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An Honest Mouse's Thread 04 Jul 2011 11:09 #110237

Hi, I am Jamie. I am also a lust addict.

I just wanted to thank everyone who was on Dov's call yesterday and who listened to my 1st step and I wanted to apologise that I had to run off.

I thought that maybe I could use this thread to keep in more regular contact with the guys on the call during the week, especially as I can only be on the call once a week.

Anyhow, this is just a post to (hopefully) get the ball rolling. If anyone has any questions or comments about my 1st step yesterday, feel to ask or comment.
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 05 Jul 2011 14:29 #110333

  • Yosef Hatzadik
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an honest mouse wrote on 04 Jul 2011 11:09:

If anyone has any questions or comments about my 1st step yesterday, feel to ask or comment.


Huh?  :-\

"MY"??  ???

That is YOUR 1st Step??  :

Most of what you said sounded like it was MINE!!!! (Okay, the details were different, but the underlying message was all about ME!)  ;D



But, can we be friends anyhow??  :-*
Last Edit: 05 Jul 2011 14:36 by .

Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 09 Aug 2011 18:53 #114059

  • Dov
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Are we here?
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 10 Aug 2011 13:24 #114133

i am, reb yosef is, looks like no one else though.... 
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 11 Aug 2011 12:42 #114233

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Nu, we gotta start somewhere! Have a nice day, chaverim...
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 19 Aug 2011 14:52 #115433

  • David712
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Yehuda checking in. I have not been on  GYE much. It may be time to start again, Have a great Shabbos.
Last Edit: 22 Aug 2011 15:42 by .

Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 22 Aug 2011 14:56 #115696

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Sorry HM that I am using this board for checking in. I just wanted to apologize.. I was out with the kids on Sunday and totally forgot about the call and missed it..  :-[

I am sure I missed  a good call. Can we get a summary?
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 22 Aug 2011 15:32 #115702

chas veshalom please don't apologise. I also haven't been on enough. actually the last couple of times i was on, it was just 3 of us. Dov, Shmuel and me. I figured maybe no ones around the whole summer... That was what happened yesterday, i didnt actually check in though coz there was an ongoing conversation and i didnt want to interrupt.

I dont know where we are up to. I've hardly been on since i did my 1st step history/story thing. I would love for someone to fill me in.

I still don't feel like I'm really doing recovery. I'm still largely on my own. I wanna be meshabeid myself to a klal somehow. I'm sure about actually going to meetings yet.

I was clean for the last weeks but have now acted out 3 times between yesterday and today. I'm not ashamed, that's the matsav, but I would to be properly working the program and changing myself.

I need a direction and to start doing something. I see that I am powerless, I am not able to do the important things in life when lust rolls around and that has to change. I clearly can't change it myself. I gotta believe Hashem can do it for me. How do i do that?

Thanks for listening.
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 29 Aug 2011 02:25 #116686

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I need to meet and be around and hear from other addicts who are sober how they did it and how they are doing it.

Exactly what are you doing to help yourself so far these past week or two?

In what ways are you still feeding your addiction? I need to look at that whenever I am having a lust problem.

1- I needed (and need) to have enough of it. As long as I really do not want to live without it, I will not live without it. It's not about "wanting to quit" or "sincerely wishing I'd quit already" - we always did that. Hey - we are frummies!

Rather, it is obviously about being truly ready to live just one day without it. It is willing to go without it for today - and not being concerned with tomorrow. We put tomorrow in Hashem's hands.

And the ikkar is then to put today in Hashem's hands. "My pain right now over missing out on using the image that powerful redhead that just walked by me I surrender to You. My shame and disgust with myself as a general loser I surrender to You. My desire to use this erection for masturbation I surrender to You. And You love me Hashem and will take it away. Thank-You."  And I trust Him, period. And it works when I want it to (which is nearly always).

And if they say that the "one day at a time" is just a gimmick, ie, that we are saying to ourselves, "live one day without it now - then live one day without it tomorrow, etc.", then I say that is just tricking myself - which is silly fantasy! And it doesn't work. We do not trick ourselves . It needs to be something I really believe, cuz it makes absolute sense to me. This recovery thing is not a religion. 

I need to really put tomorrow in Hashem's hands and put my pain of forgoing my right to use porn and sex in Hashem's hands, and put my pain from forgoing the sweet opportunity to enjoy 'her figure', that 'nice feeling of my skin', or whatever it is that I am lusting for - in Hashem's hands. The most common thing I have davened for was for Hashem to remove the pain of giving it up from me while I walk away from enjoying the image of a (probably) superb looking woman on the street.

