Dear Moshe,

Don't call it a "fall," because it doesn't seem that you've picked yourself up yet from your previous fall(s).  In other words, you're still on the ground.

If you knew that if you were to stay clean just for today, you would be able to remain clean for the rest of your life, but if you were to, c"v, fall, you'd never be able to get out of the rut, wouldn't you make sure to succeed at all costs, just for today, no matter how difficult it was?  That's largely the way it is.  Because if we stay clean for today, why can't we do it tomorrow too (not that we should be thinking about tomorrow before it comes)?  And if we allow ourselves to fall today, what will stop us from doing the same tomorrow?

Have a good clean Shabbos!

Not at all to be nasty, but when you are ready for the kind of help you really need, you'll reach for it. And it'll be there.

If you don't see it, then you'll keep looking for it till you trip over it.

If you are ready and really hopeless.

MosheF wrote on 12 Nov 2010 14:12:

It's still a step in the right direction at least to be aware of this.
You don't necessarily have to call someone from GYE and tell them you're on the verge of m*sturbating.  It also helps to call your mom, your bro, or any old friend and say hello.

--Eye.

MosheF wrote on 10 Nov 2010 21:31:


I believe the quote is closer to, "there is no situation that acting out can't make worse."

I would also point out something which took me a long time to realize - just because i feel the need to escape from life, doesn't mean I have to obey.

One day at a time. One minute at a time. And not just because that'll keep you clean forever. Stay clean one day at a time, because that's all you have. Right now, is the only time you have control over.

silentbattle wrote on 14 Nov 2010 00:12:


Wow. Wow. Oh, and wow!

It's not about holding our breath for one day (at a time) - though everybody has those sort of days sometimes - but the recovery that I have been seeing in myself and in the people I hang around with is totally different.

And just 'staying clean' can't work for me, cuz that's negative sobriety - "not doing xy or z." It might work fine for lots of people. It's just gotta mean something to them to be successful, in my opinion. Rather than just "not doing" something.

Is that helpful or not?

Now I feel kinda emabrassed - I got a "wow" from Dov, but then I'm not sure what he said... :-\ :-[

:D :D :D But thanks, Dov! :D :D :D

silentbattle wrote on 14 Nov 2010 00:12:


Those three lines are priceless. Really. How much would I have given to really know those things 20 years ago, instead of having to suffer for years until finally coming to believe them and be able to live that way a bit. Gevalt. You can't buy treasure that anywhere.

I was able to stay clean motzei shabbos and yesterday thanks to a kind member on this forum.  This morning was going to be a good day, I went online to purchase something in and found myself browsing the lingerie section, why does it look so good.

It looks so good because that's how we are programmed. Asking "why?," is just atzas hayetzer....OK, I don't really call it that, I just call it "stupid". I have no business looking at anything about lingerie or at any womens' magazines, or at anything that I know has "stupidity" in it.

Try this out for size:

"You have no business looking at anything like that, MosheF."

Does it bother you a bit reading me telling you that? Do you feel a voice inside saying "Up yours; and I do have the right to look at anything that I want to look at."

OK....well, if you do, that shows you something. It shows you what kind of an enemy MosheF is up against: a lunatic.

If you didn't feel any such hisnagdus, then it may be time for you to start saying that quiety and calmly to yourself when the opportunity for looking at a 'People' magazine (uchedomeh) is feeling 'magnetic' to your fingers and eyeballs....I do that frequently, and it has been helpful.

MosheF wrote on 15 Nov 2010 15:59:


Repeat after me: "Baruch ata Hashem . . . She'lo asani Isha!"

Now, no more reading the trash that's meant for women! > > >

How about "shelo asani moron"?

It has a nice ring to it and that little chuckle it might produce in the seriousness and desperation of the 'People magazine-moment' may be refreshing!

dov wrote on 15 Nov 2010 23:45:


I feel no hisnagdus and will try it. 

What if he did make a moron? He wouldn't know to ask, "why".  Waaaay to complicated.  He only understands his choices in life are to turn right or turn left.  Even a moron can turn to Hashem.

I know it! 

I want to be a daat moron
tzadikim osen azmom kbehaima