Ive been ‘signed up‘ with gye for a while now (since covid), but i haven't really used the site. Now Ive reached a place where im ready to jump in and kick this addiction for good. 
 i got the gye app and started reading, starting the f2f program and the 90 day challenge. Now im posting here. 
Ive struggled with p&m for about 6/7 years now. At first it was p when i was home and m when i was in yeshiva. I did have a smartphone for a few months in mesivta, but i got rid of it when i thought i was going to get caught. 
then i got a new (‘kosher‘) phone and found a loophole. And it was p&m daily for many years. [the loophole was literally just for p i wasn't able to access gye or anything else]
i got in touch with a partner through gye and got the loophole taken care of. For about 8 months it was only m and every time i went home i would ‘catch up‘. Then i found a new loophole and back to square one. 
now Ive been in Israel for a while and dont have that loophole, but i still desperately needed my fix. So i found a new loophole/backdoor. 
now that im getting ready to go back to america i realized what a mess Ive been making out of my life (finally see how p&m where at the root of getting kicked out of a few yeshivas, not ‘overbearing rabbis who were out to get me‘)
i got  back in touch with my partner, i spoke to my father, blocked all the loopholes/backdoors and i downloaded the gye app. Im going home for bein hazmanim soon and looking forward to the first one in years without YouTube, movies, forums and porn. 
i started talking with hashemhelpme and look forward to being part of the gye community.

My dear friend and brother, first of all, you are so courageous for coming back! Secondly you seem to have put tremendous amount of thought and energy into this area of your life. IYH you can and will succeed! You asked great questions! Really!
​As far as your questions, I personally have found that using masturbation as a way of not using porn never worked. Ever. Perhaps you can focus on working on one and not the other, but to use it as an outlet in my experience doesnt work. What does is working on yourself, getting a friend, and setting up accountability.
As far as medication, like everyone said here, thats for a professional, but from the symptoms you are describing, it doesnt seem like a must at all. You are not crazy, actually you seem more normal than most. 
Your question about Hashem is a multi-faceted one and needs to be addressed separately.
It is normal to have such major nisyonos, we all did, on our own level. I think your main question is why? Which is a great one but I will IYH get back to it later. For now keep on shteiging. Your coming here will iyh be the start of a bright future!

Try leaving it in a certain area such as in a drawer or cabinet for short amounts of time. Like let's say for 20 minutes when you come home. Then build from there. It will retrain your brain that you don't need to look at it all the time or "be on call."

I never owned a smartphone (and I hope never to own one) but from what I observe it seems that it has the capacity to control it's owner. 
Cars stay by greenlights without the driver noticing that it's time to move... People walk in the street without noticing where they're going... Children try to talk to their parents, but there's someone more important - and so on... 

I read a study, that average Americans tend to spend five to six hours every day on their phones. This means that the average American spends around three months of the year staring at their phone screen. Using a smartphone leads to an increase in dopamine signals in our brains. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter that causes us to feel pleasure, just like serotonin and oxytocin. However, the feeling of pleasure caused by dopamine is temporary, so our brains seek to repeat the feeling, leading to the repeated use of the smartphone. 

The brain consists of thousands of neural pathways that help memory, concentration, and other functions. The less we use a particular channel, the weaker that connection becomes. Eventually, these connections become dormant. This makes it impossible to be effective at doing tasks that once were automatic. Having our phone so readily available weakens memory functions and decreases productivity. We waste so many minutes relying on our phones. We should use this time to re-examine the effectiveness and ineffectiveness smartphones play in our daily lives.

chancy wrote on 12 Sep 2023 16:56:

Been there done that . Ive had a smartphone for a couple of years , Without any social media on it & it still managed to waste a lot of my time.
I'm close to 3 years without one now , and although there are certainly a lot of inconveniences to having a dumb phone over a smart phone - I would never choose to go back to having one as my regular phone

Hi Paltiel,
What you are describing is a real and serious issue plaguing all developed countries, lots and lots of people get addicted to thier phones and it ruins thier lives. 
There is a big debate if it can be called 'addiction' since there are no discernable withdrawal symptoms like with other addictions.... but the fact is that it controls them. 
Unfortunately, this is very common in our circles as well, only people dont realize it for what it is. Walking on the street and taking out your phone every 2 seconds is not healthy! Sitting by a simcha and not interacting with others but rather choosing to play with your phone is insane! plain and simple, look around and see how many people that have a smartphone, especially if they have any kind of social media on there, are always engrossed in it? My heart goes out for them.... Nebech letting their whole life go by and they are not here!!! 

