Interesting all the feelings you get, when you fall. I feel last night for the first time in a while. I feel so distant from people, work and life. I feel worthless. I feel hopeless. I feel so darn unhappy. I am ashamed at myself. Feel so much lower than everyone else.

Truth,

Thanks for being honest and sharing how you are feeling.
Are you still feeling that way?
Are those feelings taking over you?
Are those feelings defining your truth?
You don't have to let them.

P.S. Do you have your own thread?
P.P.S. You are welcome to this thread whenever for whatever.

truth11 wrote on 11 Aug 2010 16:33:
I hate to kick a man when he's down ... quite literally ... but I did want to share one thought. Namely that:

Feeling worthless and hopeless and ashamed etc etc ... is itself a big aveirah. I don't want to get into questions of bigger or smaller mitzvahs. Every mitzvah and every lav is important. But even so, we are all made in His image. our job is to model that. He would be happy on this earth He made. we must be, also. finding a way to do that, really do that, is a chiyuv. letting a quick session of acting out take that happiness away from us is... yet another aveirah.

We all need to fight against the trap of the Y'H in bringing us first into sin and then into depression over having sinned. It's a double whammy. And it's not what He wants from us.

So where can we go with this thought? Well, let's NOT go into feeling bad on yet a third level of having allowed ourselves to drop down to a second level once having sinned on a first level. (?) No, we have to pull ourselves out of worthless and all the way back to 'gevaldige kinder of the RBS'O.' Somehow.

We've got to get ourselves back to the Garden, as KSN&Y (rock singers) would say (Woodstock). Sorry I can't tell you how, but I know we've got to work toward that goal.

your absolutely right. I've picked myself up, ready to start again. But this time, I don't ant to just  count clean days, I need to improve myself but I'm not sure where to begin? Any ideas?

Okay, truth. You say your name is truth, so I'm gonna try to give you my own version of truth. for me. your mileage may vary. WILL vary. we're all b'tzelem Elokim but we're each made from a different facet / perspective. Having made that disclaimer, here's my own tachlis.

You used the word 'improve' just now. For some reason, I hate the word IMPROVE. It makes it sound as if today isn't good enough. Isn't even good, period. So if today has to IMPROVE into tomorrow before my self-esteem says 'ahhhh,' then the Yetzer has won and I'm stuck in feeling bad about today. Which could ch'v go into feeling bad for each day into infinity. yuk.

I don't know why that word hits me so hard. Surely we're supposed to be growing every day. Growing in our yiddishkeit, Growing in our sensitivity. Growing in our love for our fellow Yid and our beloved and our loved ones.

But maybe a word like "growing" isn't quite so judgmental about whether today is good "enough." I'm not sure.

I fall into that same trap of being way too hard on myself and having my standards for thoughts, speech, actions, etc (cf Tanya) be way too high. But I have to fight against "not good enough yet" and allow myself to feel good about today AND hopeful about tomorrow.

Maybe that's why the guys here talk about taking heart for each single clean day, no matter how many fallen days there have been. And we certainly don't know His ways. Maybe it's not our own failings at work when we fall, but even (warning: kefira here...) what He WANTS us to have in  order to repeat the zchus of walking away from it and growing for tomorrow. We'll never know.

Okay, excuse me for picking on you on the basis of a single word that you may have selected randomly. But it hit such a nerve that I wanted to share in case any of this makes sense to you or anyone else who reads or lurks or participates in these threads. Thanks.

No please say more, I need more feedback from yall. It's just whenever I fall, I realize that I need to take a different approach to dealing with the struggles I have. I hate living day by day just purely staying clean while I myself with my low self esteem continue to live on each day. I read about people who transformed their lives and thus I wonder what steps I can take to get there? Where do I start? is it just about being clean? about surrendering? Also, when I fall I feel like I need a week long waiting period before I feel like a normal human being again. I understand your point and you are 100% true. I need to start viewing my days like that. You've helped me much today but still have many questions to talk about. Kol tuv

"When I fall, I need a week until I feel like a normal human being again" - when I see that in myself I call it "withdrawal".

