CA: I wasn't trying to minimize your problem or your 'down' feelings over it. I apologize for any pain. I was merely trying to point out the the human situation can get a little ironic sometimes.

The fact there's somehow, some kind of a link between bittul zman (wasting time) and bittul zera (wasting something else) doesn't sound so surprising. Not only re what's tempting when we have 'free' time, but also in the connection that Hashem probably had something else in mind when He gave us those things along with mitzvot instructing us how best to use them.

But the irony of figuring out how we waste time by wasting time (ok, you might not see your research in that light, but maybe others might)... well, people sure do get funny sometimes.

That's all I meant. Hope that helps clarify. Or at least put a bandaid on the booboo.

i understood, i know you don't mean to insult me and i don't take it as such, what i meant was that the i dea that i wasted time to find out how i waste time though ironic is exactly the problem! i don't know what to do! I am a bad person who will go no where in life because of por* addiction and now this! and my mom wants to know why i am depressed, and she tries to make me feel better when instead i should be getting 1000 lashes! i hate myself! i am seriously concidering telling my folks about both of my problems but i know i will wimp out.

OK, here it is...i am seriously considering telling my parents, there have been a few things which lead me to believe that I can, first off my mom is really worried as to why i am depressed now and she told me i could tell her the truth...i really believe her.
i love my parents i just don't know how to aproch this...would my mom understand the idea of me being addicted to por*? i don't know, would my dad? maybe a little more, would my mom understand how my procrastination relates to my por* addiction? i don't know would my dad? i don't know. i have hundreds of questions i have like would someone here talk to themm after i told them to explain it to them? i have no idea if that even help.

I think some parents, especially moms, would be devastated to hear that.

How about telling your parents that you discovered that article about procrastination and it describes you exactly ? Maybe they'll even pay (if you want) to go to a therapist to discuss this more ?

(In other words, don't bring up the other stuff - just the procrastination).

Also never tell yourself that you're a bad person. Maybe your behavior was/is bad, but not your essence. That's how we can love every Jew (including loving yourself !) despite what they did.

(I need to log off now and won't be back till tomorrow. Good luck whatever you do, but I think you should get more people's opinions before you make any decision. Maybe 7up could tell you how your mom may react if you told her about GYE. If you're a procrastinator then you can definitely wait till tomorrow, right ? ).

devastated?  :'(

Chazak Amenu wrote on 03 Jun 2010 17:44:


STOP! YOU'RE MAKING ME CRY. I'M NOT KIDDING.

THIS MIGHT BE DEPRESSION SPEAKING BUT IT SURE AS HECK BETTER NOT BE THE REAL 'YOU' THINKING THIS WAY.

You are a beautiful soul who is working on issues that are "way above your pay grade," as they say in big corporations. This stuff is big, it is tricky, it can feel heavy, but you are a gibbur taking on work as a teen that folks 3-4 TIMES your age are just arriving here to do.

"...a bad person who will go nowhere in life...." Dude, your worldview is upside down, -- you're the one already GOING somewhere in life. So, stop whining and get to work.

And PS: Opinions will differ, but I'd vote for your telling folks the whole picture. Procrastination, p*n, m*n, everything. 1) It really does help a parent figure out whether some outside help is called for, and if so which kind. 2) It also forges an adult bond that can continue into your marriage, fatherhood, etc -- in a good way. 3) And finally, they either suspect something like this or something way worse -- might as well get it out of the way. For me, I'd be a semi-wimp and write them a long letter just as I'm going away for the weekend, but that's because I'm sometimes a little conflict-avoidant. ... but you do what you think is right. Feel free to run your proposed plan by the chevra!

as a fellow teen, i feel obligated to speak up.

First of all, know that people here (and everywhere) are rooting for you. Honestly, although being sad and depressed has never affected my life substantially, it can rarely be something that is beneficial, and never when you're trying to overcome any adversity, such as this struggle. "Tracht Gut - Vet Zein Gut"-Think good and it will be good. Whether you just flunked a test or are waiting to hear back from a yeshiva , having a positive mindset can make all the difference in how the situation turns out.

