yourself up. If you are trying to improve you are already ahead of the game.

I also have depression and anxiety disorder and came from an unhealthy home and learned at an early age to use porn and masturbation as self-soothing tools. It feels inconceivable to think that I could stop forever. It is a strong crutch. Add to this my SSA and I feel like how can Hashem love me or forgive me for my thoughts alone, never mind the garbage I look at and masturbate to. Before I was frum I was addicted to sex with men. It was a compulsion I could not control. At times I had sex with several men a day. It dominated my life and took precedence over everything else…my work, marriage, everything. When I became frum, somehow with Hashem’s help I stopped acting out with men. It was truly a miracle. So I know that habits that I thought were impossible to break are actually breakable. So maybe I am just not ready to give up gay porn and masturbation, even though I feel terrible when I do it and fight hard not to. How can I be a good Jew when committing such terrible sins? But the idea of letting it go is terrifying. Please go easy on me if you respond. I am already hurting and don’t want to be hurt more. I was on here 6 years ago and dropped off out of frustration. 

“…these actions being a compulsive behavior ingrained in our brains' circuitry since youth as a way to deal with stress and discomfort and that it is now an addiction because we can't stop even though we want to…”

EXACTLY. That’s what P&M are for me and ever since my non-frum youth when I was told it was healthy and normal it has been my emotional crutch and I am unable to stop, it seems, as I have been dependent upon this behavior for many decades. 

Thanks for sharing. Our brain/yetzer harah/addiction is very clever at telling us anything to get us back to our drug. What's worked for me is to share honestly with people and lock down any devices that I've been using for pornography.

tryingtoshteig1926 wrote on 07 Oct 2022 13:53:

Hi brother. I am so sorry to hear the pain you are going through. I can feel it from your words. Not that I've been asked to recommend anything, but I think you should consider that perhaps Hashem does not want you to approach the battle against watching porn and masturbating as a spiritual one, but rather as a medical problem, through the lens of these actions being a compulsive behavior ingrained in our brains' circuitry since youth as a way to deal with stress and discomfort and that it is now an addiction because we can't stop even though we want to and even though we know it's harmful behavior. I am not saying we don't have free will and that we don't have to choose to stop and that we can just say, "I'm an addict, it's not my fault.". We do have free will and we do need to stop even though we are addicts. I am just saying that by looking at the problem through an objective and clinical lens (instead of using rhetoric about the yetzer hara and ruchnius), you may be able to empower yourself to stop feeling bad about yourself for being the victim of addiction, and seek out and utilize the proper tools to put addiction into remission for good (there are many guys on this site who have had success in beating addiction for a long time using the standard tools. Start with the GYE flight to freedom program if you want!)
Have a great Shabbos, and try to feel GOOD about yourself! The fact that you care about doing what's right makes you beloved to Hashem. You are already one in a billion for actually caring to do what's right.

You're in a great spot, bH. I emailed you my info. If you wish you can call. All I do is help ppl clarify what's best for them. Many people here are not addicts, bH, and do not need 12 step recovery groups - some are appropriate for that. Your call. I'm always happy to discuss all options openly.
Dov

Goldfish wrote on 07 Oct 2022 13:13:

i would suggest that it is not your job to "guarantee" change.  your job may be to keep trying....

jackthejew wrote on 07 Oct 2022 09:36:

I don't think you fully understood my question. I do indeed work on not speaking Loshon Hora and on trying to think about Hashem. On Yom Kippur I was full of remorse for having failed to use my mouth propeolr etc, and I promised to try harder. In the area of Pegam Habris however, I couldn't honestly tell myself that I would change because I don't believe that I really have much to do about it. Therefore I can't really regret something that I'm not doing anything to change (because I don't believe that I can, assuming its an illness.) Have I clarified my question?