There is a values exercise. It's very easy to be shallow there and lie to ourselves (as we have been for many years)

Anyone has any thoughts on how to really dig deep down to figure out what our values are?

From what I see the course doesn't give much help in this area. And this seemingly is part of the engine of the program, I would want to get it at least mostly right.

Can you explain how you would lie about your values? 

I am not understanding, maybe I don't understand what a value is?

Thanks

Hakolhevel, could you elaborate a bit? It might help if you can give an example of a value that seems essential to you but might not really be important to you deep down.

Like you said, clarifying values is part of the "engine," and getting it right can be pretty helpful in recovery. That's why they are part of many therapies like CBT and ACT and recovery programs (like F2F and SMART Recovery). 

Once we have clarity on what's most important to us, we can see that our addictive behaviors stand in the way of what we want most in life. They are not just an isolated problem. This motivates us to work on our recovery because we realize how it will help us have a much more satisfying life.

In other words, if my top 5 values don't include P&M and go against them, it helps me get more motivated to get P&M out of my life. And when I'm feeling tempted, it helps to know that when my head was clear, I was 100% sure that P&M doesn't align with my top values.

Of course, for that to work, we need to be sure that my list of values is our list of values and not something else's... So take your time combing through the list of values (you can find a list on page 2 of this worksheet) and choosing which values matter most to you today. 

You don't need to share your top values with anyone, so there's no point in choosing the "right" ones that will make you look good. Just choose the ones that you currently find important.

Values are also helpful in working on Life Balance. Once you have the headspace for improving other areas of life, you can review your values again and set goals for each of them (that point is discussed in Lesson 9).

Here's another way to describe values:

"Deep down inside, what is important to you? What do you want your life to stand for? What sort of qualities do you want to cultivate as a person? How do you want to be in your relationships with others? Values are our heart's deepest desires for the way we want to interact with and relate to the world, other people, and ourselves. They are leading principles that can guide us and motivate us as we move through life.

"Values are not the same as goals. Values are directions we keep moving in, whereas goals are what we want to achieve along the way. A value is like heading West; no matter how far West you go, you never reach it. A goal is like the river or mountain or valley we aim to cross whilst traveling in that direction. Goals can be achieved or 'crossed off', whereas values are an ongoing process. For example, if you want to be a loving, caring, supportive partner, that is a value – an ongoing process. If you stop being loving, caring and supportive, then you are no longer a loving, caring, supportive partner; you are no longer living by that value. In contrast, if you want to get married, that's a goal - it can be 'crossed off' or achieved. Once you're married, you're married – even if you start treating your partner very badly. If you want a better job, that's a goal. Once you've got it - goal achieved. But if you want to fully apply yourself at work, that's a value – an ongoing process."

Let me know if that helps. If you want, I can offer some more tools and ideas to identify your top values. 

MenachemGYE wrote on 17 Dec 2021 12:24:

That is helpful thank you.

I know it's used in CBT and Smart. But both of those programs one has outside help, which helps to makmake sure the person gets to the root of it.

Since this is at this point a self help course, I think the values section needs more write up to make sureit really works. Even you paragraph here of values vs goals is super important, and should be included.

As to lying to ourselves. It may be that sexuality is one of my values (I'm not sure yet) but if I want to "ace this course I will write ththe top 5 that sound normal"

ReligionTorahFinancialFamilyFitness
and maybe those are my values, but usually the best way to get to what you really value is by bouncing it off other people, How can we ensure this happens in a self help manner? At the very least there needs to be more explanation to values, and your write up I think would be one very good step in that direction. Maybe also a few more questioneers

I found both 'MenachemGYE' and 'Hakolhevel's messages very helpful for me on my way to clarify my top 5 values.
Thank you very much Hakol for trying to be honest with yourself, and thanks Menachem for your info

@HakolHevel, I hear that. I guess part and parcel of the course is to realize that no one is going to see your progress or answers except for you. There are no right or wrong answers, just some hard core honesty. (yeah I know, it's not that simple, but hey, that's the name of your thread isn't it?)

Acing the program comes with progress. I don't think of it as a test, rather like a "learning through experience" kind of course. The "right or wrong" answers are going to be your experiences, not what you write on a worksheet. 

Values and Goals Clarification (SMART Recovery)

Values Clarification

Your values are your ideas about what is most important to you in your life —what you want to live by and live for. They are the silent forces behind many of your actions and decisions. The goal of “values clarification” is for you to become fully conscious of their influence, and to explore and honestly acknowledge what you truly value at this time in your life. You can be more self-directed and effective when you know which values you really choose to keep and live by as an adult, and which ones will get priority over others.

Identify your values first, and then rank your top three or five.