2- I needed (and need) to have a phone connection to other sober people like me, from day one. To have a list of 2 or more loving and caring men like me who are perverts in recovery that I can talk to when I feel squirrel-ish inside. When the desire comes to me to follow the very pretty woman in the supermarket from aisle to aisle and I am going crazy inside, I MUST have friends I can call with whom I can be open and honest with, no matter how embarrassed I am. Guys who will understand how much I am hurting, and will empathize without 'pity'.

Giving up lust is always painful and always sucks. Always. It feels much better never to get started, for there is no easy way out once we use it. So we need a nechomah, cuz we tend to lust a lot. And there is nothing to be ashamed of admitting all that to Hashem in the middle of our shemoneh esrei. He wants our hearts (what we are paying attention to [MaHaRa"L]), not our 'prettiness'. Vayarech es rei'ach begodov - al tikrei begodov, ella bogdov.

3- I needed (and need) to have a G-d that works. If I cannot talk to Him about my fears - whether they are about parnossah, about my wife not wanting to have sex with me, about my children growing up messed up, about death, about my wife thinking that my penis is too small, about my yiddishkeit being horrible, about my learning never ever 'coming around'....then I do not have a G-d. I may have a religion, but not a G-d of my very own. The Chovos haLevavos would say that if I cannot talk to G-d of my most embarrassing intimate and stupid-sounding fears and issues, then I missed the entire point of Torah and Mitzvos. It's about getting a relationship with Hashem, not about getting religious and not about doing things right. The getting religious and the doing things right is there in order to create and grow a relationship with G-d, period. That's not me, it RMCh"L, R' Bachya ibn Pakuda, the Zohar h"k, and others.

More recovering addicts actually demonstrate to me that they have a real working relationship with their own G-d than normal people do. That is, more recovering addicts even though they are goyim, than normals even though they are frum yidden.

And for me, it was using people on the phone that taught me how to really use Hashem with my heart and mouth.

Willingness to be open and honest with people taught me how I can finally really be open and honest with Hashem. It is not natural to many of us even though we have been believing in Him and davening to Him and doing things for Him with mesiras nefesh for decades!

4- And none of that would have worked (and would still not work) nearly as well had I not been using writing when things started to get kooky in my head and whenever I got really uncomfortable with life, people, Hashem, myself, whatever. Writing and journaling help me gain a clarity that talking to another person does not even touch! Knowing that nothing I am writing will ever fall into anyone else's hands allows me to write from the soul - putting in on paper makes it separate from me. That is powerful. And I write it - not type it. It is totally different for me when it is 'veyad kol odom chosum bo'.

And writing it is nothing if I am not growing through real struggle in relationships with other real live people. Hermits - which we all are inside at times (for our acting out was almost always totally alone, even if we were doing it with another person!) - do not get any better, except inside their own imagination. Gevalt.

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _

So, what actions are you taking to nurture your life without lusting over these past week or two? Are you building these things for yourself? I know of no other way to stay sober. Hashem works through these things.

If it is about not acting out, then Hashem is not there. He's with the life and kedusha, not the avoidance of death and tum'ah.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 22 Sep 2011 16:38 #119952

  • Yosef Hatzadik
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dov wrote on 29 Aug 2011 02:25:

Writing and journaling help me gain a clarity that talking to another person does not even touch! Knowing that nothing I am writing will ever fall into anyone else's hands allows me to write from the soul - putting in on paper makes it separate from me.


Ever since the writing assignments of elementary school, I dislike writing....


Especially when nobody else is gonna read it. There is not even the element of 'showing off'! Why bother writing??
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 22 Sep 2011 17:35 #119957

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Yosef Hatzadik wrote on 22 Sep 2011 16:38:

dov wrote on 29 Aug 2011 02:25:

Writing and journaling help me gain a clarity that talking to another person does not even touch! Knowing that nothing I am writing will ever fall into anyone else's hands allows me to write from the soul - putting in on paper makes it separate from me.


Ever since the writing assignments of elementary school, I dislike writing....


Especially when nobody else is gonna read it. There is not even the element of 'showing off'! Why bother writing??

It may be time to grow up and start writing. Showing off is for the child in us. Let that kid go in peace.
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 26 Sep 2011 21:46 #120420

  • David712
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writing is a big weakness of mine. I wish I would be better at it. thats why i don't get it done enough.

I am in middle of writing a 4th step.. yay.
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 27 Sep 2011 13:25 #120472

hatslocho with the 4th step! and a kesiva vechasima tova!
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Re: An Honest Mouse's Thread 27 Sep 2011 22:53 #120589

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Same to u chabibi! And congrats "david712"!
"Off the 18-wheeler and fine on this tricycle!", "I do not particularly care exactly which "lav" suicide is. I'm not interested in it for other reasons...and you are probably the same."
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