I had a smartphone for years before it was commonplace, i had the first few versions of the iphone, but slowly i weaned myself off and now im free for years, i would never choose to go back! I got my life back BH, my wife did the same and we are happier than ever. 
Im not saying its easy or that it must be done, but its possible and once you get used to it, you will be thanking me......

Common.
Maybe go to the core, what do you believe causes this behavior? is it always the same? is it boredom?
Hatzlacha!

Greetings fellow GYERS,
The phone I own seems to know how to control me, hence it's name...
Did anybody ever experience this? Is it possible to own a smartphone without opening it every few minutes,not because I'm expecting a Whatsapp but for the need to look at the phone itself. I never succeed I'm the Dopamine detox...
is there some sort of 12 step group for technology addicts (without porn) or another form of help?
Wishing all a Shana Tova umevoreches.

Dear No Mask,

You are not doing well, you are doing freaking fantastically crazy ecstaticitly  GREAT!!! 
You were able to kick a few serious addictions that lots of people are unable to do! So dance in the streets~!!!
Now, your desires are plain human and have been since after Adam sinned, nothing wrong. 
I do understand the feeling, where you can go day on end with lust on everything, trying to find something that does NOT trigger you but finding out in your horror that EVERYTHING is a trigger! Yep that is painful....  I have it sometimes as well. 
2 things to understand. 
1. That is the price we pay for moving away from actual shmutz. that when your YH wants you to sin again, he has to throw the book at you, its that simple! I know for a fact that since ive stopped P and M i find many many more things arousing then i did when i was doing P and M. In the beginning, it was pissed! WTH? what now? but i realized that instead of fighting it, ill accept it. I know now that just as its possible to stop watching P and doing M, its possible not to get dragged down and into the plain innocuous sights in front of our eyes. You just have to reframe your mind.
2. People like you are the greatest thing Hashem has in this lowly earth! Look what the holy Rambam says that the bigger a person is the bigger his challenges are! I once posted a Yismach Moshe who writes that he had a dream and was told from Heaven that a person that does tshuva and still has a burning desire to return to his old ways and fights that desire, is a full fledged Bal Tshuva! he doesnt need any 'sigufim' or any other purifications! by fighting his YH he is clansing himself!!! 

A Git Gebencht Zisse Yur far Alle Yiden!

]
[list]
[*][p][b]The desire to M for me becomes extremely strong. I think this is my biggest problem. I can guard my eyes, I can avoid temptation, I can delay long enough that the desire to watch P goes away. However, I get a pressure in my mind and physical discomfort in my waist that pushes me to find a release. I think this is a mental thing overall. When I am stressed and my body wants the endorphin rush. I become fixated on the idea of release and the pressure never seems to go away, it can last for days. It is distracting and very much impacts my focus throughout the day. [/b]
It seems that you have a very active body with a lot of energy, good for you! Now you can go get those endorphins thru healthy ways, figure out a good exercise regiment that will give you those endorphin highs you feel you need, and that WILL decree your need to get them from bad places.[/p]
[*][p][b]The ease of P and temptation. Our world is packed to the brim with sexual images, quick access to our drug, and temptation. I work online and can’t be disconnected from the world. As much as I would love to learn full time, stay in my community, and shut down every online access point - my job requires me to be online. Going to the store exposes me to images and clothing that’s hard to avoid. Doing anything in the secular world seems to immediately expose you to sexualized images. [/b]
Getting away from everything thats tempting is key, I understand its hard, but its still the key, at least in the beginning. Your brain needs to detox for a while from being fed so much garbage. So, get a great filter that has shading on images, so even if you 'need' to get unto some site or other, you will not  be triggered. After a while your brain will start detoxing. But you need to stop feeding it either with visual or imaginative images.[/p]
[*][p][b]My own mind. I have so many images and thoughts in my own mind from the years I spent giving in fully to temptation. Those images become a catalyst without anything else external feeding them. See above,[/b] I dont think thats 100% true, (i get that you think so, but actually, the mind is very persuasive and forgets or puts into storage those things that we dont constantly need or bring up).[/p]
[*][p][/p]
[/list]
[p][b]Questions. [/b][/p]
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[*][p][b]Is it better for me to M as a way to avoid looking at P? Should I make the transition away from P fully while still getting physical release when I seem to have no option? [/b]
There are some that say that, but i dont think its too helpful. The problem is that you will still feed your imagination and that will create new lasting pathways in  our mind, so you are not gaining much. [/p]
[*][p][b]Why has G-d not removed this challenge from me? Why after prayer, charity, repentance, and so much suffering am I still facing this same challenge? [/b]
If i had 1 cent for every time one of us has that question...... I wouldn't be typing now..... I would be eating cents for lunch. There is not easy answer for that. 1 think you need to understand and that is that we CANT POSSIBLY understand Hashem! He is way beyond our narrow way of thinking in terms of ones and zeros...... So dont waste your time trying to figure out why He made like this or why He is not giving you what you want, the only helpful thing to ask yourself is wrote:

I don’t know what to do or where to go next.