As for whether or not you should tell your parents, i see three viable options that i would take (as i am in a similar situation):
1) tell your parents (or maybe even just one for the time being) face to face in a private meeting;
2) Dont tell your parents and see if GUE can do the trick; or
3) write your parents a letter explaining your situation and anything else you feel is necessary and place it somewhere where they will get it and you will be able to talk after they read it alone.

I'd consider each option, especially how you think your parents will react. If you plan to tell them, i would personally recommend writing the letter, as its helped me communicate things to my parents in the past. With the letter, you could revise and revise unti
l you have it down perfectly and i'm sure the GUE community would help you out if you wanted it.

And one other thing i want to address. I would hesitate to call this an addiction (at least to p&m) for someone of our age. it is very possible with internet addiction. but at the same time, with p&m, i am unsure (for most teens) whether or not this is a true addiction or a hormone-driven phase. perhaps that is just a synonym for addiction but i think age (and puberty) certainly effects (y)our situation. if calling yourself an addict is part of whats getting you down, maybe think of what i just posted. if not, maybe its still relevant. regardless, know that whatever you're feeling and what you decide, you'll have support here and from Hashem.

I got this from a while ago either from tikunhabrit.com or briskodesh.org 2 sites that I was viewing before this one. Both are GREAT sites also. This is not mine but it is a good read! Telling your parents can be the best thing or the worst thing. I don't know who your parents are and I don't know how they would respond. Don't jump to do anything, think about the benefits and possible detriments if any.
"There is a reason why you personally, more then many of your friends have such difficult tests to overcome and constantly face. You are not the normal run of the mill person. Hashem has a lot of good things in store for you. The Zohar explains that before salvation and good tidings, a person might experience some hardship. It might seem impossible to handle what surrounds you on all side but you must always remember the powerful words of the Baal Shem Tov’s father, “Hashem is always with you”. Abraham was a very important man with a bright future and therefore he faced before him tasks so difficult in which few could pass. Issac, Jacob, Moses, David, Job and so many other great people where stuck in situations in which there was little light to see their way out. Hashem will always be there in that light and so will complete salvation. What makes things even more difficult is that sometimes one might see two lights instead of just the one. This second light sometimes glows with gold dust and only ends up being a pit. This path is the easy way out as it heads right towards the gold color but when you pick it up, you realize it was all for nothing and fake. Once we get used to running after gold dust its sometimes very difficult to stop ourselves. Our Sages have said, one mitzvah leads to a second mitzvah and one avayra, sin leads to a second one. Once you fall into sin it becomes easier and easier to fall into it again. Your mind becomes completely programmed to fall into the same trap over and over again. The only way out is to reprogram your mind. Next time, instead of reaching for the gold dust in the most trying, lownly and depressed strait you are in, reach for the jewels! Hashem and the Torah are there for you. You must cling to them with whatever little strength you have left. When Hashem starts lifting you up don’t let go like you are so accustomed of doing. Reprogram yourself to hold on tight to your faith, as you know you need to. Salvation is in Hashem and know one else. Know this in your heart and act upon it. Maybe you are feeling singled out by Hashem to go through such trying situations and the real truth is that you have been singled out. You have been chosen and I don’t just mean to be a Jew with 613 mitzvos. There is something very unique about you personally. Inside you, is a heart of gold and a wanting to do such good things for the world. Your soul is something extra holy and you have so much to give. Therefore, you have been singled out by the Satan more then others. If you want to win, search yourself for your good points. Make a list of these things in your mind or on paper. Don’t give up and don’t ever despair. When faced with the two lights next time, take the more practical one. The one that will shine brightly for eternity. There is where you will find your deceased relatives and everything good. Go for the permanent fix rather then the imaginary temporary one. So what if you can’t? You just don’t have the strength. Then run! Escape in any way you know how to avoid the sin. The best place to run is in the Torah. If you can’t get yourself to learn then leave the room and maybe take a walk outside. It was decreed that you face this situation at this exact moment in this particular place but if you leave it for a few minutes the urge to sin might completely pass. Do the best you can; you have a lot more strength still left inside you then you might think. Look at all the good things you do to serve Hashem and to help others with your time and money."

May Hashem give you the strength to continue strong!