"I hate living day by day just purely staying clean while I myself with my low self esteem continue to live on each day." I think I feel the same way you do there, and I never needed to stop that game until I really needed to stop. Then I stopped, and that is when the proverbial (whatever) hit the fan. I was using it for comfort about so many things, it was ridiculous. I needed a lot of help and support, and still do.

"Living one day at a time just purely staying clean" is like being a sitting duck. Period. Rather than calling it "living", I'd call it just "not dying". Would we ever consider celebrating the fact that we did not suffocate today? We deserve little credit for making the effort to breath...not just because it's easy and natural, but because it's just "not dying". Mazel Tov.

To me, the poison of the frum sounding attitude that "just struggling to stay clean one day is worth it" is a twisted view of "one day at a time" and is just an excuse for holding tight onto the luxury of being able to use my drug. And I view it as a luxury. Some can afford it, some cannot. I cannot afford it because it screws my life up.

People who are not addicts are busy really living, and this lust garbage distracts them sometimes. For them, getting through the day w/o messing up is definitely worth it. And certainly, a sober day is a precious thing for an addict as well.

But to focus on not using lust all day long is an ill way to live, in my opinion, no matter what kedusha we attach to it. When I wrestle with a person with fleas, bedbugs, and lice, I will definitely end up getting cooties.

That is why after the 1st step is done, none of the 11 other steps have any direct connection to our lust, masturbation, drinking, gambling, shooting up with heroin, or any of that stuff. They are not about getting sober, and certainly not about "drinking". The program people discovered that their entire focus has to be on good-living, or they are dead ducks, guaranteed to "fall" again, soon.

I think you are on a good track, personally.

Hatzlocha!

Thanks Dov, Recently I haven't been doing too well but I have been at home this summer with a Tv and internet without filters. It makes no sense I know. I hear what you are saying about being a dead duck but I still am not sure where exactly do begin aside from getting clean for a nice extended time period. I am way too emabarrased to attend a 12 step meeting. And I am just dying to figure out a starting point to get going with this struggle and start to grow.

I just hate so much that I have this illness. I already have anxiety, depression, stomach issues oyyy  why so many struggles? I feel it to be impossible sometimes. Especially after a fall.

truth11 wrote on 15 Aug 2010 22:56:


Knowing you have an illness, in a way, is a blessing.  You can finally treat this for what it is, and get the help you need.

As long as I thought I was just dealing with a strong yeitzer hara, as long as I believed that a little more Yirat Shamayim and Mussar learning would cure me, I wasn't getting anywhere.

Now, in the past year I have fallen as many times as I used to fall in a month.  But, more importantly, my mind is in a completely different place.  Ironlically, because I accepted that I am addicted to lust, I am no longer obsessed with it!  I have started along a new path, uncovering the underlying issues, and healing my aliments closer to their roots.  Lust is merely a symptom.

BTW, do you have your own thread?  It would probably be easier for you (and other people) to keep track of your thoughts, and to help you along, if you had your own space for it.

Good luck.

(And, hi to you, too, sturrgle!),

  --Eye.

I have a problem with porn and masturbation and,
like some others who have joined the ranks here,
I have same-sex attractions (ssa).

I am working on both the behavioral aspect
of quitting the cycle of the aforementioned actions,
and the deeper psychological aspect of the attractions.

imcho anochi be tzarah. Does this mean that u r working on the ssa through therapy?

Yedidya,

Yes. I am working on the ssa through therapy.

...just a big Sturggle fan registering in for roll-call.

Hi there, amigo.

Hi there Dov.
Great to hear from you.
It has been a while.

B"H, things have been very busy of late,
and quite good as well.
No, not dating anyone now,
other stuff can be good too.

It's Elul, RH and YK are around the corner...,
getting ready...

it is refreshing to hear that someone is actually thinking about Elul and Yomim Noraim with some seriousness. I was reading in a sefer Yemei Ratzon that our approach to the avodas ha yom is to deeply desire to be zoche to serve the Melech Malchai Ha Melachim by sincerely  declaring his Greatness  through Malchiyus,Zichronos and Shoforos and  by yearning  for Kavod Shamayim to be spread far and wide.
on a different note I was thinking (may have seen this idea somewhere) about the Kol Shofar (shvarim and truah) being the crying of the neshama from the pain of our aveiros!