• Being with people
• Being loved
• Being married
• Having a special partner
• Having companionship
• Loving someone
• Taking care of others
• Having someone’s help
• Having a close family
• Having good friends
• Being liked
• Being popular
• Getting people’s approval
• Being appreciated
• Being treated fairly
• Being admired
• Being independent
• Being courageous
• Having things in control
• Having self-control
• Being emotionally stable
• Having self-acceptance
• Having pride or dignity
• Being well-organized
• Being competent
• Learning and knowing a lot
• Achieving highly
• Being productively busy
• Having enjoyable work
• Having an important position
• Making money

• Striving for perfection
• Making a contribution to the world
• Fighting injustice
• Living ethically
• Being a good parent (or child)
• Being a spiritual person
• Having a relationship with God
• Having peace and quiet
• Making a home
• Preserving your roots
• Having financial security
• Holding on to what you have
• Being safe physically
• Being free from pain
• Not getting taken advantage of
• Having it easy
• Being comfortable
• Avoiding boredom
• Having fun
• Enjoying sensual pleasures
• Looking good
• Being physically fit
• Being healthy
• Having prized possessions
• Being a creative person
• Having deep feelings
• Growing as a person
• Living fully
• “Smelling the flowers”
• Having a purpose

Goals Clarification

OK, so there are your ideas about which values are at the top of your priorities. Where does this take us? Values are fine things to have, but what we are doing in SMART is changing behavior – so what you might like to do is to translate your personal values into your intended changes in behavior.

The next task is to have a look at your goals, expressing them in terms of behavior change. Here’s a worksheet way to set it out.

In the left hand column goes the VALUE that you defined earlier. Your values may be reflected in your life, in which case your goal might be to keep things going along steadily. Or you may feel that your life doesn’t reflect your values too well, in which case you would probably want something different to happen. What you want to happen is a GOAL, and it goes in the next column.

And the third column is what you (and this means you alone) are going to try to do about it which is a BEHAVIOR. Or maybe, in some cases, a specific action.

VALUE	GOAL: What do I want to happen?	BEHAVIOR: What am I going to do about it?
Having a close family	I want us not to argue over my boozing I want us to enjoy time together as a family I want to be able to give my kids reasonable amounts of spending money I want my family not to feel let down by what I do	Stick to my resolution not to drink Not drinking will help. Be less bossy as well as less boozy Tricky … spending less on booze will help Try to make realistic commitments and keep them
Being competent	I want to feel more competent in my work or to mind less if I don’t feel completely competent at all times.	Work out a continuing work skills development program and carry it through. Learn to accept that I’m fallible by disputing the belief that I have to be marvelous at everything.
Being emotionally stable	I want not to lose my temper at all, or at least far less often. I want to stay cool when provoked!	Practice skills of REBT in handling feelings, particularly the ones that sneak up on me

Thanks for the feedback! Any feedback/ideas in this thread will be considered be"h as part of the next edition. 

Regarding sexuality, if you feel that it's part of your top 5 values then feel free to include it. But consider defining it a bit. What type of sexuality do you value? Is it it related to love, intimacy and marriage? If yes, what type of husband would you like to be? What type of relationship would it be?

Another way to consider values is to ask yourself this question:

• What are your most important values in life? What do you feel are the most significant things needed for you to have a successful life?

Or:

• Imagine your son is entering his teenage years, what are the most important values he needs to have a healthy life?

(Credit: SMART Recovery, Boro Park)

And here's yet another way...

Part 1:

At Your 80th Birthday Party
Suppose that at some future time there was a party held in your honor. At this event, people who are important to you, and to whom you are important, have come together to celebrate you and your life.
When the time comes at this party for people to make speeches about you, they will spend their time talking about the kind of person they experienced you to be. And for this exercise, we need you to write these descriptions for them as if you had actually become the person you would most like to be. Don’t limit yourself to what your mind currently tells you is achievable. Remember that you don’t need to show this to anyone - you’re exploring a possible path for your life. When you’ve finished you can choose whether or not you will commit to none, some or all of it. For now, let your imagination have free rein.

Who is the first person to speak?

1. Name:
2. Relationship to you:
3. What do they say?

[Now repeat this for subsequent speakers]

Part 2:

• What people do you admire or consider role models in your life?
• What are some common qualities of the people you admire?
• What personal qualities would you like to express, develop or nurture?
• If you already had all the money, time, fame and love you needed, what would you most want to do? And what purpose would you be serving in doing it?
• When do you most feel like you’re really being you? When do you most feel that you’re expressing who you are? When do you feel most alive?
• What brings you joy and satisfaction?

Credit: www.exeter.ac.uk

wilnevergiveup wrote on 19 Dec 2021 06:23:

Looks like the truth is the name of your thread too

More practically, look at dovs posts in the beginning of my thread. Honestly is very hard, especially alone, that's why smart recovery is also group therapy.