TLDR: I have struggled with P and M addiction since I was very young. I have tried many solutions and made significant growth in my relationship with both addictions, however, I have been unable to completely rid myself of either. I don’t know where to go now, but I am looking for solutions and seeking G-d’s guidance. 

My Story: I discovered P when I was young (11-12) through DVDs and Magazines in my house. It was how I learned about sex and where I have built my relationship with the subject over the next 17 years of my life. From that first exposure I started seeking P wherever I could find it. I searched my home, friends' homes, the internet, and stole from libraries and retail stores. I was hooked and nothing satisfied the need to consume more. Multiple times I was caught, even then the shame and guilt was never enough to keep me from returning. I grew up religious and constantly struggled with my faith due to the guilt placed on M and P. I could not find a pathway to free myself from lust and so I could not understand how G-d had given me a challenge I seemingly could not overcome. I still struggle with this today, however, I am more confident than ever that there will be freedom. As a teenager and then young adult I had a few relationships that turned physical, P was always still an unbreakable habit, even whIle i was in committed and physically active relationships. 

When I was in my 20’s I left faith and allowed myself to be consumed by the secular world and my habits. I fully gave into P and M believing that I was unable to fight my urges and that it was “not harmful” as the secular world likes to claim. I am now part of a community, I daven 3 times a day normally with a minyan, I learn as often as I am able, and I love Hashem. I have not found freedom yet. I understand that Hashem gives us challenges in life that we are able to overcome, that each sin we have is a vessel that can be transformed and filled with His goodness. I understand that He loves me, forgives me, and seeks my good in all things–before, during, and after the moment when I am weak. However, I am done, I am sick of struggling, fighting, and failing time and time again. I am frustrated with how weak I feel. Discouraged and hurt by the lack of support I feel. I don’t know what to do next. So, I am trying this. If this fails, I will try something else. 

At one point I would watch hours of P a day. It was and is a form of anxiety relief for me, a drug to help me focus, and an endorphin rush that I am hunting for. I don’t know if I need to seek out medication for ADD or anxiety as a way to help me fight the addition. I have other habits I have been unable to break that deal with the same physical and mental release. Such as biting nails. I have had success from time to time with stopping–then, during periods of high stress or hard work, I always fall back to old habits. I am at the point now where I can go for one-two weeks without falling into my old habits. I have made a lot of growth–but I want to be fully rid of this. 

What has worked so far. 

• My phone has no social media or internet. I have found that by removing my access to easy and mindless scrolling I am able to limit my exposure. However, no system is full proof and even with a guarded “kosher” phone I can find ways to view stimulating images if I want. 

• Charity. You are able to challenge G-d with your charity. I have given consistently, daily. For over a year now. Sometimes manually each day, others through an automatic charity service. I have and am challenging G-d to remove and help me overcome my addiction. 

• Prayer. I pray sincerely for freedom from lust. I find that after I have failed my prayers are distant, guilty, and distracted but when I am able to focus I believe I am heartfelt in my requests to be free. 

• Learning. I have been learning a wide range of topics. All torah learning helps me distance myself from temptation. None of it has been the final nail in the coffin of this addiction. I know the chemical makeup, the way addiction works on the brain, I can observe myself during moments of temptation, I even know steps I can take to help or stop myself from giving in–It often delays but never fully breaks the habit. 

• Schedule. Having a dedicated schedule is very helpful. Praying 3 times a day, learning, eating well, working hard, exercise–all of this helps me remain strong. At some point however all of these structured habits make me grow exhausted and I break. I don’t go to sleep early enough, I take a day to watch a TV show or movie, I grab junk food, miss a minyan, and then always end up watching P and M. 

There is more I could go through that I have tried, am trying, and might be working to some degree. At the end of the day - nothing has fully worked. 

Why it’s not working. 

• The desire to M for me becomes extremely strong. I think this is my biggest problem. I can guard my eyes, I can avoid temptation, I can delay long enough that the desire to watch P goes away. However, I get a pressure in my mind and physical discomfort in my waist that pushes me to find a release. I think this is a mental thing overall. When I am stressed and my body wants the endorphin rush. I become fixated on the idea of release and the pressure never seems to go away, it can last for days. It is distracting and very much impacts my focus throughout the day. 