Shlomo wrote on 03 Jun 2010 22:23:


Shlomo:  thanks SO SO SO much for adding that point. Old folks like me think of the word "addiction" as being something a little different than what I'm fairly certain is going on here -- a teen who's discovered some corners of the 'net and some ways to relieve se*ual tension. The availability of p*n, and the concept of addiction, are simply different than a generation ago. So CA, there is NO NEED for you to hang onto the term addict and CERTAINLY no need to use it with your parents.

I know the whole chevra would be happy to look at a note, or at talking points for a face-to-face, or whatever. Post whatever you like. I'll be back around 10:30 or 11:00 tonight and will look for whatever's here.

Wow…all of you guys are amazing…I have been feeling down and depressed obviously, I feel like this whole thing is becoming too much but I know I have to keep going there are no more options.
First off I want to say thank you it seems to me that I have to remember how much people do care about me and I probably owe everyone an apology for saying otherwise…sorry. I am so grateful to be able to “know” you guys and have you as friends and mentors.
Right now I am still feeling depressed but certainly going to do charity work has helped me because it has made me feel less worthless and that no matter how small I can still have an effect on people in a positive way. Then I come home and I see all of the posts I received from all of you and that certainly helped.
Briut, I agree I think that if I do in fact spill “the beans” I would spill the whole can and not just one part of it. I realize that both my procrastination and my watching of por* and my masturbatin* are linked to each other there is not one without the other.
When I say outside help I mean someone from GYE who is experienced like the guard, you, Dov, DovInIsrael etc. whoever would be willing to talk to my folks who has seen my story and talked to me as well as knowing a lot about this whole process, I would even ask 7up if she could talk to my mom so she could understand better than a man could. 
I don’t want to get ahead of myself, I am not sure I am telling my parents yet it is something I am seriously considering, it is not something that is easy to do by any means (that is an understatement). I don’t want to get ahead of myself there, though I might work on what I would say or write anyway as a backup plan, like Shlomo said it might be wise to see if “GUE can do the trick”. I think if I feel more trapped than I did today than I would have no choice but if I am able to stop the por* and masturbatin* as well as the procrastinating I would not want to go quite so far, if anyone can help me with some Ideas as to how I can formulate a plan for the morning so I don’t procrastinate (which is normally what leads to falls) it would be wonderful! 
As to if I would write a letter or talk I am not going to write about that now because it would take too much time I have a lot of positives and negative I need to share.
I call this an addiction because I don’t know what else to call it, there is a lack of a name for it. I should call it notquiteaddictionhabbithormonegrowinguptomasturbatio*pornograph*? Addiction is just a lot easier to say.
This is the absolute shortest I can  make this right now as my thread progresses this stuff will probably be expanded on. Once again thank you to Commando, Briut, Oneday, Shlomo and of course Hashem because with all of you coming to lift me up when I am “down” (sounds like something Briut would say) I know I can beat this whether ultimately my parents will get involved I have no idea now, because sure one could seriously consider it but actually writing it or saying it is a whole new animal. Thank you again guys.
Ps. I am about to watch the first game of the NBA finals so hopefully that will cheer me up as well a little bit.

Go Celtics!

i guess one way i like to look at this battle is almost as a distraction. its a distraction from what Hashem wants of us. its a distraction from time that could be better spent, with family, studying Torah, developing bonds with friends. Its a distraction from what really matters in life. in reality, this term can be applied to everyone in this struggle, except the simple reality is that we havent been exposed to this struggle as long as others. but i suppose that when trying to explain this to a parent, distraction still doesnt quite cut it.

hmm....gotta expand my vocabulary a little for this one.

Shlomo wrote on 04 Jun 2010 03:08:

Shlomo, I think your vocabulary is just perfect on this one. So's your sentiment. You've put your finger right on it, in my opinion. And I think the message "plays" better from one teen to another, so I'm just listening in... and learning... and marveling at the support and concern that's going on all around. Mi k'amecha Yisroel, goy echad ba'aretz.

I am not so sure distraction cuts it either, it seems its a path to failure, i need to over come these obstacles and make them into a slight distraction on the way to a great Hashem serving life.