So this being done alone does make it harder. I know nobody is checking it, I would just like to get the most use out of it.

The the replies here seem very good, and will hopefully help me along this journey. I need to digest it for now.

Thanks!!!

First of all, Sorry for my improper English.
My issue in this topic is;
there are some core values  that guide my life but it is not right, and I wish it could be replaced by other.
For example, most things I do come from an underlying reason [which I usually do not even realize the reason] in order to have recognition from others.
Now, I do not want this, I do not want to be dependent on anyone's look on me, I just really want to do what the Almighty wants and dats it. But at the moment it is not so, is what are my true values? What I want to be, or what actually guides me?
Hope my questions is clear enough 

Hakolhevel wrote on 20 Dec 2021 01:48:

Yes, I know all too well. 

I wonder if some kind of partner program would help for this. 

Therapy helped me, but you can also lie to a therapist. The difference is that a therapist will try to help you find the real you, and you might be more motivated to make the most out of therapy if you are paying for it yourself.

Random thought, I know this may not be the greatest idea, but I wonder if you had to pay for the F2F program if people would go through it differently. I am obviously not serious, just making a point. I think it's important not to go through this with the "why not" attitude. Maybe that's why it was marketed as "The FLIGHT TO FREEDOM course is designed for people who are serious about recovery..."

Just a thought.

@wilnevergiveup tnx so much for contributing to this thread. I really like your perspective! Not sure about charging for F2F though... 

@a.green, Talking for myself, the deeper I value something, the higher it would go on my list. So, for example, if I value "Respect - recognition from others," but even more so value my connection to Hashem (and would be ready to sacrifice much more for Him than for getting respect), then Hashem would make it higher on my value list. For more on this see Rambam, Hilchos Geirushin, Perek 2 Halacha 20.

Or if I value "Curiosity - Stimulating my mind with interesting facts and knowledge", but value "Kids - Having a close connection with my children" even more, I'd put kids higher, even if I right now, I prioritize reading news over investing in my kids...   

If I really value curiosity more than my kids, I might need some deeper work (the "At Your 80th Birthday Party" might help, as well as talking to people I admire; If it's more complicated therapy can help). But unless it's blocking my recovery, it might make sense to consider working on that on it as part of "Lifestyle Balance" after I've been clean for 3-6 months. לא עליך המלאכה לגמור...

i do apologize for barging in on the party, but perhaps a compare and contrast program/details may help the conversation. the program depicted below has not been researched by the atlantic monthly medical journal; it has not been authorized by the counselling and mental health services at harvard, nor has it been reviewed by its periodical on medicine and therapy; it has, however, been prepared for ms. virginia, mental health nurse and pimhnet focal point, republic of nauru hospital. ok, enough with the introduction:

f2fL©

my program, which may be a big fat lie, is built to help myself strive, thrive and survive; it is called: “forever is 2 efing Long.” who can do something forever? not i. i need to be able to live life; hence my program.

values
1. live life productively
2. manage time effectively
3. maintain a positive feeling regarding sex

goals
1. a. i’d like to make a difference in this world
b. i’d like relationships to grow and flourish

2. a. i’d like to be working during working hours
b. i’d like to concentrate on my family during family time
c. i’d like to make more family time
d. i’d like to accomplish all tasks
e. i’d like to keep all chavrusos

3. a. i’d like to be there for my wife intimately as her needs/wants arise
b. i’d like all the focus to be on her
c. i’d like all my extracurricular sexual sexcapades to be a positive experience, not negative
d. i’d like that feeling to be there prior, during and after

implementation
1. when an urge arises (point x), document its intensity (1-10; 1 being lowest)
2. decide to hold off acting upon it
3. when you do give in (point y), which is completely fine, document your level of productivity between x and y
4. document your feeling of guilt (wife, god, yourself)
5. document your level of productivity between y and the next x
6. repeat

points to keep in mind
1. amount of days in between x and y is meaningless
2. amount of days between y and the next x is meaningless
3. goals will be rated and documented on a monthly basis
4. so sharks, who wants to swim with me?

@TROUBLE
Need some time to think about this. If the act of P&M is relatively ok, or at least the same as missing minyan or zman krias shma, and the amount of days in between falls doesn't matter, am I so bad? Is it even a fall?
Like I should probably work on it just like I should work on Lashon Horah but if it's too hard, nu nu.

MenachemGYE wrote on 20 Dec 2021 07:11:

Thank you Menachem for your answer. And so I did too.

I think my 5 top Value's: [I hope I'm honest with myself]
Kesher with Hashem
Torah learning
Health (physically / mental)
Respect - recognition from others
Giving - I shall feel that others are dependent on my help.