• The ease of P and temptation. Our world is packed to the brim with sexual images, quick access to our drug, and temptation. I work online and can’t be disconnected from the world. As much as I would love to learn full time, stay in my community, and shut down every online access point - my job requires me to be online. Going to the store exposes me to images and clothing that’s hard to avoid. Doing anything in the secular world seems to immediately expose you to sexualized images. 

• My own mind. I have so many images and thoughts in my own mind from the years I spent giving in fully to temptation. Those images become a catalyst without anything else external feeding them. 

• The reward for a avera is a avera. When I fail, I am more likely to fail again. When I am faithful and diligent I am more likely to succeed. However, I always seem to have a point of failure where I start over again. 

• The guilt. Why keep trying? It can be very hard to have hope and push forward when you have 17 years of failure. 

Questions. 

• Is it better for me to M as a way to avoid looking at P? Should I make the transition away from P fully while still getting physical release when I seem to have no option?

• Why has G-d not removed this challenge from me? Why after prayer, charity, repentance, and so much suffering am I still facing this same challenge? 

• Should I seek medication as a way to fight? I know that some of the signs of ADD, Anxiety, Depression are a likely dependence on endorphins and higher proclivity to addictive substances. Am I at the point now where I should seek medical help? 

• Is it normal to have a physical desire that is overwhelming, distracting, and seemingly impossible to overcome? 

Thanks for reading. I hope to be active and work through the 90 day challenge. This is the next step forward. G-d willing it is the last one needed before I find freedom from this addiction.

Here's my current thought process:

It's the obsession that drives me crazy.
Whether the obsession with lust or the obsession to stay away.
Whether the obsession to post on GYE or the obsession to mind my business.
It's almost never flatline. It's extreme.
Either way, whichever side I'm leaning, I'm not in a calm place.
(I think I recall hearing someone explaining the mind of an addict in these terms.)

For the past two weeks (approximately), I've tried (obsessively) not to obsess.
When I was working, I worked.
When I was with my kids, I played with my kids.
When I felt the desire to masturbate, I masturbated.

I understand that from a Jewish perspective, this is wrong, and even from a natural/material/physical perspective, I have no idea what the long-term implications might be, but life is so simple like this.

That's where I'm at, folks.

Oveid wrote on 27 Oct 2014 07:31:

From what I know, the goal of ERP is to gradually expose patients to their obsessions in a safe and controlled environment. For OCD it's very effective but I'm not sure about addictions. Please tell us more about it, thanks!  

eslaasos wrote on 21 Oct 2015 16:44:

I'm still here.  Hard times are only made harder by falls.  I am staying away.  I have a knas-based filter and I intend to increase the knas.  I have unfortunately been imagining if paying the knas is worth it.  (Pro-tip: IT'S NOT.)

What works for me is writing about my experiences here.  I've had more positive results by sharing my thoughts out of the way, rather than as replies to individuals.  Typically chaverim on this website need sympathy and a direct response to their matzav, not the addition of someone else's burden.

The reason why trans-sexual matters bothers me so much is two-fold.  FIrst of all, the way I grew up I was exposed to a lot of hyper-sexualized adult content when I was still younger than ten, which ultimately I found deeply disturbing.  I don't think anyone should be exposed to that.  So-called "French / European" parenting IS UTTERLY STUPID.  I sympathize for the poor kids exposed to this stuff, and it's no surprise to me that they're confused.  They need an advocate, so I speak out against this stuff.

The second reason is more embarrassing.  I'm hoping to share it here in the hope that I can disconnect from it.  I spent more than a decade of my life feeling utterly alone in my intimate life, unworthy, unloved, and without any path forward.  I thought it was my lot in life that I would just have to wait until I was older.  My father was much, much older than my mother.  I was hoping that once I was successful enough, I would also marry someone much younger.  But now, in this generation, so many of the teenage girls are irreversibly maiming themselves or else the twentys-somethings are feminists that are competing with men and employers prefer compliant women than ambitious and energetic young men, or even worse the thirty-somethings use sex to advance their careers, fooling the men and then turning against them.  Once the women are in their forties it's very difficult to have kids, and now it's a shoah again, and this time in slow-motion.  These are my perceptions and I don't think I'm alone.  Is this the punishment in store for those of us with this addiction?  How do I repent?  I don't know.  I don't have answers.  All I know is that I'M NOT TURNING BACK.  For now, that has to be enough.  If there is a positive action that I can take, I will take it.  I will pray for guidance and many miracles.

Be well, be strong and of good courage.  HAZAK V'EMATZ

PS: If you want world peace, start by treating yourself with dignity and respect, and then love your neighbor.