MosheF wrote on 25 Nov 2010 21:44:


The way it helps is when upon noticing those symptons you turn to Hashem surrender your powerlessness and than reach out to someone for help.  Hatzlacha.

forget it keep on trucking! im sure you enjoyed your trip.

Yeah.

Moshe, after the long post from Reb Dov (which I actually liked very much thanks rebba) there is not much left to say, but I'll try to sup up dov's post and 1 more point, just look into urself deeply and ask urself a question, do I really wana stop acting out ? And now be brutally honest  with urself, if the answer is yes I wana be clean than u will find the strength to overcome this, but if the answer is not so 100% clear that u wana/gotta be clean, than (plz don't take this as I'm being nasty, just as a practical tip) take a break of this sobriety and come back when u hit rock bottom, cuz just wanting to be clean for the sake of being clean will not do the trick and u will find urself in the cycle of acting out again & again, ur mind needs to be set straight 1st that u wana stop , and have a legit reason or 2 for it to back up ur recovery and than iy"h u will succeed I have no doubt on that, plz stay with us, absorb some of the stories here, some will break u, some will give u chizak, ask hashem to make u want sobriety

Ur dear friend JIP

Moshe,
Excuse me for saying this, but do you mind me asking how your relationship is with your wife?  Admittedly I’m no expert in this, but I feel as my connection with my wife improves so does my (lack of) acting out.  I know there’s no magic bullet that will cure you, but just wanted to drop this quick thought.

MosheF wrote on 25 Nov 2010 21:44:

AHA!  We don't always have to figure out what's causing the RID.  And, I think, it can often just cause more RID trying to do so.

If nothing comes to mind fairly soon (like, my wife just criticized me for a half hour straight), you can also dis-arm the RID just by acknowledging you have it, and doing something to calm down, to change your mood.  Take a few deep breaths, take a walk, listen to some music.  YOu might figure out what it is, but you might not.  Just let it pass.

jewinprogress wrote on 28 Nov 2010 00:50:


Of course I do, I am desperate to stop acting out, really really desperate.  On the other hand, I think that subconsciously, I may not want to give it up, it feels good to have an escape.

I am trying to figure out what the point in posting is, I don't believe it has helped me stop acting out.  Admittedly, I don't post prior to acting out because I that's when it's the hardest but what do I gain?    Let's take right now for example, it's 9:45am Monday morning, I have a very busy day today but for some reason, I am feeling the itch pretty strongly and statistically, I am going to act out some time today.  What would i post and why, to help me feel more connected or bring my darkest secrets out in the open as Dov likes to say.  I don't feel like it's going to help me at all, any thoughts?

Bottom line, what do I gain by posting to the entire world that I am a pervert who cant's stop staring at [Moderator's note: trigger alert ;)]

A guy goes to his doctor and the doctor tells him you're killing yourself. You're overweight, you're cholesterol is to high, your blood sugar levels are off the charts. You have to completely revamp your diet, cut out snacking, sugary drinks, no more fast foods, you have to exercise and reduce you're stress levels. He comes back a month later you know I only drink diet soda and nothings changed. You told me to cut out sugary drinks and I did but I feel the same way. The doctor says I gave you a whole plan and if you do just one thing how do you expect to change. But Doctor "I'm desperate to feel better, I'm really desperate."  The doctor responds you may say your desperate but until you realize that every bite of unhealthy food you put into your mouth has the potential to kill you. You're not that desperate to stop.

You're right - if you want to keep acting out, then posting here isn't going to stop you - nothing will (short of the FBI knocking on your door, or a divorce....and maybe not even that).

If you do want to stop acting out, then posting here can help you begin to understand yourself better, and plan to improve - to figure out where you went wrong, and what you can do better next time.

You can also join the phone calls.

But that's only if you've decided that this is a path you really don't want - if you realize that going down this path of acting out will kill you.

MosheF wrote on 29 Nov 2010 14:54:

When you can face reality without any fear, it feels even better than acting out.

Keep posting.  Think of it like fishing.  Sometimes you don't catch anything worthwhile, but eventually you do.  Here and there, after a while.  Even if your acting out seems the same, if you've shed a bit more light on your thoughts, if you've found a few pieces of advice that you think "that might work," even if it doesn't right away.  It's little drops, drop after drop, and eventually the cup fills up.

--Eye.

MosheF wrote on 29 Nov 2010 14:54:

Telling people to "post, post, post" is the sime idea , lehavdil, as my old Rosh Yeshivah basically prescribing limud Torah as the responce for all problems. You may think it's really silly, but the man had a point: If you learn a lot and often, your head will be swimming in right-thinking...eventually you will do something right, and get fixed up...hopefully.

I really believe that is the idea behind the litvish run to the beis medrash idea for every problem in life that I saw from him, Z'L. It's not my way, but he was a true gadol and knew what he was talking about.

Posting, sharing, and meetings are only tools. Tools that help me get honest with myself. In the end, that is all that matters. Self-honesty will bring me to G-d - or it won't - but in the end, I will be at rest knowing my own truth. And knowing the truth is not a thinking thing, as you seem to try to say above - I have to know that I have the capacity to be honest with myself in order to be at rest about anything. As you yourself pointed out above:

That is the sound of someone who does not really know themselves. And that's OK. But what you said is a contradiction within yourself - committing, then uncommitting: "Of course I want to quit." - then "well, maybe not."

See what I mean?

Meetings, steps, making calls, posting (for those still more terrified about saying the truth about themselves to another real person than almost anything else...) - all these things can bring us to inner rest/serenity - to admit the truth about ourselves and live accordingly - sanely. But it depends on how we use them.

Maybe none of this is for you at all. I do not know. Maybe I am completely wrong. But what worked for me was going to real meetings with real people because i knew i could not continue using my drug. If you (or anybody is) are not willing to go to any lengths to be truly rid of this garbage, then to me that means only one thing. You are not really ready to be rid of this garbage.

If you agree with me, that I suggest strongly that you stop telling yourself and anyone else that you are ready to let go of it. It is still too precious and sweet to you.

And I cannot blame you in the least, for it was too precious and sweet for me to give it up for 15 years even at the expense of my wife, children, Hashem, His Torah, my Olam haba, my integrity, and lots of other things. I cannot and will not blame you at all if you never give it up and keep using your drug even till you destroy everything in your life. I will not look down on you in any way, and will not even be surprised. In fact, I am surprised that I am sober today, for I do not deserve it, that's for sure.

If what I am saying sounds like I am bashing you, then you are completely missing my point. I apologize for being unclear. Please be mochel me.

On the other hand, if what I am writing here does strike a cord with you and you can hear through my words that I love you (and all addicts) as I love myself - an addict, then please respond.

what rebbereber=DOV is saying is

is

if it is important work at at it

it's impotant to be sober??
is it??

imortant enough to do something about it?

or do you want it to go away like magic?

there is no magic on earth

work your "gatchis" off
b

Yes. And when I put in all the right effort and share, post, attend meetings, calls, whatever and steps and do them all right - it will still require a miracle, because I can't do it.

And that's just for sobriety.

No wonder the tzaddikim look after the whole business is over and admit that the giant mountain they conquered was obviously too big for them. They are shocked! And they should be. Because they can't do it. It is a neis for me to be sober today - and if those are just frum words, then I say it's garbage. It's the truth and I know it - and act like it.

Reb moshe, hope u r feeling stronger, thinking about for the last 48 hours almost non-stop
Let's find a way how to grab u outta there

:-*